LandlordZONE

19

Apr, 2014

Saturday

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    192

    Default Unadopted private road- who owns, who maintains?

    Situation- various houses on private road. Private road has no clear ownership (deeds are apparently silent on the matter of who owns it). Repairs urgently needed to part of this road as part of the carriageway has collapsed.

    If responsibility is unclear, would 3rd party liability insurance cover an individual householder against claims from others (such as other householders or highways agancy/council)? Would insurance cover the householder if liability WAS established?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    39,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miffy View Post
    Situation- various houses on private road. Private road has no clear ownership (deeds are apparently silent on the matter of who owns it). Repairs urgently needed to part of this road as part of the carriageway has collapsed.

    If responsibility is unclear, would 3rd party liability insurance cover an individual householder against claims from others (such as other householders or highways agancy/council)? Would insurance cover the householder if liability WAS established?
    Were the houses all built/developed/sold by the same developer/builder/owner at about the same time? Check that party's prior title deeds to see what land was originally acquired. Perhaps the road is within the acquisition- if so, it may have been retained by that party.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link) or use Topic Expert page.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Apparently it dates back to before 1876 belonging to some Earl who's line has died out. Most of the houses are converted buildings from the original Hall (which is now also split into 2 houses).

    Only 7 deeds have been forthcoming, so it is possible that someone is not admitting to the road being "theirs" but enquiries at the Land registry have not revealed anything.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    39,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miffy View Post
    Apparently it dates back to before 1876 belonging to some Earl who's line has died out. Most of the houses are converted buildings from the original Hall (which is now also split into 2 houses).

    Only 7 deeds have been forthcoming, so it is possible that someone is not admitting to the road being "theirs" but enquiries at the Land registry have not revealed anything.
    1. In which county is it? Special now-closed Deeds Registries may be available (but only in the pre-1974 Yorkshire or pre-1940 Middlesex).
    2. Try inspecting each house's deeds. Old Abstracts of Title should explain what the Earl previously acquired. Everything not sold-off must still be in his successors' hands.
    3. Why not contact a local archivist re who are the Earl's successors/beneficiaries?
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link) or use Topic Expert page.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Thanks for the ideas! I will suggest them to the residents association.

    At the moment the chairman is thinking of going for adverse possession over the road in the name of a trust he wants us all to set up.

    Trouble is, he wants to make us all liable to the trust in perpetuity for the costs etc but I am not keen on being subject to the dictat of the trust over matters such as how much expense to go to or indeed what the money should be expended upon. Figures being bandied about are in the region of 20 thousand (gulp!) per household-hence I was wondering if insurance might be a safety net. However, I guess the ins company will want to run for the hills if I approach them....

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    39,411

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Miffy View Post
    At the moment the chairman is thinking of going for adverse possession over the road in the name of a trust he wants us all to set up.
    That won't work. No one or more of the frontagers can have been in adverse possession of the road, as they all use it. The most that might be claimed is that, if there are no explicit easements in the first sale deeds (one per house0, easements by presription might have arisen.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link) or use Topic Expert page.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Well he thinks the trust can go for adverse possession AFTER all residents agree to sign over any and all rights (and of course responsibilities to repair) we MAY or MAY NOT have over the road to the trust.

    Its all very unclear who can be said to be responsible. When we bought the property, our solicitor told us that the previous householder had always maintained the part of the roadway in front of the house and that we should proceed on this basis. We have no problem with this but whilst we DO in addition feel some moral obligation to those who maintain that all users of the road should contribute to the repair/upgrading of another section of it, we are not keen on getting sucked in to some grandiose scheme for perfection along the entire roadway (when only a small part of it has become damaged). We are leaning towards a "patch job" as and when necessary rather than a 20k black hole.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    39,411

    Default

    I agree. Do not voluntarily agree to expenses; rely on what the deeds say; and ask your own solicitor what indemnity insurance he/she procured for your protection at time of house purchase.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link) or use Topic Expert page.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Hampshire
    Posts
    1,047

    Default

    Well he thinks the trust can go for adverse possession
    I can't really see how a trust can go for adverse possession of a road that is being used by lots of people. It may be possible for individual residents to acquire easements by prescription but I cannot see how a possessory title can be obtained to a road.
    RICHARD WEBSTER

    As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful (provided it relates to property in England & Wales) but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    192

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jeffrey View Post
    I agree. Do not voluntarily agree to expenses; rely on what the deeds say; and ask your own solicitor what indemnity insurance he/she procured for your protection at time of house purchase.
    Heh heh- which bit of my ramble are you agreeing with? As for indemnity insurance, I am not aware that any was arranged (it doesn't say so in our paperwork). Could such a thing be arranged now and how would we go about it?

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •