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Jul, 2014

Thursday

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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    help@tenancyservices.co.uk
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    You're not being stupid, this forum would soon die if everybody knew what they were supposed to do.

    Can you clarify tough - do you want any of the current tenants to remain in the property?

    Lets say they're A, B, C & D and tenant A has given notice, do you want the new tenants to be B, C, D & (new) E
    or do you want all new E, F, G & H?

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    14,115

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    The T's 'notice' has no legal effect whatsoever. It does not end the joint tenancy.

    You cannot grant a new tenancy to a different T until the existing tenancy has ended. The current T is A+B+C+D; if you grant a tenancy to A+B+C+E it's a completely different T and a completely new tenancy.

    Unless all the joint Ts, A+B+C+D, vacate at fixed term expiry, then a statutory periodic tenancy will arise, replacing the expired fixed term tenancy. As now, the T will remain as A+B+C+D.

    The joint Ts are under no obligation to vacate at fixed term expiry.

    The only way you can unilaterally end the tenancy is by serving valid notice, applying for a possession order, and getting a court bailiff to execute the order.

    Quote Originally Posted by NewbieLandlady View Post
    Am I right in saying that the landlord can just tell them to leave at the end of the notice period/end of lease? Surely that's justifiable as they could also just leave, too?
    No, you are wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by NewbieLandlady View Post
    Ok, so what do I do in the case that the tenant that submitted a "I don't want to be here after the end of the tenancy" letter, isn't available nor responds to correspondence, and the others stay but I don't want them to , but want someone else to move in?
    You cannot prevent a statutory periodic tenancy arising except by agreeing a new fixed term contract with A+B+C+D (but obviously, 'D' isn't going to agree). The only unilateral action you can take is to serve notice under s.21, and apply for a possession order if you wish to evict.

    The joint Ts have various options:

    1) They could all vacate at fixed term expiry, thus ending the tenancy.
    2) One or more of them could serve notice to quit after the tenancy becomes periodic. When a tenancy is periodic, a single joint T's notice *will* end the whole joint tenancy, for everyone, at expiry. (And see post #4).
    3) They could take in a lodger to help with the rent in place of the joint T, 'D', who is or has moved out. 'D' would remain as one of the legal tenants.

  3. #13

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    How could they take in a lodger when there's a no sub-letting clause? Sorry but I either want them to just either sign the new lease and be done with it, as they want, with the new person and then serve them notice at the beginning of the new lease (as I know can be done!) so that they HAVE to move out at the end of the 6 month period or get shot of them altogether. They're making my life a misery and I've been more than generous with them on too many counts.

    Thanks though - it looks like a section 21 , possibly!

  4. #14

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    Thank you !

    I've got it now. My worst case scenario isn't too bad after all.

    Joyous. THank you so much again for all your help! I'm so getting an agency to deal with the bs that I've put up with over the past months in future...

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,146

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    The tenants DO NOT HAVE TO MOVE OUT because you served them a notice.

    What you can do now, since they all want to get a new tenancy agreement, is to get them to all sign a surrender to the tenancy. They don't have to sign that, or a new tenancy agreement if they don't want to.

    Otherwise you can serve a section 21 notice now, or anytime. Or wait for one of the joint tenants to serve notice as soon as the periodic tenancy starts. Problem with that is that it cannot expire until the end of the second month of the periodic tenancy.
    All views posted reflect my personal opinion only and do not constitute professional advice which I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to provide.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    14,115

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewbieLandlady View Post
    How could they take in a lodger when there's a no sub-letting clause?
    A lodger is generally not given exclusive possession of his room so it is not subletting. In any case, even if the T breaches a term prohibiting lodgers, there is little a LL could do about it other than to apply for possession.

    Sorry but I either want them to just either sign the new lease and be done with it, as they want, with the new person
    You can't grant a new tenancy before the existing one has ended. If A+B+C+D and you were to sign a Deed of Surrender, then you'd be free to grant a new tenancy. http://www.tenancyservices.co.uk/pro...d-of-surrender

    ...and then serve them notice at the beginning of the new lease (as I know can be done!) so that they HAVE to move out at the end of the 6 month period
    You're still not getting it.

    I repeat, the only way you can unilaterally end a tenancy is by serving valid notice, applying for a possession order, and getting a court bailiff to execute the order.

    A s.21 notice is not a notice to quit, and does not end the tenancy nor oblige the T to vacate. Serving notice does NOT mean that the tenant HAS to move out.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    14,115

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewbieLandlady View Post
    I'm so getting an agency to deal with the bs that I've put up with over the past months in future...
    An agent is not a guaranteed solution. Agents can set up with no qualifications whatsoever, and the only way that you can monitor whether an agent is doing his job properly is to know more than the agent.

    I use an ARLA member agent, well-established firm, for tenant-find only, and I frequently find they mess up in terms of legalities. I wouldn't dream of passing on management of a rental property to an agent.

    As LL, you are the legally liable party. You are the one who the T claims against in the event of failing to comply with legalities etc. Do you really want to place yourself at the mercy of a completely unqualified agent?

    Buy a book or two on landlord/tenant law, e.g. http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Complete...0416563&sr=8-1

  8. #18

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    Thanks all for your help. Lack of sleep doesn't help my brain get things in the right place BUT I do "get" it now.

    Again, stupid questions will stop very soon. It doesn't help that my tenants seem to not know what's in their lease and I have to keep quoting and commenting on what each bit means as if they were infants.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,179

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewbieLandlady View Post
    Thanks all for your help. Lack of sleep doesn't help my brain get things in the right place BUT I do "get" it now.

    Again, stupid questions will stop very soon. It doesn't help that my tenants seem to not know what's in their lease and I have to keep quoting and commenting on what each bit means as if they were infants.
    Nor do you seem to understand the implicit legalities of the Lease you are attempting to explain. The clue may be in your screen name. A case of the blind leading the blind?
    Anyway it is past midnight so the die is cast.

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