Advice needed on complicated situation

[thesaint]

Any such clause regarding termination that might be in fixed term tenancy agreement no longer apply in SPT.
So landlord just needs to point out that fact by quoting HA 1988 s.5(3)(e).

I understand that.
A tenant cannot

[westminster]

Let's say the tenant gave a landlord 4 weeks notice, and moved out. The landlord then went to court and applied for rent arrears that accrued to the end of the normal statutory notice period.

It is my belief that the landlord would not win.

I would agree if this were a sole tenancy, as OP has clearly accepted the defective notice.

However, you seem to be forgetting that the issue here is that it's a joint tenancy, where the husband has given notice and moved out, and the wife (a 'foreign national' with no income) remains, with apparently no plans to move out.

If the husband's notice is defective, it is arguably not binding on the wife-JT, in which case the tenancy wouldn't end. If it is binding on the wife-JT, then on notice expiry the whole tenancy ends, and OP could treat her as a trespasser and apply for a possession order on that basis.

[thesaint]

Post #21 seems to have not gone through correctly. Please ignore

[westminster]

I would argue that there is no SPT and that by the above a new contract for a contractual periodic tenancy with a 4 week notice period from tenant was agreed orally.
It might not be easy to prove, though, if no-one followed up in writing to confirm this agreement.

Even if one could succeed in arguing that husband-JT and LL orally agreed a contractual periodic tenancy to replace the fixed term tenancy, what about the wife-JT? It would require both JTs to agree, not just one.

[jjlandlord]

Even if one could succeed in arguing that husband-JT and LL orally agreed a contractual periodic tenancy to replace the fixed term tenancy, what about the wife-JT? It would require both JTs to agree, not just one.

Unless she would come forward and say that she never agreed to a shorter notice period, which is to her advantage, I don't think this is an issue. She can just confirm that she agreed.
Issue is that there is no evidence.

[westminster]

Unless she would come forward and say that she never agreed to a shorter notice period, which is to her advantage, I don't think this is an issue. She can just confirm that she agreed.
Issue is that there is no evidence.

The issue is whether or not husband-JT's notice is binding on wife-JT.

It is not to her advantage if it is, because she will be immediately exposed to eviction after husband-JT's notice expires.

Husband-JT's notice is unquestionably defective if the tenancy is an SPT, not the purported contractual periodic tenancy to which wife-JT did not expressly agree.

[Old Kent Road]

Just a little follow up to this thread for closure.

I took the advice on board and served a Section 21. Ended up getting fooled into using one of the companies that appears near the top of the listings in Google thinking it would hold more weight, etc. After paying the unnamed band of numpties around £60 and having to argue the toss with them over poor English (they had addressed the letter to 'Dear Sirs', even though both male and female tenants had been reference above on the same page), it finally got served. If I ever find myself in a situation where I need to serve a Section 21 again, I will be doing it myself!

Once served, the female T who had been avoiding my calls and not responding to any of my texts or emails (regarding signing a new contract), decided to break 'radio silence'. I got bombarded with a string of angry messages. I think she misinterpreted the Section 21 as a forceful eviction, but as she ignored any of my invitations to discuss things in a civilised manner, I left her to it... and continued to receive angry messages. She even went as far as accusing me of harassment. Well, she sent me an email entitled "This is what you have done" with no message, but a screenshot of the definition of harassment. The wife and I had a little chuckle at that, as we've done no such thing.

She paid the first month's rent of the Section 21 notice period without issue. I thought things might have continued amicably. When she hadn't paid the 2nd month on time, I sent a text reminding her that the rent was due on the 10th and she was now in arrears. She apologised and said she would sort it out that day. She then followed up with another text to ask "shall I just pay for next month's rent on the 10th as well?" (ie: the day after the expiry of the Section 21). When I responded to clarify the purpose of the Section 21 and told her that she still needed to be out by 9th May, I received another barrage of abuse. She couldn't understand why I "still wanted her out" after she had proved the previous month that she could pay the rent.

Anyway, found out from a neighbour in the flats that they had seen her move out a week or so later. I went to check the mail at the flat (external mailbox in communal hallway) and found the keys in an envelope. Treading cautiously after reading some horror stories on here, I sent her an email to ask if she had returned the keys and to confirm that she had moved out. Thankfully she responded promptly to tell me she had moved out.

And as i'm sure you can all imagine, she did not leave the flat in the condition it was when she moved in!

Lesson learned! Thanks all for your advice.

[thesaint]

In future, just ask us on here on how to serve a Sec 21. Do not pay for this service. Ever.
Minimal information is required, and we would have given everything you required in minutes.