Auctioneer not guaranteeing access to Surveyor

**NewbeeLandlord** · 11-02-2013 13:41 PM

Am trying to understand what are the obligations of an Auctioneer to a property bought at an auction. We havent seen the property before we purchased and would like to see the inside of it ourselves, but they are not even guaranteeing the access to a surveyor. Is this legal ? What are our rights as the purchaser. 10% has been paid and their fees has also been cashed by the Auction house.

Am new to all this so please bear with me.

NewbeeLandlord

**theartfullodger** · 11-02-2013 14:58 PM

So you've bought (stuck hand up & said yes please, me..!!) without seeing inside or having a survey done...

And were those conditions made clear in the advert or catalogue or terms & conditions?? (Very probably...).

If so I see no reason why such conditions are not legal: Is the property tenanted/occupied?? Do you have the over 90% as ready funds?? (Hope so as you are almost certainly liable for it..).

Gentle negotiation, persuasion & guile is possibly your best approach...

Cheers!

(Yes, I've bought at auction without having seen inside beforehand... That one worked out, many others may not though.....)

**George F White** · 11-02-2013 15:08 PM

If the property is vacant then I agree with theartfullodger that constructive negotiation is the way forward. Has the auctioneer/agent explained why they won't permit access to the property - as you have already paid your deposit and are probably liable for the balance to deny you access to the property for no apparent reason does seem a little strange.

**NewbeeLandlord** · 11-02-2013 16:13 PM

They are saying it would physically impossible for them to show properties around. Moreover as they have no obligation it appears they are not keen. Am wondering what can I offer to make them take a trip to show me the property even if for a quick 10 minute tour of the inside.

Understand I am stuck (as theartfuldodger) has said. Thats why I am exploring what options I do have here.

Any ideas of guile/persuasion will be helpful.

TY to theartfuldodger as well.

Newbee.

**theartfullodger** · 11-02-2013 16:18 PM

Lodger not dodger... I don't dodge...

Do you need a mortgage & is that why you want a survey?? If so do you think you have time to sort things, even if access can be arranged??

Think I grovel, offer money (perhaps significant - how big is the deal??) and ask - nay, beg, if anyone can accompany you (+ a nice lunch??) or can they suggest anyone who might be able to help??

What did the brochure/details say about access - did they mention a local estate agent?? Try them if so,...

Do you (you surely must..) know who owns it ?? You could approaching them....

I take it you've tried going round & knocking on the door??

Is it tenanted, vacant, ie what status??

If you are really stuck options are probably kissing goodbye to the 10% or raising the ££ somehow, buying & hoping it works out...

Hey, ain;t life fun!!! Best regards, hopes it works out...

Cheers!

**NewbeeLandlord** · 12-02-2013 10:30 AM

Apologies for the typo. Unintentional.
The flat was marketed as tenanted for a good rent thats the reason we bought it. We have finally 'saw' people in the flat yesterday and have left a flyer to call us back. They havent called back as yet.
We were worried its not tenanted and not rentable or just a dump. Now that we know someone is still renting the place we feel at ease. Not so much keen to get inside. We will complete and not lose the great property in a great location. Just go through the motions of arranging mortgage.

We have an agreement in principle and using TMW for a speedy offer. No mention of access or otherwise in the clauses with Auction house. Was trying to see whats the legal position. My solicitor/conveyancer confirmed we dont have rights to access the property until we complete now.

TMW with hefty fees have good BTL rates but also a speedy offer process. Lets hope so. We do have emergency funds to purchase but am told by the mortgage broker that once bought with cash its not possible to mortgage for 6 months? So would prefer to avoid that route assuming the 6 month rule is true.

Thanks so much for the advice/responses.

Newbee

**theartfullodger** · 12-02-2013 11:01 AM

Be very careful: Assuming it is tenanted the key question is when the tenants 1st moved in.... depending on that (don't take auctioneers word for it - ask tenants..) then they have an AST (good, easy eviction..) AT (bad, harder eviction) or a "Regulated tenancy" (probably terrible rent, effectively impossible to evict).

That the tenant has signed a shiny new AST may be irrelevant as the shiny new AST may be invalid..

Be aware as I'm sure you are aware that the place-you-bought is the tenant's home, it is the tenant's property (see...)
http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/201...its-still-his/
And tenant does not have to let you in without a court order (which as you are not current owner you won't get & anyway will likely take months....) See also this thread on landlord access...
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ion-or-viewing

Cheers!

**NewbeeLandlord** · 12-02-2013 14:19 PM

Originally Posted by theartfullodger

Be very careful: Assuming it is tenanted the key question is when the tenants 1st moved in.... depending on that (don't take auctioneers word for it - ask tenants..) then they have an AST (good, easy eviction..) AT (bad, harder eviction) or a "Regulated tenancy" (probably terrible rent, effectively impossible to evict).

That the tenant has signed a shiny new AST may be irrelevant as the shiny new AST may be invalid..

Be aware as I'm sure you are aware that the place-you-bought is the tenant's home, it is the tenant's property (see...)
http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/201...its-still-his/
And tenant does not have to let you in without a court order (which as you are not current owner you won't get & anyway will likely take months....) See also this thread on landlord access...
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ion-or-viewing

Cheers!

Interesting angle on the tenants already in place.

The property is let on an AST for a appropriate market rent(verified by local estate agents). Its let for a year. The notice to get the property vacated(section 24 a if i remember) has already been served and signed by the tenant. This is post dated to coincide with the end of AST (sep 2012 and sep 2013).

We can only assume the rent has been paid regulary.

Am no longer worried about access to the flat as I assume the flat is liveable and rentable, which was my main concern. As someone deems its livable and rentable I no longer need access to the flat at this point in time.

Hope that clarifies my position now with your input ofcourse.

**theartfullodger** · 12-02-2013 14:42 PM

Good, probably all fine BUT, still, beware...

Just because there's an AST doesn;t mean they don't have the original tenancy from 1982.. (unless the place was built 2006...).

It's a "Section21" and, when you become new landlord I think you will need to issue a new S21.

An S21 is not a notice to quit, does not end the tenancy, does not require the tenant to go. For that you will need a (correct & valid) S21 & court action (some months, some time..). Some 30% of S21s are invalid btw...

However many tenants leave on the requested date anyway, not realising their rights...

Alternatively try bribery...

**Lawcruncher** · 13-02-2013 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by NewbeeLandlord

The notice to get the property vacated(section 24 a if i remember) has already been served and signed by the tenant. This is post dated to coincide with the end of AST (sep 2012 and sep 2013).

I cannot quote any authority, but I fear that a post-dated notice is invalid. I certainly would not want to have to rely on one. Serve another notice (it's section 21) after completion just to make sure you are in the clear. Get your solicitor to do it as part of the job he is doing now.