party wall agreements

**WarwickGrad** · 09-01-2013 22:41 PM

Hi
I'm building a loft conversion
I'm planning to build a brick wall to put the RSJ beam on, without using the neighbours wall
Am i right in assuming i wont require a party wall agreement for this as i'm making no use of the neighbours wall?
Many thanks

**mk1fan** · 10-01-2013 13:44 PM

If it's the neighbour's wall then the Party Wall Act won't cover it anyway.

Pedantry aside.

So you're planning on building a two-storey high wall wholly on your land, with foundations no deeper than that of [either your neighbour's or the Party Wall] the existing separating wall to support an rsj just to avoid serving Party Wall Notice and possible Award?

**WarwickGrad** · 10-01-2013 20:45 PM

Weeeeeell not exactly
Maybe i'll go a little on their side lol
But what they dont know wont hurt them right? Oh dear this msg sounds controvertial doesnt it, i can sense the naysayers on the ready to fire back with replies condemning my words
My issue with party walls is that i paid one guy over £1000s - all he did was take a few picutres, and send out a file - then i had to pay the neighbours - a pointless exercise and expense
So i refuse to pay from now on
My understanding is the neighbour cant get an injunction out to stop me once the RSJ and wall is up
Am i right in this respect?
With regards to causing damage to their wall/ property, zero chance, i've done that much building work (already answered the naysayers who were getting ready a reply on that front)
I look forward to the interesting replies

**midlandslandlord** · 11-01-2013 09:14 AM

Assuming you are genuinely not using the neighbour's wall, I have no issue.

Obviously if it is a terrace or semi, then the PWA likely applies.

The neighbour could get a prohibitory (?) injunction to stop you, or a mandatory injunction to make you take it down, if they made a case. Compensation and costs could be added. Mandatories are harder to get.

Or they could not talk to you for the next 20 years. Or they could flag up your property being empty to the local hoodlums next time you have a void.

However, I'm amazed that you can be so flippant. It's not "the naysayers"; it's people who have the idiosyncratic opinion that you should aim to maintain good relationships and obey the law.

If in the past you allowed yourself to overpay for poor advice, who's responsibility is that? The remedy to bad advice last time is good advice this time.

If the neighbour notices, are you planning to do what my former neighbour did when they built over into my garden without permission, and threaten physical violence to make sure that "this wall will be built whether you like it or not"?

I'd suggest talking to them and using a little of your "thousands" to compensate them and maintain a decent relationship if you need to encroach. If it's a rented property you need them on your side for the future.

ML

**mk1fan** · 11-01-2013 10:08 AM

You should be aware about one consequence of not following the PWA. If your neighbour claims that damage has occured then there is no presumption of innocence. You are deemed at fault unless you can prove otherwise.

**Tipper** · 13-01-2013 20:34 PM

Do you need a PWA in order to drill fixings to put up a shelf bracket on a party wall?

**mk1fan** · 14-01-2013 14:20 PM

In a word, no.

**Tipper** · 14-01-2013 17:27 PM

OK.

How about if I want to bolt a timber bearer to the wall to support a turn landing for a staircase up to my intended loft conversion which in itself (the loft construction that is) will not bear upon the party wall at all?

Just trying to see what my neighbour might think he can object to!

**mk1fan** · 15-01-2013 10:55 AM

The PWA is not there to prevent works being done. It is there to provide a framework within which reasonable works can be undertaken. It is not to provide reasons for neighbours to prevent works. It can not be used to 'object' to works.

I can not say for definate whether you would need to serve notice or not as I'd need to see all the propsals for that. What I can say is I've never included the fixing or supporting of a staircase (whether turned or straight) in Notices or Award.

Party Wall Notices and Awards are not the preserve of Chartered Surveyors. Under the PWA you just need to be competent (ie have a suitable knowledge of the Law, the Act and construction). Anyone can compile and serve Notice but you do need to have no interest in any of the properties to act as a Party Wall Surveyor (ie compile and issue an Award).