Dropped a clanger!

[Doonsmum]

Thankyou so much - and yes I have more questions! lol.

The Tenants are paying their rent weekly in cash and the last three payments have been one or two days late. This week's rent however was due last Friday (30/11) but still has not materialised. Are they entitled to any days grace in which to produce the rent and under the circumstances should I now send them a recorded delivery letter every time the rent is overdue?

I know when they arrived I was told that one was a self employed joiner and the other a chef in the local village but I don't think the joiner has had more than one job since they moved in at the start of September and I know the Chef (although dishwasher is probably a more apt description!) is only called in when required and I don't think he's had any work for weeks and I know he has recently applied for two local jobs. So if my ad in the paper stated no DSS and they have since started claiming DSS do I have grounds for eviction under that or would I have had to state in my contract that they would have to advise me if their employment status changed?

They took the place on fully furnished but now seem to be desperate to get rid of the suite, which isn't new but in perfectly useable condition. It was re-upholstered years ago and has no label on for fire retardancy - apparently not required - and we know the cushions are in a retardant sleeve cos hubby is a fire consultant! They want to take a cushion and cover to have it tested though and they also wanted it in writing that the thermostats on the heaters are all working.

I've written as you suggested (yesterday) and put everything in writing and said they will have to pay for the fire test, I want written details of when, where, by whom it will be done and that they will have to pay to replace anything that comes back unusable or damaged. I have also said they can bring in an electrical engineer to look at the heaters when we are present and we will only replace them like for like if the thermostats are faulty. We're certain they aren't cos we've tested them but they just want the place like an oven and don't understand what they're doing wrong and are now getting all stroppy and wanting everything in writing. I'm more than happy to do that though but I cannot understand what their end goal is. I'm thinking they assume they'll be allowed to put their own furniture in if they get rid of mine but since it was let fully furnished we will not allow them to.

Can I legally prevent them from putting their own suite or armchairs in there since they took the place on fully furnished and is it possible to create an addendum to a SAT?

[theartfullodger]

Thankyou so much - and yes I have more questions! lol.

The Tenants are paying their rent weekly in cash and the last three payments have been one or two days late. This week's rent however was due last Friday (30/11) but still has not materialised.

Regardless of when they pay the rent in practice, does the tenancy state rent is payable weekly?? If so you need to give them a rent book (or similar) and update it every week...

Are they entitled to any days grace in which to produce the rent and under the circumstances should I now send them a recorded delivery letter every time the rent is overdue?

Advice hereabouts is NEVER write to T recorded-signed-for (except for notices... or Sheriff Officers..) as chances are, particularly with difficult Ts, they will decline to sign. The legilsation gives no days grace from when rent is due (which is why what it says in tenancy about when rent is payable is key..) but mandatory eviction for rent arrears only works for 3 months owing on notice service & court case: Being a bit late is discretionary grounds for Sheriff to decide & chancy....

I know when they arrived I was told that one was a self employed joiner and the other a chef in the local village but I don't think the joiner has had more than one job since they moved in at the start of September and I know the Chef (although dishwasher is probably a more apt description!) is only called in when required and I don't think he's had any work for weeks and I know he has recently applied for two local jobs. So if my ad in the paper stated no DSS and they have since started claiming DSS do I have grounds for eviction under that or would I have had to state in my contract that they would have to advise me if their employment status changed?

Did you check by getting tenant credit & other checks done?? Of course tenants change their job status: AFAIK you have no right to be informed (discuss.... interesting point given some insurers conditions...)

They took the place on fully furnished but now seem to be desperate to get rid of the suite, which isn't new but in perfectly useable condition. It was re-upholstered years ago and has no label on for fire retardancy - apparently not required - and we know the cushions are in a retardant sleeve cos hubby is a fire consultant! They want to take a cushion and cover to have it tested though and they also wanted it in writing that the thermostats on the heaters are all working.

I've written as you suggested (yesterday) and put everything in writing and said they will have to pay for the fire test,

ARrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! !! ALL furnishings must be appropriately labelled (or you can prove you bought recently - eg 1 year-old IKEA invoice..see..
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/scotla..._resistant.htm

Anything else, unless quite old (see legislation.gov.uk..) must not be in property (A Fire Consultant will know this legislation backwards...) : Telling them they pay for a Fire test is likely (well, it would for me if I were T ....) to be red rag to bull....and picked up with enthusiasm by legal-aid solicitor,... I failed to put what I usually put about writing: Make it calm & polite.. Apologies for my oversight...

See also SaL's very helpful safety in lettings leaflet... which covers fire regs (& gas & leccy...)

I want written details of when, where, by whom it will be done and that they will have to pay to replace anything that comes back unusable or damaged. I have also said they can bring in an electrical engineer to look at the heaters when we are present and we will only replace them like for like if the thermostats are faulty. We're certain they aren't cos we've tested them but they just want the place like an oven and don't understand what they're doing wrong and are now getting all stroppy and wanting everything in writing. I'm more than happy to do that though but I cannot understand what their end goal is. I'm thinking they assume they'll be allowed to put their own furniture in if they get rid of mine but since it was let fully furnished we will not allow them to.

I fear their lawyer will enjoy producing that in front of Sheriff....

Can I legally prevent them from putting their own suite or armchairs in there since they took the place on fully furnished and is it possible to create an addendum to a SAT?

The house or flat is tenant's property, merely your investment, whilst there is a valid tenancy (including if they ain't paid rent..) . Of course T can put his own furniture in... Addendums to SaTs after being signed I suspect may not be valid or, worse, construed as granting a new tenancy. I handle points like that by emailing T saying (eg.. calm & polite) "Thanks Jamesie for letting me know you will be installing your own sofa: Please note you do so at your own risk. Best regards, Artful..."

Questions, please...
a) Can you prove AT5 served before tenancy signed??
b) Is EPC booked??
c) Are you registered???

Cheers!

[Doonsmum]

Jeez! Do LL's have ANY rights?! Beginning to wish I'd stuck to hol lets now! lol.

I omitted to say that we have, as far as possible, remained cool, calm and collected when speaking or writing. It is actually THEM shouting as US though, esecially when demanding everything in writing. I plan to pose the same demand to them from now on - albeit more politely! - and will refuse to discuss anything with them verbally in future.

I also omitted to say that whilst we stated that they are responsible for the costs of fire checks on the furniture and the electrical engineer, we will - if the results are not in our favour - replace the furniture and those heaters not found to be working. I have no doubts about the heaters though. All the termostats were tested yesterday by my husband - in their presence - and found to be operating correctly. Trouble is, they whack the heating up to maximum and then cannot understand why the heat stops coming out until the temperature drops. The whole cottage is like an oven and yet they say their feet are cold and that the heaters are all crap because of that! Grrrrrrr!!!

No I didn't do credit checks etc. beforehand. Learnt my lesson for the future though! They returned home about an hour ago but still haven't appeared with any rent payment! Do I go round and ask for it or wait and see what happens? Is it my responsibility to go round? The last verbal arrangement was for them to call round with it. They didn't have a rent book - until they demanded one yesterday - so now I have downloaded and completed the one from the Shelter website which is completed and signed and awaiting their next payment! I have also created a table of the bits of donations they are still paying off the bond they still owe which is just less than £200 and keeping a record of how late each rent payment is.

Re the furniture - if my furniture (which OH is certain IS fireproof and the legislation doesn't just refer to new stuff) is fit for purpose and they took on the cottage fully furnished how can they put their own stuff in if there is no room to do so without discarding mine? Surely they cannot just throw my stuff away? I have been as amincable as I can be and taken away stuff I have room to store - TV unit, small TV, coffee table, pictures, windowsill plants etc. I just don't have room to put a suite anywhere though.

As for the fire test, I purely want to know where my belongings are going. I've given them written permission to have the test done but in case anything gets mislaid I want to know who is responsible.

Having checked my paperwork they signed the SAT three days before the contract.
I'm still trying to find someone to do the EPC for me but not getting any reply from my email enquiries (we're in SW Scotland)
Yes I'm registered.

Thanks again.

[Doonsmum]

Although I advertised the cottage (in the local paper) with off-road parking I have not referenced it in the SAT.

Am I therefore legally obliged to provide off-road parking or do I have the right to prevent them parking their car on my property?

If I do have the right, does that also mean that where car parking would be shared by more than one property, I can specify which of the properties uses my parking area?

[theartfullodger]

Doonsmum


Is this the same tenant as with any of these please???
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...read.php?50787

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...read.php?50465

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...read.php?51375

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...read.php?51555

-- please let us know which...It is normal practice & helpful to other members to keep related queries in one thread..

Assuming some or all are related could you please kindly respond to earlier questions of...
a) Can you prove AT5 served before tenancy signed??
-
c) Are you registered???

You replied

Having checked my paperwork they signed the SAT three days before the contract.

- Did you mean AT5 signed three days before SaT???


I look forward to your replies..

Cheers!

[Doonsmum]

Hi Artful. Apologies for the confusion. I'm so upset / stressed / annoyed that it's all beginning to weigh heavily and I can't think about anything else.

The latter of the two links you have posted - regarding the two men sharing - is my concern. My previous threads about the single guy are over. He kept his promise, paid his rent, came back and cleaned the cottage from top to bottom and left it spotless. I gave him his bond back, got him to sign a receipt and he's now moved out.

In answer to your question, I have a signed AT5 dated 14th September and a signed SaT dated 17th September.

At no point in the contract does it specify that they can park on our property but they were told verbally they could use the parking area - which is just a gravelled area as we live out in the sticks but within the curtilage of our grounds. It has a wall and a five bar gate and will be shared with other tenants who (God forbid!) are due to move in to another cottage next weekend. We are a small complex of four buildings centred around a courtyard. Our house backs on to the cottage in question containing the two men and is a converted byre.

I advertised the cottage - just in the local 80p rag - with free wi-fi and Sky TV, all of which we had previously provided for our holiday rental guests. There is no reference to Sky in the contract - although we supplied a TV so since they are no longer paying their rent am I able to withdraw that service in order for them to sort out their own or get FreeSat?

Finally, I gave them the TV licence which was in my name and had four months left to run. They have not paid me for that so can I now surrender the licence and advise them accordingly that they must provide their own?

Many thanks.

[theartfullodger]

MODs please merge with...
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...read.php?51375

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...read.php?51555

Hi Artful. Apologies for the confusion. I'm so upset / stressed / annoyed that it's all beginning to weigh heavily and I can't think about anything else.

Yup, know the feeling..

btw i am but a legally unqualified human: I think you need some qualified advice from, say, SaL. If not already a member suggest you join - see
http://www.scottishlandlords.com/
& also, given your questions, do the LaS training, see
http://www.landlordaccreditationscotland.com/

- hope you ain't offended...

The latter of the two links you have posted - regarding the two men sharing - is my concern.

OK, have asked Mods to merge... by the way (I did not realise until this week) advice from e.g. SaL is serve separate AT5s on each tenant, not one joint...

At no point in the contract does it specify that they can park on our property but they were told verbally they could use the parking area - which is just a gravelled area as we live out in the sticks but within the curtilage of our grounds. It has a wall and a five bar gate and will be shared with other tenants who (God forbid!) are due to move in to another cottage next weekend. We are a small complex of four buildings centred around a courtyard. Our house backs on to the cottage in question containing the two men and is a converted byre.

I advertised the cottage - just in the local 80p rag - with free wi-fi and Sky TV, all of which we had previously provided for our holiday rental guests. There is no reference to Sky in the contract - although we supplied a TV so since they are no longer paying their rent am I able to withdraw that service in order for them to sort out their own or get FreeSat?

I suspect most people, including D&G trading standards, would find that what you advertised/said is, unless there was very clear agreement not to take (eg "by the way we don't need the fridge thank you" from tenant..) is what you need to deliver. Certainly if you want to p*** off tenant and start relations off on a bad, non-trusting "I'm gonna get back at that b****ard" mode then not giving what you advertised is normally a good way to do so.. (just my views mind..)

Finally, I gave them the TV licence which was in my name and had four months left to run. They have not paid me for that so can I now surrender the licence and advise them accordingly that they must provide their own?

Many thanks.

YOUR TV license entitles YOU to view: If you wish to transfer see...
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ17/

. According to TV licensing guys if a LL supplies tele then BOTH tenant & LL can be liable for fine (£1k..). So where I supply tele I have a clause making T responsible for TV license, broadband, 'phone, council tax, gas, leccy etc etc...see..
http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ47/

I ask, again, are you registered, please???

[Moderator2]

Three related threads have been merged.

[Doonsmum]

Thanks for that.

Well I have today spoken to a Solicitor in the town over the phone, explained the situation and he tells me that trying to evict them on the grounds of non-payment of rent could prove a lengthy and costly exercise on my part. He's advised that I just let the tenancy run and bring it to a natural conclusion mid March, which is now what I intend to do.

I'm not happy that I'll be losing tons of rent - however it is my smallest property so not like I'll be too much out of pocket and at least I don't have to cover the electricity costs etc. I will however, look into suing them for non payment at the appropriate time nearer to or at the end of their lease. I will also keep that part of the bond although it will only cover a fraction of my losses.

Re the dog situation, apparently I don't have a leg to stand on because I verbally agreed it would be ok despite it being a conversation just between them and myself and with only cows and sheep to overhear! It seems the tenants themselves are deemed to be 'witnesses' so there's not a damned thing I can do about it.

What a complete a utter arse the law is! It seems that Tenants are allowed to do whatever the hell they want and as LL's we are obliged to treat them with kid gloves where really, they should be turfed out on their ear just on the basis of non-payment. Yes, I'm pretty riled with the whole situation!

Re the TV licence a LL is only obliged to provide a licence if the contract does not state that it is the responsiblity of the T - which mine does, so based on that I am going to surrender what is left and try to get a refund and advise the T accordingly - or not!

I have decided to give them until Saturday to pay, at which point they will then be two weeks in arrears and I will send them a letter - not recorded! - advising them of their obligations and see if that has any effect. According to the Shelter website we are obliged to do so.

At least I can smile a bit now and will sleep better tonight, in the knowledge that come March 17th that cottage will be mine once again. I only have to stipulate on the AT6 that I require the property back for my own use, whatever that may be.

I think this has served as proof that holidaymakers are much easier to deal with! lol.

[theartfullodger]

Well that sounds better - but was your solicitor a specialist in Landlord/tenant matters??

AT6 etc does not oblige the tenant to leave, it does not end the tenancy: Many tenants leave when issued with notices but they don't have to.. You'd still need to go through the Sheriff to enforce their leaving....
see..
http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_a...ured_tenants#1

About the eviction process

In most cases your landlord will need to follow the steps below in order to evict you. However, in a few cases, a landlord might be able to skip serving you a notice to quit (see below) . If you have any doubts you should get advice as soon as possible. The process is as follows:


You will be served with a notice to quit.
You will be served with a notice of proceedings.
You will be sent a summons telling you when your case will be heard in court.
Your case will come to court.
Sheriff officers will be sent round to remove you from your property.

Remember:

This process takes a long time, and it may be possible to stop or delay the process at any time.

Interesting view on TV licenses from your chap..

I ask, again, are you registered, please??

Cheers!