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Dec, 2014

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  1. #111
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    May 2010
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    Having thought about this a little more, there is potentially a problem for you (sbw). It all depends on what the lease actually says.

    S20 orders apply to service charges only.

    To fall within the definition of a variable administration charge (sch. 11 CLRA 2002) it has to be a charge of a certain type (application charges, information charges, late payment penalties, breach of lease charges). I don't think that the charges you refer to fall into the required categories.

  2. #112

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    Hi Andy.

    The judge has said to stay silent on costs?
    But the breakdown from the solicitors is for sending emails between the freeholder themselves and the agents,and to examine evidence and documents and hundreds off pounds in disbursements? meetings between the freeholder and themselves lasting 2 hours at £275.00 per hour etc etc.

    It makes no mention off the fact they have been to 3 allocation hearings so perhaps i will get another bill for that!

    Cheers Stuart

  3. #113
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    Jun 2010
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    Sorry, but an administration charge will embrace costs under a typical section 146 clause which includes "preparation or consideration of", or similar wording under (c) and (d).

    You will see LVTs have been variable in whether they were in themselves , as say a service charge is, reasonably incurred, or not.

    it's frustrating to say "they're wrong and they also charge me?!" but you have to treat it as fighting a war on two fronts, not trade them off.
    Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers. More ramblings atleaseholdpropertymanager.blogspot.com

  4. #114
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    Jun 2010
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    Default Payability of their bill.

    1: what is the wording in your lease re legal costs?

    2: has it been invoiced to you and in what format?

    I am thinking that dependant on 1 and that the court has not set any costs yet, it must be invoiced by the landlord with the summary for admin costs and then you would apply to the LVT on those costs.
    Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers. More ramblings atleaseholdpropertymanager.blogspot.com

  5. #115

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    Hi,

    I will check my lease this evening and find the exact wording.

    Many thanks Stuart

  6. #116
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    233

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    Quote Originally Posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
    1: what is the wording in your lease re legal costs?

    2: has it been invoiced to you and in what format?

    I am thinking that dependant on 1 and that the court has not set any costs yet, it must be invoiced by the landlord with the summary for admin costs and then you would apply to the LVT on those costs.
    The OP isn't referring to administration costs so the SOTRAO for such costs are not required.

    It is also irrelevant as to whether the Landlord has demanded payment of the legal costs or not, provided the tenant is liable to meet such costs as directed by the Lease, then they are payable.

    I am unable to accept any liability to you in relation to the advice you may choose to use.

    My experience lies heavily with the county court process and my advice tends to be influenced by this.

    This advice should not, in any way, be substituted for that of a thorough consultation with a solicitor or other legal professional.

    Oh, and please use correct spelling and grammar. It isn't difficult.

  7. #117
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    May 2010
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    763

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    Quote Originally Posted by dant View Post
    The OP isn't referring to administration costs so the SOTRAO for such costs are not required.

    It is also irrelevant as to whether the Landlord has demanded payment of the legal costs or not, provided the tenant is liable to meet such costs as directed by the Lease, then they are payable.
    Well we really need to see what the lease says but both service charges and administration charges must be demanded in the proper way or the leaseholder can withold payment.

    Sorry, but an administration charge will embrace costs under a typical section 146 clause which includes "preparation or consideration of", or similar wording under (c) and (d).
    I'm not sure whether we are disagreeing on this or not but yes, costs associated with a breach of covenant are classed as admin. costs but legal costs as per this matter aren't.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by dant View Post
    The OP isn't referring to administration costs so the SOTRAO for such costs are not required.

    It is also irrelevant as to whether the Landlord has demanded payment of the legal costs or not, provided the tenant is liable to meet such costs as directed by the Lease, then they are payable.
    But dant under c & d (above) legal costs are classed as admin costs....

    Any charges arising under the lease that are not service charges or rent are admin charges and the SI then does apply. And I have the LVT decisions that agreed with me

    Yes he is liable, however statute allows him the right to challenge their reasonableness, and is entitled to withhold them until they are billed with the summary.

    Sorry.
    Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers. More ramblings atleaseholdpropertymanager.blogspot.com

  9. #119
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    May 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by leaseholdanswers View Post
    Any charges arising under the lease that are not service charges or rent are admin charges and the SI then does apply. And I have the LVT decisions that agreed with me
    OK, we do disagree and I've seen at least one LVT decision where a charge associated with a lease is deemed not in the LVT's jurisdiction (not rent). The type of admin charge that the LVT can decide upon are defined in sch. 11 of the Commonhold & Leasehold Act 2002.

  10. #120
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    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by siva View Post
    I'm not sure whether we are disagreeing on this or not but yes, costs associated with a breach of covenant are classed as admin. costs but legal costs as per this matter aren't.
    I can't say what the breakdown of the £1877 is/are and was restricting my comment to, before seeing the actual clause, making an assumption that the costs that a landlord can recover would say be limited to the " all to do with " a S146.

    I suspect in re reading there might be more info than #112 but I would in the same fashion, say that generally the overall costs are not entirely related to pursuing a S146 and is advice of a general nature or conduct which such clauses often do not cover. We'll see I hope tomorrow.
    Based on the information posted, I offer my thoughts.Any action you then take is your liability. While commending individual effort, there is no substitute for a thorough review of documents and facts by paid for professional advisers. More ramblings atleaseholdpropertymanager.blogspot.com

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