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Jul, 2014

Tuesday

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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorkerz View Post
    It is a HMO if there are more than 2 people forming more than 2 different households.
    Minor edit to the above:

    It is a HMO if there are more than 2 people forming 2 or more different households

  2. #22

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    So wait, now we CAN'T have key lockable bedroom doors???

  3. #23
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    Jul 2008
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    Yorkshire
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekAndProud View Post
    So wait, now we CAN'T have key lockable bedroom doors???
    Please read the advice that has been given.

    You are not prohibited from having lockable bedroom doors if you really want them, but the LL is not obliged to provide them. But it can be useful to consider why you feel they are so necessary.

    If you want them to keep each other out of your bedrooms, then that should be unnecessary anyway in a joint tenancy.

    If you want them to keep burglars out, it is probably pointless, as a determined burglar with a lump hammer will make short work of internal door locks in any case.

    Your LL's letting agent, however, seems exceptionally clueless and has confused you with his meaningless spouting about HMOs. An HMO is simply a property where at least two people live who are unrelated to each other through blood or conjugality. That includes the vast majority of student houses. Some of them need licences; some do not. Ones where rooms are rented out on an individual basis should have locks on the bedroom doors. Ones which are rented out on joint tenancies, like yours, don't have to have them.
    How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive? Homer Simpson

  4. #24

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    Well like I pointed out in my first post the Estate Agent/LL is REFUSING to give us keys for the current bedroom locks and telling us we can't fit our own because its not a HMO...

  5. #25

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    http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndC...ards/DG_189200

    "A property is an HMO if it is let as a main or only home to at least three tenants, who form more than one household and who share a kitchen, bathroom or toilet."


    "An HMO must have a licence if they are:

    of three or more storeys
    occupied by five or more persons who form more than one household

    A local council can also include other types of HMOs for licensing. You must apply for an HMO licence if one is required, and meet the terms and conditions of the licence."


    With 'other types of licensing' they mean 'additional and selctive' licensing. You can find out from the council if they have introduced any of this.

    There is another aspect to locks on doors. Some lenders won't grant mortgages for properties where there are locks on doors. However, now that you do have the locks I can't understand why you are not given the keys. To me it's also a question of having privacy when a partner visits. Am I right?

  6. #26
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    Feb 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter View Post

    However, now that you do have the locks I can't understand why you are not given the keys. To me it's also a question of having privacy when a partner visits. Am I right?
    There are many reasons why;

    1) They are the only keys the LL has and she doesn't want to loose them to absent minded tenants
    2) The fact it is a joint tenancy means that no individual has the right to excluded the others from their room; they are sharers after all
    3) To discourage sub letting; a student gives a key to their mate and charges rent without LL's permission
    4) So that students are not required to have separate TV licences i.e. one licence will cover the whole building.
    5) All rooms will be accessible during LL inspections
    6) Discourage people growing canabis plants/ hiding drugs
    7) To stop tghe LL for being liable for paying any council tax, should a tenant turn out not to be a student.
    8) Cheaper insurance as the property is not bedsit accomodation.


    If you read the thread you will see that each room has a thumb turn on the inside so that the occupant can have privacy.
    All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

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  7. #27

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    Readingborough council seems to take a different point of view on that. All my doors have locks and are thumb-turn-locks. This is straight from the councils website:

    2. Shared Houses
    Houses normally occupied by members of a defined social group, e.g. students or a group of young single adult friends. This standard will also normally apply to small scale lodgings. The occupiers each enjoy exclusive use of a bedroom but would share other facilities including a common living space. The anticipated duration of the occupancy will often be finite and occupiers may spend short periods away (e.g. vacations). Numbers of occupiers above 6 are more suggestive of a bedsit HMO. This standard is not intended to apply to purpose built student accommodation.


    Locks come with 2 0r 3 keys, keys can be cut, locks replaced ... Locks are available with master keys...the landlord and LA should always have one as well as the tenant. http://www.hmodaddy.co.uk/page/292794217

    http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-i...students-aud1/

    Or you live in a shared house

    "If there’s a joint tenancy agreement for the whole house, you may only need one licence. However, you may need your own licence if your accommodation is self-contained – i.e. you have exclusive access to washing facilities or you have your own entrance to the property. If you’re not sure whether or not you need one, please contact us.


    If you have a separate tenancy agreement for your room, you’ll need to be covered by a separate licence."


    The important points are: single AST or not and shared facilities or not = self contained or not.

  8. #28

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    There are many reasons why;

    1) They are the only keys the LL has and she doesn't want to loose them to absent minded tenants
    2) The fact it is a joint tenancy means that no individual has the right to excluded the others from their room; they are sharers after all
    3) To discourage sub letting; a student gives a key to their mate and charges rent without LL's permission
    4) So that students are not required to have separate TV licences i.e. one licence will cover the whole building.
    5) All rooms will be accessible during LL inspections
    6) Discourage people growing canabis plants/ hiding drugs
    7) To stop tghe LL for being liable for paying any council tax, should a tenant turn out not to be a student.
    8) Cheaper insurance as the property is not bedsit accomodation.

    Let me make myself more clear:

    1) The LL can get keys cut
    2) "The occupiers each enjoy exclusive use of a bedroom but would share other facilities including a common living space". So no reason why they can't lock their room.
    3) LL and LA should have a key = access
    4) Incorrect as explained before
    5) Yep - LL and LA should have a key
    6) Regular visits would spot the plants
    7) Has nothing to do with key or no key
    8) It's a shared house as explained above = not a bedsit

  9. #29
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    Jul 2008
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    Yorkshire
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    OP : you took the property as seen. In the end, if the LL does not want to give you keys for the bedrooms, she is not obliged to. She cannot however prevent you putting your own locks on as long as you rectify any damage to doors when you leave.

    You still haven't explained why you want locks, or how long you hope to stay in the property(this is significant).
    How is education supposed to make me feel smarter? Besides, every time I learn something new, it pushes some old stuff out of my brain. Remember when I took that home winemaking course, and I forgot how to drive? Homer Simpson

  10. #30
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    Feb 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter View Post
    Let me make myself more clear:

    1) The LL can get keys cut
    2) "The occupiers each enjoy exclusive use of a bedroom but would share other facilities including a common living space". So no reason why they can't lock their room.
    3) LL and LA should have a key = access
    4) Incorrect as explained before
    5) Yep - LL and LA should have a key
    6) Regular visits would spot the plants
    7) Has nothing to do with key or no key
    8) It's a shared house as explained above = not a bedsit
    Putting myself in OP's LL shoes, these are reasons that the LL may not want to make keys available, some are more light hearted then others and you don't have to like them, they are reason enough for a LL not to give keys.

    In response, the LL might say
    1)Too much hassle and cost for something that is not necessary.
    2)You reference is weak. The joint tenancy agreement will give possession of all of the house to all of the tenants
    3)A locked door makes a sub let more attractive; gives more privacy and the abilty to exclude the rest of the house mates
    4)You are correct in essence, but some people think that it depends if the bedroom is lockable
    5)LL does not want to be burdened by a ring of keys
    6)(this was a bit tongue in cheek)but a locked door stops housemates from keeping their fellow mates on the straight and narrow; it's much easier to hide bad stuff
    7)The written tenancy agreement doesn't always reflect what has actually been agreed. It can depend on other factors. Generally, having locks on doors points to tenants having individual tenancies as it proves they have the right to exclude everyone else when they want. If the tenancy is a "sham" joint tenancy (ie individuals change over on a regular basis, then the council may seek to make LL responsible for council tax. Locks on doors may support the view that these tenants are not living as one group.LL wants to show that this is a proper joint tenacy with people who trust eachother, so that under no circumstances will he be clobbered for council tax
    8) Similar to above; if the house looks like it is being run as individual lets using a sham joint tenacy agreement, then it's possible to fall foul of insurers terms. Not having locks demonstrates it's a group

    Just thought of another reason for the list that has already been mentioned

    9) Should a break-in occur, LL does not want to have to repair evry ones bedroom door that has been lump hammered to gain access.
    All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

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