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Sep, 2014

Wednesday

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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjlandlord View Post
    Perhaps something like "For a minimum term of 6 months, continuing as monthly periodic".
    We do not want the word "minimum" in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by jjlandlord View Post
    Drafting contracts is best let to professionals.
    You've been paying attention. Gold Star!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    373

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorkerz View Post
    Are you saying that your terms were:
    If you want to leave on the 29th, then you pay my fees, otherwise you must stay until 5th April?
    That's what the agreement terms seems to state, yes.

    Did your tenants notice include the words 'The notice will therefore expire on 5th April 2012'?
    Yes, the exact words in his email notice were:

    (email subject heading): "2 months Notice at <property address>"

    "Please accept this email as my formal 2 months notice to vacate <property address>. The notice will therefore expire on 5th April 2012.

    I am able to leave to the property on 1st March 2012, if you find a new tenant and you are willing to apportion the rent (as appropriate) it would be very much appreciated. Please feel free to advertise it from 1st March.

    I have really loved living here as you know from my determination to always find secure and sound housemates for other vacant rooms. I have always treated it with the up most respect as I would my own home. You have been a fantastic landlord and it has been a pleasure to be your tenant in such a beautiful home. I will of course do my upmost to find someone to fill my room alongside your spareroom ad, and will help as much as I can for all the viewings as I have done before, as well as spread the word amongst my reliable and quiet colleagues & friends. It will be snapped up in days I'm sure.

    Best regards,
    <tenant's name>"

    _________________________

    I replied:


    hi <tenant>,

    we won't need agents if you able to do the viewings on a consistent basis throughout. if you're too busy then let me know.

    regarding advertising/ reletting costs, reference & new tenancy agreement costs that need to be covered, this is outlined on page 16 of your Tenancy agreement.

    a quick summary of likely costs:

    advertising - 39.90
    referencing - 75.00
    new tenancy agreement - 125.00

    trust this is now clearer

    the ad will go up today..

    regards
    <LL's name>

    ________________________


    Do you have (anywhere) the tenants acceptance of your terms - other than he contract, where the terms no longer apply?
    His reply:

    "Thank you <LL's name>, understood.

    Can i please ask you kindly that you ammend the spareroom ad, the correct current household ages are 24-30"

    ________________________

    With the above information, how do you view the situation, your thoughts?

  3. #13
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    Jul 2008
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    Just to repeat - once it is over, the terms regarding determination of the tenancy do not apply.

    This is presumably a HMO (not a lodger is he?) so are all rooms let individually or is it a joint contract with all occupants on it?

    I am confident that if the tenant were to refuse to pay, or subsequently to take the matter to court to recover his payment, he would win. That's not what he seems to be doing, so you may be fine. Although your prices for references etc are over-inflated, they are fine for a fixed term, but after the end of the fixed term, then tenant is not contracted to stay for any specific length of time, you can not charge them for leaving somewhere when they have no obligation to stay.

    Surely, the cost of advertising, references etc is just a cost of business, and probably tax deductable at that? The tone of your tenants notice suggests he considers you to be a brilliant landlord, I am guessing you always speak to your tenants in a pleasant manner and deal with problems promptly, which is great, but if he (or any future tenant) actually knew what the were doing - it could prove 'interesting'. At 24-30 you would think at least one of them would have a brain

  4. #14
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    Sep 2008
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    373

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorkerz View Post
    Just to repeat - once it is over, the terms regarding determination of the tenancy do not apply.
    Except the 1 months notice period. Which in this instance, the T left before the 1 month was up. Which is why I call into question that they are liable for mentioned costs for early release, albeit a few days, its technically before end of notice period required.

    This is presumably a HMO (not a lodger is he?) so are all rooms let individually or is it a joint contract with all occupants on it?
    Rooms let individually

    Although your prices for references etc are over-inflated, they are fine for a fixed term, but after the end of the fixed term, then tenant is not contracted to stay for any specific length of time, you can not charge them for leaving somewhere when they have no obligation to stay.
    The terms were most likely written specific to the fixed term - fair in my opinion for the amount of hassle and work to disrupt a 12 month fixed-term. After that, the agreement probably needs to be amended to reflect change of notice etc..

    Surely, the cost of advertising, references etc is just a cost of business, and probably tax deductable at that?
    Yes, it is. But during the fixed term it is normal to charge for these should the T want an Early release.

    The tone of your tenants notice suggests he considers you to be a brilliant landlord, I am guessing you always speak to your tenants in a pleasant manner and deal with problems promptly, which is great, but if he (or any future tenant) actually knew what the were doing - it could prove 'interesting'. At 24-30 you would think at least one of them would have a brain
    I'm professional and nice. I treat them better than the LL's I have had myself, and as I would want to be treated if I were a T.

    I posted this to know where I stand as a LL from a legal perspective, and hence can move forward accordingly.

    As the T left before their 1 month's notice period was up and they replied that they understood that leaving early was subject to payment of advertising etc.. shouldn't the T have to abide by this? And if this were to go to court/deposit adjudication, wouldn't the judgement/adjudicator's decision* reflect this?

    *tempered with caution, as I have heard many times - they don't get it right!

    Your sage advice appreciated!!

  5. #15
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    Under normal circumstances I am sure judge/adjudicator would take into account that the tenant left before common law notice had been completed, and the tenant would be liable up until that point. However, as the room was re-let from 1/3/12, the tenant was no longer able to use the room that he is paying for from that date. I also think that even though the tenant 'agreed' at the point of giving notice, that it could be argued they agreed under duress.

    I have no problem whatsoever with the terms in your contract for early release during the fixed term. You can charge what you like, it is not unreasonable to expect a tenant to stay for as long as they have agreed to stay.

    My comment in th last post about you being a brilliant landlord was not meant to be sarcastic, however I have already been accused of being a grumpy git this morning, so I think I need to go and lie down in a dark room until I can write a little more clearly

    I think, as new tenant moved in 1/3/12 the tenancy came to an end at that point and that pursuing for rent/notice beyond that point is destined to failure.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    I'd agree with Snorkerz: You could have held tenant liable for rent and treat the tenancy as continuing until the correct expiry of their one month notice.

    But if room was relet from 1 March it means you had accepted that their tenancy would end by then.

    You have suffered no extra cost nor any loss, so it would seem rather petty to rely on the tenant's ignorance to extra money from them.
    If they do pay, perhaps consider it an unexpected bonus, but I would not pursue the matter if they do not.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    Snorkerz, jjlandlord - thank you for the advice gents.

    Interesting how T's are so very nice when they need a reference for their ongoing property, but when it comes to the deposit return (after I have given a glowing reference) they will twist and turn at every turn to get out of what they owe, and I'm not referring to the Early vacate terms discussed in this thread, am referring to things like carpet cleaning etc.. which the T knew was done at viewings as they commented on how clean it was but never mind, I have the receipts to show professional cleaning was done. Just wished T's would just have enough moral decency to meet what's outlined in the TA and not 'try it on'.

    Well, I can always update the new LL, EA of deposit return experience so they have an amber light on this particular T. Which is basically what I got from his previous LL

    Now, who can someone please help with drafting my AST to amend so it is "contractual periodic tenancy" tight?

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