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Sep, 2014

Tuesday

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  1. #1

    Unhappy Internal Flue Inspection Hatches

    I am preparing my flat to rent out. I have just come accross some guidance about when boilers are on internal walls and have a flue hidden within a ceiling void running to the outside wall.

    I have looked at both the Gov and Gas Safe sites (below). I read this is a recommendation. I also read there is a possibility of when you get a boiler inspection they may want to "turn off the boiler", but this can be refused by the owner.

    I also read about the use of the CO2 alarms.

    In the capacity of renting out, does anyone have any legal advice that really pins this down? I am keen to know what I might have to do before I get an agent on board, or at least know in case anyone tries any unnecessary request for works

    Government one
    http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/alert021008.htm

    Gas Safe one
    http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/adv...questions.aspx

    Thanks for any help
    Cheers.....Q

  2. #2

    Default

    The links state what is required. As a gas safe engineer, I need to be able to inspect the flue to ensure it is intact and safe.

    If the flue is in a void, I cannot do this, therefore a hatch needs to be provided so i can visually see the flue across its entire length. Although not law, under gas regs as of 1st Jan 2013, if I carry out a gas check and cannot see the flue I will class the installation as 'at risk' and will issue a warning notice stating this and with your permission, I will turn the boiler off.

    You do not have to agree to this, but I will issue the warning notice and provide you with a copy of this and note this on the gas check form and fail the check as I can't verify the integrity of the flue.

    So although not law, you really have no choice to provide inspection hatches otherwise no engineer will issue you with a LL gas cert.

    Until the 1st Jan 2013, you can provide an audible CO alarm as a temp measure until hatches are installed.

    Just get a hatch or hatches installed before 1st Jan 2013 then you will have no issues.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    32

    Default

    From 1 January 2012, if you have a boiler that is room sealed and has a fan-assisted flue you must have inspection hatches or access panels within 1.5metres of each flue joint so that gas engineers can check the boiler flue joints when servicing or repairing your boiler.

    Room sealed fan assisted boilers are relatively modern (since 2000), so if your boiler is of the older open flue type without a fan then, as long the engineer can perform the normal safety checks on the boiler flue, the new rules on voids should not affect you.

    If your boiler is room sealed and fan assisted and you do not have boiler flue inspection panels fitted a service engineer will be required to classify your boiler as ‘At Risk’ to life or property. If there are other faults which compound the risk of operating the boiler, it may even be classed as ‘Immediately Dangerous’, which can lead to immediate disconnection of the boiler to protect your safety.

    Don't be misled by the issue of disconnection only with the owner's permission - if you refuse permission and the engineer thinks the boiler is immediately dangerous he will leave the premises, call the gas supplier and have them come and turn off the gas to your property.

    There is a short period of grace for the installation of flue inspection panels.

    You can continue to use your room sealed, fan assisted boiler until the end of 2012, but from 1 January 2013 you MUST have inspection hatches or access panels at each boiler flue joint in the void if you wish to continue using the boiler.

    Normally the inspection hatch or access panel for a boiler flue should be 300mm x 300mm and fitted within 1.5metres of each boiler flue joint along the entire length of the void so that the engineer can examine each flue joint to ensure that it is not leaking.

    Special inspection hatches or access panels will be required if the ceiling, wall or floor in which the inspection hatch or access panel is to be fitted is fire retardant - the inspection hatch or acess panel will need to have the same or greater fire resistance as the rest of the wall, ceiling or floor.

    If your boiler is mounted on an exterior wall, the flue goes straight out through the wall and you have not covered the flue (for example, with a box section or other decoration), you probably don't need to do anything.

    If your boiler flue goes out through your ceiling or floor, or through a loft space, or if you have covered your flue with a box section or other decoration that creates a 'void' then you probably do need to have flue inspection hatches or access panels. Without them you won't get a landlord's gas safety inspection certificate from 1/1/2013. In the meantime you should install a carbon monoxide detector.

  4. #4

    Default

    Yes, coming back as the wording has since changed in the links above and as of Jan 01 2013 you DO have to have these inspection hatches.

    As a result (these things are ghastly) I personally am looking at putting in an electric boiler (only a 1 bed flat).

    I wonder is you can prove the flue is ONE piece if that means you can negate as long as the start and end connection can be viewed?

    Good thing overall I guess, shame we cannot just fill this with a requirement of CO2 detectors and for any new property like firearms, hard aired with battery back up.

    Q

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by QfanatiQ View Post
    .

    like firearms
    Would this be the ice cream district of Glasgow?

    ML
    Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    London
    Posts
    32

    Default

    Unfortunately, just because a flue is in one piece doesn't mean it's still safe.

    As a gas engineer I would still want to see the entire length of the flue up reasonably close to make sure it isn't perforated in any way and allowing poisonous CO back into the let property.

    I understand the concern many landlords have that access panels for flues in voids are a costly eyesore, but they are only there for one purpose and that's to save lives.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by midlandslandlord View Post
    Would this be the ice cream district of Glasgow?

    ML
    Stupid Mac autocorrect again!

    Quote Originally Posted by dryasabone View Post
    Unfortunately, just because a flue is in one piece doesn't mean it's still safe.

    As a gas engineer I would still want to see the entire length of the flue up reasonably close to make sure it isn't perforated in any way and allowing poisonous CO back into the let property.

    I understand the concern many landlords have that access panels for flues in voids are a costly eyesore, but they are only there for one purpose and that's to save lives.
    Thats good to know.

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