LandlordZONE

29

Aug, 2014

Friday

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 34
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    39,409

    Default Unlicensed HMOs- new s.21 problem

    Want another s.21 problem with which to grapple?
    See s.75(1) of Housing Act 2004. "No section 21 Notice may be given in relation to [an AST] of a part of an unlicensed HMO so long as it remains such an HMO."
    At least the provision is clear. Just as where a deposit should be protected but remains unprotected, when no s.21 Notice can be served, the same is true where a property should be licensed as an HMO but remains unlicensed.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

  2. #2

    Default

    i have just come upon this while filling out the court papers.But tell me what is part1 and part3? I think i have a hmo but not which requires a licence.(council could,nt tell me a year ago)It has 3 story.all self contained,4 flats but converted some time ago, so would not meet current regs...so a hmo yes?...but requires a licence? just 4 tenants. one of the flats does not even share a door into the house.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    841

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vantagex View Post
    i have just come upon this while filling out the court papers.But tell me what is part1 and part3?
    Part 1 and part 3 of what?

    Part 1 of the Housing Act is Housing Conditions, i.e Housing Health and Safety Rating System and Part 3 is Selective licensing of other residential accommodation, if that helps any?

    Quote Originally Posted by vantagex View Post
    I think i have a hmo but not which requires a licence.(council could,nt tell me a year ago)It has 3 story.all self contained,4 flats but converted some time ago, so would not meet current regs...so a hmo yes?
    Looks like a definate HMO to me

    Quote Originally Posted by vantagex View Post
    ...but requires a licence? just 4 tenants.
    Not unless your council are operating additional licensing or selective, but you would need to speak to your council.

    Quote Originally Posted by vantagex View Post
    one of the flats does not even share a door into the house.
    No relevance really as it appears to be a converted building to which section 257 applies of the above Act.

    The only real issue with this is it will cost a little more in fire protection. By that I mean the flat with its own front door wont be connected to the communal stairway and therefore cannot have an interlinked smoke detection system installed in that particular flat as per the Institute of Electrical Engineers.

    What usually happens is you may be asked to provide suitable 60 minute fire protection between any areas of that flat (seperate entrance) that are connected with any other flats, be it the ceiling, wall or floor, etc.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by red40 View Post
    the flat with its own front door wont be connected to the communal stairway and therefore cannot have an interlinked smoke detection system installed in that particular flat as per the Institute of Electrical Engineers.


    I’ve been trying to find out about the above. This is a regulation that I haven’t heard of before, an important one, would you have an Internet link by any chance?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    841

    Default

    No sorry, you should ring the IEE or any of the electrician registration schemes, NAPIT, BRE, NICEIC, etc, etc, for advice, or have a good bedtime read of BS5839, BS7176, etc, etc, guaranteed to send you to sleep.

    Having said that, you could also use the, say, Aico RF smoke detection system, these can be interlinked as they use radio frequency and are only connected to each (as required) light fitting pendant in the dwelling. If these are used the fire resistant integrity of the structure could go back to 30minute. Also with these types of systems each unit of accommodation can be house coded, to minimise the common problem of false alarms.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    841

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
    Even though the HA 2004 definition of HMO includes flats in converted building (where not complying with 199x building regulations (think it is 1993) and more than 1/3rd being privately rented), our local council pointedly does not follow this.
    I had a look wickerman but cant see were they say that, any chance of pointing us in the right direction or a link.

  7. #7

    Default

    looks like the fire system may need upgrading...i,ve found these which i am going to run past the fire risk assessor http://www.safelincs.co.uk/section.p...FQyI1QodQ2FOFw

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3

    Default Evicting tenant from unlicensed HMO - catch 22!?

    Hi
    I am looking at buying an unlicensed HMO that is a death trap in waiting and requires major renovation to bring it up to standard. The tenants are on AST's and would need to be evicted to allow the refurbishment to happen. The catch 22 problem is that the legislation, as I understand it, does not allow a section 21 notice to be issued to tenants where the HMO is unlicensed so the works cannot be done to get the property licensed - any suggestions? Thanks in advance

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    24,592

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NAK View Post
    Hi
    I am looking at buying an unlicensed HMO that is a death trap in waiting and requires major renovation to bring it up to standard. The tenants are on AST's and would need to be evicted to allow the refurbishment to happen. The catch 22 problem is that the legislation, as I understand it, does not allow a section 21 notice to be issued to tenants where the HMO is unlicensed so the works cannot be done to get the property licensed - any suggestions? Thanks in advance
    Are you sure about this?

    It is true that you cannot issue a s21 when the tenants' deposit is unprotected - but what legislation are you referring to?

    If the property is a death trap as you say, the EHO can order LL to effect repairs, quite apart from the requirements of the HMO licence, and if those repairs/upgrading renders the house uninhabitable in the process, the tenants obviously cannot remain in it.

    If it is the case that you cannot issue a section 21 (although I'd be very surprised), you could offer the tenants a financial incentive to move out; possibly offer them first refusal on the property when it is refurbished; help them find alternative acccomodation.

    How long will the refurb take?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    London
    Posts
    3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mind the gap View Post
    Are you sure about this?

    It is true that you cannot issue a s21 when the tenants' deposit is unprotected - but what legislation are you referring to?

    If the property is a death trap as you say, the EHO can order LL to effect repairs, quite apart from the requirements of the HMO licence, and if those repairs/upgrading renders the house uninhabitable in the process, the tenants obviously cannot remain in it.

    If it is the case that you cannot issue a section 21 (although I'd be very surprised), you could offer the tenants a financial incentive to move out; possibly offer them first refusal on the property when it is refurbished; help them find alternative acccomodation.

    How long will the refurb take?
    It seems to be pretty definate that s21 is out if unlicensed - the specific wording is "No section 21 notice may be given in relation to a shorthold tenancy of a part of an unlicensed HMO so long as it remains such an HMO. "

    The property is large and the refurb would take about 1 year. I believe EHO are about to pounce on the current owner and they have apparently told the tenants that their tenancies are safe/uninterrupted. As I don't own the property yet I would like to know if there is another defined legal way (ie is the EHO simply incorrect!) to get the tenants out so the work can be done without having to rely on negotiating with tenants and EHO.

Similar Threads

  1. (Scottish) Short Ass'd Tenancy ends, T in situ, new one granted
    By Peterpan in forum Scottish Rental & Legal Issues
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-02-2010, 22:03 PM
  2. Tenant under impression can move out after 6 months without giving notice
    By Pobinr in forum Residential Letting Questions
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 08-01-2010, 20:08 PM
  3. Selling property during the 6 months' assured tenancy
    By cunnc57 in forum Residential Letting Questions
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 24-09-2009, 09:54 AM
  4. Can my landlord do this?? Putting property up for sale during my tenancy
    By missnorfolk in forum Residential Letting Questions
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-08-2009, 10:39 AM
  5. Property uninhabitable- is Tenancy Agreement invalid?
    By katrinahale in forum Residential Letting Questions
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-11-2008, 13:22 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •