LandlordZONE

22

Oct, 2014

Wednesday

Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1

    Default Lease expired; what are T's rights to remain?

    Dear all,

    I have stumbled on your site by accident and hope someone can point me in the right direction or help as I dont know where to seek advice, this is my situation:

    I am a tenant having one room in a small business premises and have enjoyed a good relationship with the Landlord (a large nationwide firm) until now.

    My lease ended three and a half years ago and I have continued staying there using it more as a postal address having to be at home more. I fully paid any monies due and stayed on thinking they would contact me regarding a renewed lease. I have not heard at all from them since, I do not have a renewed lease, no demands for money etc have been made by them, just silence, I admit I have not chased them. (note landlord/tenant act 1954 - I have sections 24-28 inc. excluded in lease).

    Out of the blue I have been asked to vacate in 30 days time, I can accept this, it will be a nightmare to move my things in that time but I have do it. A few days later I have schedule of dilapidations & wants of repair relating to the expired lease, some of the requests are unreasonable bearing in mind the time. Some defects relate to the main structure which they now admit suffers from settlement and I feel is outside my responsibilites. I am prepared to clean/paint etc, however I do not accept paying the surveyors huge bill for preparing this especially when I would put wear and tear right and I didnt even know this was being prepared.

    My biggest concern however, is the possible rent and services charges they may inflict on me in the three and a half years without a lease, particularly as I only used the room in the last 4 years as storage with little or no utility use being made, however the other offices have all stepped up their staff and I could end up paying an unfair proportion of their increased use of services etc.

    Some people say no contract no payment, others say maybe a proportion and yet more say the original lease stays in place, I am confused, can someone advise on my rights or obligations please?

    sorry if its rambling and long, many thanks in anticipation

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    39,409

    Default

    So did you have a lease of business premises? If so, were your statutory rights as T (Part II of LTA 1954) excluded before it began?
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

  3. #3

    Default

    Thank you for your prompt reply, yes I do have a lease of a business premises.

    My statutory rights as T (Part II of LTA 1954) may not have been excluded before it began I cannot say for certain, - on going back through the lease it is an earlier copy (signed but no date) with a claim form (CPR Part8 ) that excludes the provisions of Sections 24-28 (inclusive) of the Act between me & the landlord followed by 3 grounds for the claim- this I have signed also.

    I have since had a call from the Landlords representation agency apologising in a round about way, presumably after news has got out by others tenants knowing my situation. The Statutory 30 day notice to quit could be extended as they may be able to negotiate a longer period to move. - Legally I feel I have to abide by the direct letter to quit that has been sent, I cannot trust phone calls. They have also admitted this has been handled badly, with no current lease to enforce & I should seek advice for obvious reasons.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    39,409

    Default

    But we do need to decide if the Part II protection was validly excluded. Depending on dates, that needed either:
    a. Court Order; or
    b. service of a special 'exclusion' Notice from L.

    If you have Part II protection, L's attempt to terminate is wholly unlawful. Only by now serving a six-month s.25 Notice could L achieve its aim.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

  5. #5

    Default

    The lease appears to have commenced in dec '03, with both the term & the rent commencing in april 03 well before the lease was signed, it was to terminate 3 years after in Apr '06.

    I was at that time in 03, as now, without a lease (albeit for about 9 months at that time as an even earlier lease had run out, requiring re-drafting & time to agree it). I am trying to get the actual lease from the solicitor but am finding the person concerned difficult to find as have no references.

    I am unaware of any Court Order - apart from Claim Form CPR Part 8 excluding S24 -28. Further I am equally unaware of being served a special 'exclusion' Notice from L apart from above.

    Do you think I am responsible for rent & utility bills outside the 3 yr lease or is this negotiable or even null and void? Again thank you for your valued assistance in this.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sheffield
    Posts
    39,409

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by arthur_raymond View Post
    ...I was at that time in 03, as now, without a lease (albeit for about 9 months at that time as an even earlier lease had run out, requiring re-drafting & time to agree it)...

    Do you think I am responsible for rent & utility bills outside the 3 yr lease or is this negotiable or even null and void?
    1. Anyone paying rent as T is probably a tenant/leaseholder, even if no written lease/Tenancy Agreement exists and is currently running.
    2. So anyone in that case cannot simultaneously claim to have right to possession (as T) but no obligation to pay rent (for lack of lease!)
    3. As to utilities and UBR/Water Rates etc., this largely depends on whethe the demands are sent to L or to T.
    4. In the absence of any written documentation between them, neither (if receiving demands) can easily prove the other's liability to pay!
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

  7. #7

    Default

    from your point in 1) does it follow
    as I have paid no rent /utilities since the expiration of the lease and only used it for storage/post rather than working office I am liable for them? I don't want to stay (for obvious reasons now), so will leave in the 30 days I feel I have no right to possession and life would be difficult (have I been a tenant at will?).

    Rates etc are paid by L and split 3 ways (unfairly as one tenant has 65% floor space with an much increased staff numbers and usage to back in '03, electric having to be upgraded a few years back through their needs). The only clauses I have under the lease regarding Total Expenditure (utilities) was a fair but capped yearly amount proportional to the landlord.

    thank you again

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    393

    Default

    If you didnt want it when your lease ended why didnt you hand the keys back to the landlord?

    You happily continued to utilise the property for over 3 years but feel you are entitled to do so for free!

    Who is really being unreasonable here?

  9. #9

    Default

    Don - you are missing the concern I have, with no contract and uncertain utility costs hovering over me which are now disproportionate, what or how much am I legally liable for that is deemed fair and reasonable. Faced with a possible large bill already for a report for things I would have undertaken anyway as a outgoing tenant, without informing me is just one cost within days.

Similar Threads

  1. Lease extension- 35 years unexpired; can T's family help?
    By JimmyTheWig in forum Long Leasehold Questions
    Replies: 66
    Last Post: 15-03-2011, 10:18 AM
  2. Assignment of existing lease or new lease
    By stark77 in forum Commercial Property Questions
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 10-08-2010, 10:03 AM
  3. Expired Lease - Any saleable value for tenant?
    By colinhunn in forum Commercial Property Questions
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 23-02-2009, 22:36 PM
  4. Lease expired - tenant continued paying rent - now leaving
    By RBrowning1958 in forum Commercial Property Questions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 23-02-2009, 13:45 PM
  5. Privity of contract- original tenant's continuing liability?
    By franb in forum Commercial Property Questions
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 11-12-2008, 14:59 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •