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Nov, 2014

Saturday

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  1. #1

    Default Judges are a law unto themselves

    Any one had an issue with our "learned friends".

    Went to court on 5th Nov- including letter from T & cheque for arrears. We were awarded costs & adjourned until 28 Nov for payment of expenses & cheque to clear (bounced !). Next hearing should be a "formality"....

    T sent our sol, a defense treatise yesterday including new set of "damp" issues. In the hearing today (new judg.ess) accepted the document, ignored the reason for being there was for arrears payment, wasn't interested in the obvious time wasting issue or why this wasn't filed months ago. Not bothered about rubber cheque or expenses not paid. Noticed T format is from Shelter website ..

    She has now said for T to file counter claim, we set out defence etc..... ie back in court January. What the hell was wrong in sorting out this case & other issues via small claims court (which we were advised to do re. pig sty & theft by T )
    Our sol suggests we write to the original judge over unfairness of subsequent result.

    Thoughts ? (we are seriously considering using any unemployed Al Quaida boys to help.....)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Yorkshire
    Posts
    24,592

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    Quote Originally Posted by normski View Post
    Any one had an issue with our "learned friends".

    Went to court on 5th Nov- including letter from T & cheque for arrears. We were awarded costs & adjourned until 28 Nov for payment of expenses & cheque to clear (bounced !). Next hearing should be a "formality"....

    T sent our sol, a defense treatise yesterday including new set of "damp" issues. In the hearing today (new judg.ess) accepted the document, ignored the reason for being there was for arrears payment, wasn't interested in the obvious time wasting issue or why this wasn't filed months ago. Not bothered about rubber cheque or expenses not paid. Noticed T format is from Shelter website ..

    She has now said for T to file counter claim, we set out defence etc..... ie back in court January. What the hell was wrong in sorting out this case & other issues via small claims court (which we were advised to do re. pig sty & theft by T )
    Our sol suggests we write to the original judge over unfairness of subsequent result.

    Thoughts ? (we are seriously considering using any unemployed Al Quaida boys to help.....)
    My thoughts are as floows:

    1 Why shouldn't your tenant seek help with his defence from Shelter? Do you have a problem with that?

    2 A female judge is still called a judge, not some daft perversion of the title.

    3 If you want the legal system to take you seriously, you may wish to consider learning to express yourself more clearly.

    4 Given what has just happened in India, your last comment is so tasteless as to be unanswerable.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by normski View Post
    Any one had an issue with our "learned friends".
    One does not refer to a judge as m'learned friend. That title is used, as a matter of etiquette, by barristers to refer to each other in an impersonal and professional manner in open court.

    A lady district judge is addressed as ma'am.

    Quote Originally Posted by normski View Post
    T sent our sol, a defense treatise yesterday including new set of "damp" issues. In the hearing today (new judg.ess) accepted the document, ignored the reason for being there was for arrears payment, wasn't interested in the obvious time wasting issue or why this wasn't filed months ago. Not bothered about rubber cheque or expenses not paid. Noticed T format is from Shelter website ..
    The T's claim for disrepair might not have been mentioned at the procedurally correct time because the tenant was not in receipt of legal advice and so did not know that a counter-claim for disrepair can set off arrears and avoid possession.

    I remember one case I had where T was being evicted for £3k arrears. It turned out from information I gathered from him in conference just 10 minutes before the case was due to be called on that he had been without heating or hot water for almost 2 years out of 3. In the end, the housing assocation settled the case by dropping the possession claim (which they would have lost anyway) and giving him, IIRC, £2k in damages (£5k total damages).

    I can understand your frustration if the tenant is telling porkies, but he/she is entitled to have this issue aired in a proper hearing after service of the appropriate evidence. I'm sure that if the bank wished to repossess your house, but you only discovered you had a defence at the last moment, then you would expect the justice system to give you a fair crack of the whip.

    Quote Originally Posted by normski View Post
    Our sol suggests we write to the original judge over unfairness of subsequent result.

    Thoughts ?
    My thoughts are that your solicitor either does not know or does not understand the appeals process. Writing a letter to the judge will probably get you nowhere as she will not revisit the issue via that route.
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    I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

    All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

  4. #4

    Default

    I can understand this 100%.

    I was an agent for 5 years, had over 300 properties and never ever had to evict anyone, however, I ended up in court after I deducted £75 from a tenants bond for cleaning a carpet.

    The tenant had been in the property for about three years, was in general a good tenant apart from the fact she paid by cheque, normally a day or two beyond rent due day, so by time it had cleared it would be a week late, but I knew it would always turn up and let it go.

    She served notice and two weeks before departure I conducted a pre-check out inspection. The dining room carpets had a HUGE stain (red wine) and I informed her she should have it cleaned. The rest of the carpets were also quite dirty too. On the day of check out I was met by her sister at the door who wouldn't come in and literally threw the keys at me and said 'see ya' with a cocky smirk.

    Obviously the carpets hadn't been cleaned. I got all the carpets cleaned the next day as a tenant was due in the day after. The cost was deducted from her deposit and I paid the difference back by cheque within 3 days of her being out.

    When she returned she sent my cheque back by return asking for the full amount, I refuted her claim and told her wine stains aren't the landlords responsibility and of course she sent it to the claim court.

    8 months later we seen our day in court, my client (the landlord) backed my all the way and came to court to support me and she turned up with her two children in tow. She was told they couldn't go into court and we waited over three hours until she could get child care.

    Eventually we got in front of m'lord and he asked me how I could deduct the cost from the bond. I showed him the contract which I sourced from the RLA and pointed it out on three occasions where it said damages etc would be deducted. Told him I had an inventory signed by the tenant confirming the carpets were brand new when she moved in, I had a photographic inventory and photo's of the damage.

    I said that the landlord had the benefit of the rent and that he would award it in favour of the tenant. I told him you can't rent a car and piss on the back seats and then take it back without a cleaning charge but he just bullied me into paying the £75 + £50 costs.

    I was gobsmacked, the whole process took less than 5 minutes. I say to this day he did it because he couldn't be bothered to listen to the facts and just did what a lot of them do and favour the tenant because they (like a lot of people) see landlords as millionaires with money to throw about

    Can't agree on the al'qaida comment though

  5. #5

    Default ...i knew it could not have been a private landlord....had to be local authority or s

    Quote Originally Posted by agent46 View Post

    I remember one case I had where T was being evicted for £3k arrears. It turned out from information I gathered from him in conference just 10 minutes before the case was due to be called on that he had been without heating or hot water for almost 2 years out of 3. In the end, the housing assocation settled the case by dropping the possession claim (which they would have lost anyway) and giving him, IIRC, £2k in damages (£5k total damages).

    .....
    I knew this could not have been a private landlord in my area! A private landlord would probably have been sent to prison! In my area, all that a tenant has to do is to contact Environmental Health officers, and they would ensure the landlord is made to perform all manner of repairs. They however do nothing if the landlord is the council or a housing association.

    To the original poster, I recommend that you simply serve the notice to obtain possession and let that run its course, in parallel with anything else that is being done. That way, you atleast will get possession in perhaps one years time. You will need to write off any rent arrears/damge to property, and be thankful that you will one day be rid of the tenant. Write off all the rent and pay up any damages a court will award the tenant. I would seriously consider negotiating with the tenant an amicable settlement whereby you pay him a reasonable sum of money in return for vacating the property. It will be in the end lot less than paying legal etc costs.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    County Durham
    Posts
    25

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    Quote Originally Posted by mind the gap View Post
    My thoughts are as floows:

    1 Why shouldn't your tenant seek help with his defence from Shelter? Do you have a problem with that?

    2 A female judge is still called a judge, not some daft perversion of the title.

    3 If you want the legal system to take you seriously, you may wish to consider learning to express yourself more clearly.

    4 Given what has just happened in India, your last comment is so tasteless as to be unanswerable.
    That stinks! I'm about to take a tenant to court for non payment of rent and we are sure she is going to counter claim for harassment. We're just preparing ourselves for that. Fingers crossed.

  7. #7

    Default You lot are unlucky

    Where I am i have been up before the courts 3 times and each time they are clear and resolute, take no cra p from tenants with silly excuses and issue evictions or force them to pay. no question. I have every confidence in the county courts.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syd73 View Post
    That stinks! I'm about to take a tenant to court for non payment of rent and we are sure she is going to counter claim for harassment. We're just preparing ourselves for that. Fingers crossed.
    Perhaps she feels that you have been harrassing her. If you haven't then, all things being equal, you should defeat her counterclaim.
    Health Warning


    I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

    All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

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