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  1. #1
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    Default Does service of S21 notice remove need for T's N to Q?

    Since the service of a S.21 notice does not bring an AST to an end, what is the justification for the often asserted proposition that if a landlord serves a S. 21 notice and the tenancy has become periodic the tenant need not serve notice to quit to bring the tenancy to an end?

  2. #2
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    The tenant can leave at anytime without any further liability to rent once a S.21 has been served and it is periodic or the fixed term has ended. They don't have to stay the length of your Notice which landlords often think is the case so that probably answers your question.
    The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul_f View Post
    The tenant can leave at anytime without any further liability to rent once a S.21 has been served and it is periodic or the fixed term has ended. They don't have to stay the length of your Notice which landlords often think is the case so I think that answers your question.

    No it does not!

    You really should stop repeating this nonsense as it is utterly irresponsible.

    Legal argument (which Paul F didn't have an answer to) on this point, is contained in this thread here: http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=10959
    Last edited by agent46; 15-07-2008 at 19:06 PM. Reason: Realised that OP was not in search of advice after all....
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  4. #4
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    But what is the basis for Paul F's view?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawcruncher View Post
    But what is the basis for that view?
    I think you know the answer

    But have a read of this thread here anyway: http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...ad.php?t=10959
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    I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

    All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawcruncher View Post
    But what is the basis for Paul F's view?
    I'm not sure. If you read the other thread you will see that I asked him to back up his arguments, but (as usual) he stayed well clear.
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    I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

    All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

  7. #7
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    Had a quick look at the thread. Perhaps you can clarify one point. I think you said that the tenant can leave at any time after the S 21 notice expires. If you did, why is it that the tenant can leave after, but not before, the expiration of the notice?

  8. #8
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    At a guess it's because the landlord has stated he wants possession after the notice expires not before otherwise he might have served it earlier.

    Do you have any case law in this regard agent or jeffrey?

    Is there a difference for instance in the tenant leaving the day after the notice and say 3 years after the notice!
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawcruncher View Post
    Had a quick look at the thread. Perhaps you can clarify one point. I think you said that the tenant can leave at any time after the S 21 notice expires. If you did, why is it that the tenant can leave after, but not before, the expiration of the notice?
    I can't recall off the top of my head, but I imagine that my reasoning was as follows: the s.21 notice, in that it states "the LL requires possession after [date]" amounts to an offer to surrender after the date of expiry and the tenant, in giving up possession accepts that offer. Further or alternatively, the LL is estopped from holding the tenant to a further period of possession as this would be contrary to his expressed desire to possess the property after the date of expiry of the notice.
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    I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

    All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by House View Post

    Is there a difference for instance in the tenant leaving the day after the notice and say 3 years after the notice!
    That's a good point.

    Thinking "out loud", off the top of my head here and counter-arguments are welcomed.......I think that if the tenant leaves on the date of expiry of the s.21 notice they should be OK, but if T remains in possession, then as the tenancy has still not ended in the proper fashion (ie: by order of the court), and they have not accepted the LL's offer to surrender, another SPAST may arise and, if so, T would need to serve a NTQ. Alternatively, T could argue that the words "the LL requires possession after [date]" amounts to an open-ended offer to surrender at any time after the date of expiry, which he accepts by returning the keys at a time of his choosing. The LL could, of course, counter-argue that T, by remaining in possession after the date of expiry, has, in effect, made a counter-offer which extinguishes the LL's offer to surrender and T is therefore himself estopped from leaving without serving NTQ.

    I am by no means 100% confident about the above arguments, but I cannot see any holes in my arguments in the other linked thread concerning T leaving before expiry of the s.21 notice. As always however, I'm happy to be proved wrong by reasoned arguments....
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    I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

    All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

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