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Ben1867
24-02-2008, 16:07 PM
Have managed to submit a possession claim via PCOL on grounds 8, 10 and 11 for repossession of a flat for non-payment of rent. The site has given me a court date of 10 March.

I filled in all the options on the site as best I could, but there's no way to attach any form of evidence about the claim.

I was thinking I would need:

- copy of tenancy agreement
- table showing payments due, payments made and total arrears at time of hearing (with dates etc)
- bank statements showing what payments had been received
- copies of correspondence between me and tenant (one way traffic!)
- Asking for the rent to be calculated on a daily basis from the date of the hearing

Can I just take all this stuff to court on the day, or do I need to send it in to them some time beforehand?

Also, should I take anything else along? Is the hearing fairly formal (should I wear a suit etc)?

Thanks a lot for your advice.

Surrey
24-02-2008, 16:48 PM
...Also, should I take anything else along? Is the hearing fairly formal (should I wear a suit etc)?

Thanks a lot for your advice.

Sorry, not done PCOL so can't answer that bit, but DEFINITELY look smart. The judge will expect a degree of respect, and so dressing appropriately is essential. It is possible that your tenant will not, which would only serve your cause.

Yes, it is very stupid, but that's just how it is.

johnboy
24-02-2008, 17:51 PM
Also keep your answers as short as poss (yes/no when poss) take all info with you to court. I also type out a basic sumery to have in front of me for easy ref if asked a question listing

1 TENANTS NAME

2 AST START DATE

3 AST END DATE

4 RENT DUE DATE AND AMOUNT (IF DIFFERENT TO START DATE)

5 FULL ADDRESS OF PROPERTY

6 FULL DETAILS OF GROUNDS SEEKING PO(dont forget to send copy to tenant when serving section 8)

7 TOTAL RENT PAID BY TENANT UP TO SET DATE OF HEARING (NEAREST RENT DAY)

8 TOTAL OF CORRECT RENT THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PAID UP TO SAME DAY

9TOTAL ARREARS AMOUNT (I ALSO HAVE A CLEAR SPREAD SHEET OF ALL PAYMENTS PAID AND DATES WHICH I SEND TO THE COURT WHEN APPLYING FOR A HEARING)

I have found so far (4 times now)this works for me and i dont have to start digging around for info if asked a question.

Also there is a good chance that as soon as the tenant if he is there starts talking he will dig a deeper and deeper hole for himself when he trys to explain why he hasnt rent due rent.

I havent done it on line before so dont know how it works. But normally you send a copy of ast, arrears, proof of postage when served, fee, and section 8 plus the correct N form (cant remember which one)

Ben1867
24-02-2008, 18:18 PM
But that's just it... online there's no way to attach all that stuff to the claim, and no instructions as to how / when / what to send to the court.

Can I just bring it all along on the day (plus copies for the judge), or do I need to send it in to the court a minimum time before the hearing?

johnboy
24-02-2008, 18:42 PM
Phone the court and ask other than that i dont know

Ericthelobster
24-02-2008, 18:46 PM
But that's just it... online there's no way to attach all that stuff to the claim, and no instructions as to how / when / what to send to the court.

Can I just bring it all along on the day (plus copies for the judge), or do I need to send it in to the court a minimum time before the hearing?I'd find it very hard to believe that the court wouldn't want it all submitted in advance. But I haven't done PCOL either.

Surrey
24-02-2008, 22:41 PM
Good advice - phone the court and ask the court staff. If they start saying "we cannot give legal advice", remind them that you are not asking for LEGAL advice but PROCEDURAL advice.

Ben1867
25-02-2008, 12:00 PM
Tried for ages but can't get through. I'll get hold of them eventually and let you know...

SALL
26-02-2008, 15:06 PM
Ben, If you do get through please let us know here. I am also in the process of starting a case on PCOL.

Ben1867
26-02-2008, 15:32 PM
I did get through to the court, but the advice wasn't very helpful - nobody seemed to know anything. There's no "instructions for landlords" anywhere on the internet as far as I can make out.

Feels like the whole thing is designed to catch me out and allow the tenant to remain in the flat free forever on a technicality.

Anyway, the lady I spoke to said just bring it along on the day - tenancy agreement, copies of notices, up to date summary of arrears and what you are claiming for.

In a way this does make sense, as I doubt the judges etc have time to wade through everything before the hearing anyway. They already have the forms generated by the website - what I bring along will be supporting info. She said the tenant must have a copy - but in effect he already has, as of course I've served all the notices and sent all the correspondence I want to use as evidence to him already.

I still don't feel comfortable about this though.

Two more questions:

- tenant now claims he wants to pay up on the day and get a suspended eviction order. Is this possible / what does it mean?
- The s21 notice I also served will have run out, so whatever happens surely he has to go. Will the judge take this into account or is s21 the stuff of a totally separate hearing?

Thanks for your help.

jeffrey
26-02-2008, 15:41 PM
Tenant now claims he wants to pay up on the day and get a suspended eviction order. Is this possible / what does it mean?
This is dicing-with-death stuff. You could accept it but ONLY if T produces a Bank Draft in your favour (covering rent, interst for late payment, Court costs, and your legal fees)- not a cheque, not a BACS, not cash [money laundering problems?], not a promise/excuse/guarantee. Personally, I wouldn't accept it otherwise.

P.Pilcher
26-02-2008, 16:04 PM
Regrettably if your tenant pays you enough on the day to get his arrears below two months then the grant of a possession order is no longer mandatory. You only then have grounds 10 and 11 about persistent late payment and irregular payment to fall back on and here the judge can use his discression as to whether a possission order is granted and judges tend to favour tenants.
Your section 21 order is quite separate and has no effect on your section 8 action. Provided the paperwork is in order and the correct notice has been given, the grant of the possession order is mandatory. (Regrettably some judges don't seem to realise this). Hence you have correctly issued a section 21 notice as a back up to your section 8 action.

P.P.

jeffrey
26-02-2008, 16:08 PM
Remember that paying by cheque (which is what defaulters usually try, at the door of the Court) is not "paying". Only cleared funds will do.

Ben1867
26-02-2008, 18:44 PM
I expect he will try and pay by cheque or some other such nonsense, as he is very good at causing delays etc. I definitely won't accept that as payment as he's had more than enough time to arrange for funds to clear before the hearing if that's what he intends to do.

Given the s21 will have run out, if the s8 action doesn't get me the possession order, what should I do? Can you start proceedings for that immediately the notice period runs out?

swinefever
27-02-2008, 15:48 PM
Yes, you can start proceedings straight away with the s21. I would use the accelerated possession route.

Just out of interest, when serving your s8, how detailed were your explanations of why you were relying on each ground? Relying on Ground 8 and Ground 11, mine were simliar to the following:

Ground 8 - Rent is due at £x per calendar month. To date the rent is £x in arrears which is equivalent to 5 months of unpaid rent.

Ground 11 - During the period of the tenancies, the tenant has failed to pay rent on time, if at all, at least 7 times. Specifically, in the current 6 month fixed tenancy, the tenant to date, has made failed to pay at all. It is currently 3 months into the tenancy.

I'm concerned that i have not been detailed enough, although the tenant has been provided with statements showing details of the arrears. Reckon this will be acceptable to the judge?

stuco
27-02-2008, 21:45 PM
We have gone down the PCOL route and it is quite straightforward, although at the time, we didn't have a clue what to expect. You don't need to submit any evidence before hand but you do need to have it all to hand on the day.
Following advice given on this forum we had 2 identical ringbinders, 1 for ourselves and 1 for the judge. As he asked for particular items (copy of tenancy agreement, rent arrears calendar etc) we were able to refer him to the correct page in his copy. To be honest he only seemed interested in making sure there had been 14 days between the s.8 notice issued and the court proceedings started, and seeing the AST.

We also made the mistake of not asking for rent from the court date until the T actually goes, so make sure you do this.

We were in with the judge about 5 minutes, but about 2 hours hanging around before hand. I think it was worse in our case as our T had not shown and the court bailiff was giving him time to turn up. (of course we had nothing better to do:rolleyes: )

Hope this helps

Ben1867
04-03-2008, 18:39 PM
Court case is set for Monday... I am nervous but thinking this through logically I've done everything right and there's no way the judge is going to just say "OK, tenant, you can live there rent free for life. Sorry landlord, but you have to subsidise him".

One other thing I found out though that may be of interest to others:

His deposit is protected by the DPS, and in order to get hold of it in order to put it towards the rent arrears, you need to get the court to specifically state that they should release it for that purpose.

Otherwise they disregard the arrears and won't release the money unless both parties agree to the correct amounts.

Something tells me I'll need all the deposit and more just to clean up his filthy mess when he finally does go.

The only comfort to this situation is - it will be resolved eventually, and I can move on with my life and forget it. However, he will always remain a grubby, filthy little man who nobody in their right mind will have any respect for (he can pay but chooses not to). I suspect after ripping me off he'll go on and do the same to poor old Johnny Taxpayer.

hello2011
04-10-2011, 10:58 AM
I submitted my possession claim via PCOL.

I was thinking of doing a evidence pack that will include my witness statement and send to court about 2 weeks before the hearing date.

can someone help:

do i need to send a copy of the pack to the tenant as well? or just update of the rent schedule?

does anyone have covering letter i can send to the court with the evidence pack

thank you

Snorkerz
09-10-2011, 12:23 PM
I submitted my possession claim via PCOL.

I was thinking of doing a evidence pack that will include my witness statement and send to court about 2 weeks before the hearing date.

can someone help:

do i need to send a copy of the pack to the tenant as well? or just update of the rent schedule?

does anyone have covering letter i can send to the court with the evidence pack

thank youThe post above seems to suggest you don't need to send an evidence pack in advance of the hearing. However, your tenant must have a copy of anything you intend to rely upon - a minimum of 14 days before the hearing.

Ericthelobster
09-10-2011, 15:44 PM
The post above seems to suggest you don't need to send an evidence pack in advance of the hearing. However, your tenant must have a copy of anything you intend to rely upon - a minimum of 14 days before the hearing.Just trying to remember the exact process that was involved last time I was involved with this; as far as I can remember I sent three copies of my bundle into the court and they then put an official court stamp on it and sent one copy out to the defendant?