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Joelp3333
10-02-2008, 00:31 AM
Hi All,

I have had a problem tenant that moved into my property in September 2006 she has been a nightmare ever since , demanding all sorts of improvements above and beyond, I have all catered for in the given time... She has a case worker working for a housing trust who has added fuel to the fire on many occasions involving the environmental health and the Health and safety executive , both organisations have signed works off and carried out various investigations and are happy with my even cooperating.

I am 2mths 3 weeks into the notice, the tenant is refusing to move out or pay so I am getting a court order and CCJs registered , she has threatened to burn the house down and come to my address!,Threatened the health and safety executive officer (when they are on her side lol!) and threatened my solicitor with violence! The police have been fantastic and have arrested and bailed her with conditions (i.e. not to contact me)

She is threatening to take me to court (with one of these no win no fee gang) to sue for "damages" to her children suffered through lack of heating (Sept, Oct and Nov - the warmest autumn / winter in 360 years!) etc when I have always provided sufficient heating and bowed to every demand resealing windows etc , she is over 2mths late with rent and nearly 3mths since I served her notice. Would any court in the land award anything to such a troublesome immoral person and nearly 18mths after the event?

Also a bit worried about her trashing the place , I have told the police that this is likely and all they tell me is that it would develop into a civil matter , although I could seek criminal damage conviction. I cannot return to the house to collect the keys (she has probably changed the locks!), Do I have to be there in person when the bayliffs evict her?

She seems to be taking advice from the council whom are apparently refusing to house her without a court order is that common? Also will they house her (i.e. not a hostel) if she owes rent and criminally damages a property?

All the best !

PS. ALL PLEASE REGISTER WITH http://www.landlordexpert.co.uk/ to help change the law.

johnboy
10-02-2008, 07:08 AM
Most important thing is to get her out ASAP.

A lot of councils dont rehouse until the courts serve a possesion order

I dont think you have to be there when the baylif turns up but have a locksmith or a friend who can be there to change locks and surcure the property.

Bel
10-02-2008, 07:28 AM
You might be interested in posts by Mrs Dingle; who had a nightmare tenant.

She managed to get very swift possession through the section 8 route by liasing very closing with her local court and bailiffs as action was urgent.





Use the search on the blue bar above. Chose advanced options.

Joelp3333
10-02-2008, 10:59 AM
I can really relate to Mrs Dingle , I must have her tenant's "firestarter" sister in my place!

I have served a s21 notice in November the two months passed so I went to a solicitor who has sorted the court papers out. I am currently 1 week into this , slightly confused as the tenant gets two weeks to "defend" herself when my grounds for posession are mandatory as the assured shorthold has expired (20th January)? So another 3 weeks at least if she doesnt defend herself?!?

In terms of the bailiff , I think that the police will be in order.... what do I do if all of her belongings are left in the property? Do I have to keep them for a period or does she get the opportunity to pack them up with bailiff there?

:confused:

johnboy
10-02-2008, 12:19 PM
I had a tenant defend a s21 (it was my first time in my life in court) didnt make any differance a possession order was given.

Once the bailif has been in and evited her any belonging i think you may have to store for a period of time but not nessasary on the premises.

Joelp3333
10-02-2008, 20:32 PM
I have just returned from the police station where I have given a statement of events.

Again the officer was very helpful and understanding (although he is creeping into the civil remit!)

Believe it or not , whilst I was there a call came in from the neighbours of my property stating that someone was brandishing a gun at my property...I dont think that I will be going round to collect it in future if they ever paid!

I will follow this through but surely a change in the law is needed for these people.:eek:

johnboy
10-02-2008, 20:51 PM
The joys of renting. One of my tenants has just been locked up for kidnap the police turned up and they were not the local plod they looked and sounded liked extras from the sweeney.

Paul_f
10-02-2008, 21:11 PM
Changing the law is really most unlikely. Frustration is why posters generally do call for changes and I can understand why - but there are fairly adequate measures in place already, it's just that people don't act soon enough.

Joelp3333
11-02-2008, 08:12 AM
Paul agreed I am frustrated, but when someone threatens to burn your house down etc I think that there should be an immediate solution so that everyone is safe.

I have served all notices in time and this will still take me (after the two month statutory) another 6 weeks, with no rent and the threat of my house being trashed.

Thanks for the support in a tough situation!

jeffrey
11-02-2008, 08:44 AM
When someone threatens to burn your house down etc I think that there should be an immediate solution so that everyone is safe.
Yes, there are:
a. civil procedures (grounds 9 and 14 of s.8 of 1988 Act and/or injunction); and
b. criminal procedures (Criminal Damage Act 1971- threat of arson is an offence).

Joelp3333
11-02-2008, 09:11 AM
Jeffrey

Thankyou I am going to ask my solicitor about this straight away.

attilathelandlord
11-02-2008, 11:52 AM
Unlikely in the extreme a judge will give possession on Grounds 10 & 11 alone, especially if the tenant is an assured one.

The landlord is trying it on, hoping to get rid of his assured tenant.

Speak to a solicitor, but I don't believe you have anything to worry about.

Surrey
11-02-2008, 21:39 PM
I suspect attilla has answered in the wrong thread. In case you hadn't noticed :D

Joelp3333
12-02-2008, 07:27 AM
I did wonder .... lol

Tenant was arrested yesterday and charged with intent to cause criminal damage. The police officer stated that she did not do herself any favours at all.

She is due in court on 21st to answer the charges. If she is found guilty is there any way that we can expedite her moving out due to the nature of the charge? If not is there any way that we could get the bailiffs involved in parallel to the court order?

Thanks!

jeffrey
12-02-2008, 09:06 AM
Yes. There is no waiting period at all under ground 14: serve Notice and then, next day, lodge Court application.

attilathelandlord
12-02-2008, 09:09 AM
Yes wrong thread, meant to be in the assured tenant prob one but don't know how to move it. That Night Nurse stuff is dynamite, am losing control!

jeffrey
12-02-2008, 09:12 AM
Oo, er, I've heard about those naughty night nurses- I think that a Scandinavian film expose revealed what happens...

attilathelandlord
12-02-2008, 09:18 AM
Really Jeffrey, I didn't think you stooped to such levels! (got a link to the site?!!!)

Joelp3333
12-02-2008, 17:51 PM
Thanks !

I am in the process of a s21 now, granting automatic posession (in c3 weeks).

Couple of questions if I may ;

1. If I lodge a "14" Vs the tenant will the notice above then be invalid - tenant has one week left to claim a defence as I would not want to risk that?
2. Can I serve the forms myself at court?

Thankyou again.

Joelp3333
13-02-2008, 11:43 AM
Hi all again!

I Have spoken to a colleague and she's suggested that I submit a letter to the Courts for the judge to read prior to the hearing next thursday, requesting immediate possession in light of the recent arrest of the tenant.

The letter needs to provide and overview of the situation with complete police details with respect to the offence. The letter should get me possession with immediate effect as opposed to giving the tenant 2 weeks to vacate from the court date as is the norm.

Is this valid given that I am not evicting under a s21 14 ? I.e. I am evicting on the basis that the agreement has ended and am selling...

Thanks

jeffrey
13-02-2008, 11:51 AM
Hi all again!

I Have spoken to a colleague and she's suggested that I submit a letter to the Courts for the judge to read prior to the hearing next thursday, requesting immediate possession in light of the recent arrest of the tenant.

The letter needs to provide and overview of the situation with complete police details with respect to the offence. The letter should get me possession with immediate effect as opposed to giving the tenant 2 weeks to vacate from the court date as is the norm.

Is this valid given that I am not evicting under a s21 14 ? I.e. I am evicting on the basis that the agreement has ended and am selling...

Thanks
Still confusion here, it seems.
Section 21 procedure is not fault-based.
Section 8 procedure (ground 14) is fault-based.
You are seeking to evict T on basis of one or both of those sections- not simply that "the agreement has ended and [that I] am selling"!

Joelp3333
13-02-2008, 12:03 PM
Sorry for the confusion, I am looking to evict the tenant on the basis of a
s21Accelerated Possession Claim - i.e. notice was served 2 months ago and she is refusing to budge.

I would also like the judge to consider the recent arrest for threatening criminal damage and the threat to my property the tenant poses (think that this is s21 ground 14?) but not as a separate "court action".

I wondered if the judge would take it into consideration as I believe that somthing will happen to my property if the tenant is left in there for any additional time!

Thanks again

Joelp3333
13-02-2008, 12:07 PM
P.S. I am claiming that additional evidence has come to light / happened since the original claim for repossession of my property was served to court / on tenant.

jeffrey
13-02-2008, 12:11 PM
Sorry for the confusion...
I would also like the judge to consider the recent arrest for threatening criminal damage and the threat to my property the tenant poses (think that this is s21 ground 14?) but not as a separate "court action".
LOOK:
Ground 14 is under s.8.
It's nothing to do with s.21.
Geddit?

Joelp3333
13-02-2008, 12:18 PM
Ahhh I see ...

So can I submit a letter for consideration for the judge and is he likely to take any notice of this? basically she has made various threats and been arrested and is due in court so the sooner she is out the better for all concerned.....

This is a nightmare!

Thanks

Joelp3333
13-02-2008, 12:21 PM
P.s. There has been a complaint made to the police regarding some anti-social behaviour by the next door neighbour!

Bel
14-02-2008, 09:43 AM
A letter will not do any harm, for sure, but it will need to be backed up by evidence.


If you rely on your s21 going through, they may give possession in 14 days after the hearing, and then you may have to instruct bailiffs which you may have to wait for weeks...depending on how you approach them and their prior commitments.

Mrs Dingle got from serving section 8 notice to baliff eviction in 53 days, by being very persuasive with courts and bailiffs.