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lady100
02-02-2008, 17:16 PM
hi, i have been refered to this forum by another website and i will post my querry as it was before.
hi,
am a first time landlord and finding problems with tenants. they have never paid the right amount of rent since moving in and that is four months ago. i was quite nice to them and did not take any deposit as they seemed to be honest when they said they only had enough to put down on the rent. they did seem like nice people.
after realising they are not willing to pay the right rent i sent a notice to end the tenancy agreement, sent this by recorded delivery and they chose not to recieve it. this got my alarm bells ringing so i rang them up, told them on the phone i was giving them notice, i even told them am planning to sell the property so they start looking to move out.
i have arranged several valuations with different estate agents but the tenants are not willing to give access to the property. they agree to appointments arranged and when the agents turn up, they ignore the door. one agent has reported seeing them thru the letter box.
i would appreciate any kind of advice on how to deal with this issue without it costing me a fortune. i do not want to sell just yet but it looks like i will be forced to sell. but again they are not giving access to the property so selling wouldnt be that easy. . please advise, and thanks in advance
lady100 is offline

Bel
02-02-2008, 17:35 PM
You will see from a few recent posts that although tenants should enable viewings, there is not much you can do to force the issue if they refuse, except get them out asap.

Did you serve a section 21 notice? Even though they chose not to receive it, it is deemed as served. You can always do it by hand and get a witness to see you do it, if it gives you peace of mind. Fill in a certificate of service.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=9131&highlight=certificate+service


A section 8 notice can be served as they are in breach of the aggreement due to arrears ; but it is only worth doing if there are over 2 months worth of arrears to be sure of possession through the courts.

Another option is to threaten them with the use of a debt collector to obtain payment (see posts by Rodent1)

lady100
02-02-2008, 18:35 PM
thanks bel for your reply. i will serve section 8 as there is more than 2 months in arrears. would like to know if there is a form for this notice as i want to word it correctly.
and about using debt collectors, how do i go about this?
and how do i fill in a certificate of service. sorry too many questions, i appreciate all the help

Beeber
02-02-2008, 18:47 PM
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/notice_to_quit.htm

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/Possession.htm

Note that landlords are generally recommended to serve an S21 as a back-up because tenants can thwart repossession by S8 by paying down arrears just before the court case.

Notices and possession information are here

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/agreements.htm

Landlords are generally recommended to be ultra careful in the way they complete and issue these documents as apparently a large number of court cases get thrown out for paperwork issues which mean that after waiting months for a court appearance, the landlord has to start from scratch again.

Bel
02-02-2008, 20:01 PM
thanks bel for your reply. i will serve section 8 as there is more than 2 months in arrears. would like to know if there is a form for this notice as i want to word it correctly.
and about using debt collectors, how do i go about this?
and how do i fill in a certificate of service. sorry too many questions, i appreciate all the help

You have 2 options: to research on the internet and this website all you need to know (use google) about serving section 8 notices. There are two different ways to search on this website; the forum search on the blue bar above (use advanced) and the macrosearch which is a bit more messy but reaches further. Letlink is also another good website. Lack of knowledge is what got you into this mess

Search under advanced forum search for posts by Rodent1

Once you have made a start and you are truly stumped, then by all means ask another question.

Good luck

or if you havent got time or inclination

Get direct legal advice from a GOOd solicitor with track record in tenancy law.



You can download a partially completed form here:

http://www.youngandpearce.co.uk/landlord-forms.htm

lady100
02-02-2008, 21:05 PM
thanks everyone for the quality advice. i now just need correction if am wrong. i will be issuing section8 on grounds 11. notice will be dated 4th/feb/2008 and court proceedings to commence after 17th/feb/2008. this will be posted by recorded delivery, first class un recorded delivery, and will also deliver a copy by hand which will be witnessed. am also going to start all over again with section 21 and will use all the 3 above deliveries.sec 21 will be 4th/feb/2008 requiring possesion in 4th/april/2008.

would like to know how to go about booking court hearing.

Bel
02-02-2008, 21:58 PM
thanks everyone for the quality advice. i now just need correction if am wrong. i will be issuing section8 on grounds 11. notice will be dated 4th/feb/2008 and court proceedings to commence after 17th/feb/2008. this will be posted by recorded delivery, first class un recorded delivery, and will also deliver a copy by hand which will be witnessed. am also going to start all over again with section 21 and will use all the 3 above deliveries.sec 21 will be 4th/feb/2008 requiring possesion in 4th/april/2008.

would like to know how to go about booking court hearing.

If you looked at the partially completed form for rent arrears on the link; you will see 2 other grounds which you should also use, just in case the tenant pays up, but you still want him out.

You must always allow extra time for service before your 2 weeks or 2 months starts

See this document for some details:
http://www.taxaid.org.uk/uploadedfiles/document/1_106_County_Court_procedures_(advisers).doc see section 4.15


Possession Proceedings
Once you have issued the section 8 notice on your tenant, you are required to wait until the notice has expired - this is the date you give on the notice.


If the tenant has not vacated, or paid up any rent arrears by this point, then it will be necessary to start court possession proceedings. This is done by obtaining the appropriate forms from your local court (forms N5 and N119) and payment of the appropriate court fee.




The dates for your s21 will depend on wether the tenants are still in the fixed term or not. If they are still in the fixed term, after allowing the required number of days for service, you must then allow a clear 2 months.

Resource:
http://www.letlink.co.uk/letting-factsheets/factsheets/factsheet-8---claims-for-possession-the-section-8-notice.html

lady100
03-02-2008, 19:18 PM
thanks bel. am adding grounds 8,10,11&12.
am also thinking of using moneyclaim online to chase up the debt. any one used them before? what are they like

justaboutsane
03-02-2008, 19:59 PM
YOu cannot sue for the debt twice... ie you cannot follow section 8 AND go for moneyclaimonline, you could however issue section 21 and moneyclaimonline.

Bel
03-02-2008, 22:47 PM
Yes; the bonus of the section 8 is that they also give a money judgement at the same time (if you ask for one)

lady100
04-02-2008, 11:58 AM
just one more question about s21. am sending it off today but to allow service time shoud it expire say 5th/april to allow two days for postage. also 5th falls on a weekend so does this day count or should it expire 7th/april which will be a monday the following week. thanks

lady100
04-02-2008, 12:01 PM
with s8 am using the partly filled in form and adding in ground 12 which will be hand written. is this acceptable . also with ground 8 do i have to tick what part of it applies ie rent paid monthly

jeffrey
04-02-2008, 12:07 PM
with s8 am using the partly filled in form and adding in ground 12 which will be hand written. is this acceptable . also with ground 8 do i have to tick what part of it applies ie rent paid monthly
Notice must specify:
a. upon which ground number(s) L is relying;
b. the exact (and full) wording of the ground(s) as appearing in Schedule 2 to the 1988 Act; and
c. upon precisely what conduct of T (action or omission) L is relying. For instance, it's not sufficient to state "Rent Arrears" if using g8/10/11. L should, in those cases, tabulate Rent Payable (dates/amounts) and Rent Received (dates/amounts) then net amount now unpaid. All of this needs to be attached to Notice.

lady100
04-02-2008, 18:07 PM
just wanted to thank everyone for the support and advise. i sent the notices off today and hope it all goes well

Bel
04-02-2008, 18:20 PM
It is safer to allow 3 days for postage; notice is deemed served the day after you would expect it to be there. And we cant rely on first class these days

johnboy
04-02-2008, 18:55 PM
ARLA recomend 2 working days

Surrey
04-02-2008, 21:39 PM
Pay no attention to what ARLA says, instead take heed of what the Civil Procedure Rules say in the part that deals with Service of Documents and deemed dates of service. After all, the judge doesn't give a stuff what ARLA says, so nor should you. "The Law" is the CPR, that's ALL that counts.

Bel
05-02-2008, 10:02 AM
It is safer to allow 3 days for postage; notice is deemed served the day after you would expect it to be there. And we cant rely on first class these days

I seem to have contradicted myself; 2 days after the day of posting is accepted.

stuco
05-02-2008, 16:14 PM
You can use possession claim online when using the s.8 route.

https://www.possessionclaim.gov.uk/pcol/

We started the court proceedings after the 14 day limit on the s.8 and it was very clear and straightforward using this system. It means you can go for possession and rent arrears.

lady100
15-02-2008, 12:18 PM
hi, i have finally managed to speak to the tenant today. he has been avoiding my calls since recieving the notices. court proceedings are to begin after 17/feb but they are not showing any signs of moving. he actually said to me "no one is having access to the property" and then hang up. is it possible to involve solictors at this stage as i really dont think i can manage, have got a new born and live quite far from the property. also can i only aepresantative be enough or do i have to be present too.

Bel
15-02-2008, 14:19 PM
You can use solicitors;

Disadvantage: cost, and they may want to serve their own notices to make sure everything is done right, so another time delay.

Its worth enquiring anyway.

lady100
15-02-2008, 14:55 PM
can any one recommend any solictors that are not too costly. just been in touch with a firm and they agreed to use my section 8 but their prices are quite high.

lady100
15-02-2008, 15:05 PM
i have just seen another firm called legal helpers.com and their prices seem reasonable. does any one know their contact details please as they only have a phone messege box and i really want to speak to someone rather than leave a messege

Bel
16-02-2008, 08:48 AM
i have just seen another firm called legal helpers.com and their prices seem reasonable. does any one know their contact details please as they only have a phone messege box and i really want to speak to someone rather than leave a messege

If that information is not readily available I would be worried to use the service.

http://www.landlordlaw.co.uk/
They have special kits to help you do your own possession, although you may have to become a memeber. They are specialist firm. Not sure on prices if you instruct them to represent you. Might be worth a chat on the phone with them.
I have not used them.