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View Full Version : Bank of England interest rates- down they go again!



Colincbayley
06-12-2007, 11:02 AM
Bank of England have just cut interest rates by 0.25%

Happy days are here again.

( Unless you are a saver, then unhappy days are here )

pcwilkins
06-12-2007, 14:26 PM
Bank of England have just cut interest rates by 0.25%

Happy days are here again.

I wouldn't bank on it. After all, who's going to buy a house now, when every other headline is screaming at us that prices are going down?

( Unless you are a saver, then unhappy days are here )[/QUOTE]

Am glad I took out that 7% fixed rate account...phew!

Peter

Colincbayley
06-12-2007, 14:30 PM
I wouldn't bank on it. After all, who's going to buy a house now, when every other headline is screaming at us that prices are going down?

That's the point. With lower interest rates the rental multipliers fit better, if no one is moving then we may get away with lower offers, and with a shortage of houses, rents will go up ( Just my view )

As I said, happy days.....

DianeB
06-12-2007, 20:24 PM
I wouldn't bank on it. After all, who's going to buy a house now, when every other headline is screaming at us that prices are going down?


Peter

I hope you're wrong. I've got a house due to go on the market in a couple of weeks time. Someone just put Christmas in the way!

There's talk of a further interest rate in January (fingers crossed).

lorenzo
06-12-2007, 21:24 PM
Watch LIBOR.

The BoE base rate may become irrelevant for mortgages.

...or, we may be turning Japanese, as some have warned. This may not be such good news for the medium term, this time.

DianeB
06-12-2007, 21:45 PM
...or, we may be turning Japanese, as some have warned. This may not be such good news for the medium term, this time.

I hope not. I don't like Sushi.

Can you explain LIBOR in layman's terms. Is it something to do with what banks charge each other?

lorenzo
06-12-2007, 21:52 PM
I hope not. I don't like Sushi.

Can you explain LIBOR in layman's terms. Is it something to do with what banks charge each other?
Basically, yes. It stands for London InterBank Overnight Rate.

Brit1234
07-12-2007, 00:34 AM
LIBOR rates are going to keep mortgages high. Its also going restrict the number of mortgages available, increase conditions and turn down many applicants.

Despite the interest cuts in the USA house prices are still falling fast. I think the UK market has gone to far down the same path and despite the cut public confidence is low. I predict prices will still fall for some time yet.

lorenzo
07-12-2007, 12:01 PM
Watch LIBOR.

The BoE base rate may become irrelevant for mortgages.

See ==>> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/12/07/cnbank107.xml&CMP=ILC-mostviewedbox


SNIP:

It coincided with a chilling warning from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development that the UK economy is heading for a major slowdown next year - and possibly a "significant slump" in house prices.

This month's short sterling futures, which indicate where the market expects the key benchmark interbank borrowing rate to be in two weeks' time, actually rose markedly after the Bank's decision - an almost unprecedented reaction. The pound also ended the day up slightly on its trade-weighted index - another highly unusual outcome on the day of an interest rate cut.

John Wraith of Royal Bank of Scotland said: "They haven't got the control over rates in the financial system that they ordinarily have.

"Historically, a 25-basis point change in Bank rate would lead to an almost identical change in Libor [the benchmark rate in the money market]. That hasn't happened."

pcwilkins
07-12-2007, 14:27 PM
I hope you're wrong.

I might well be. It's just that if I was thinking of buying a house, I wouldn't buy one now. I read somewhere that the average house has dropped over the last 3(?) months by £5k a month. Why would I buy something today that in a year could potentially be worth £60k less? Ok, extreme example but you see my point.

On the other hand, perhaps it's only me who thinks like that. I have noticed a marked downturn in our area --- houses are staying on the market for months and months, whereas a while back it might be weeks.

Peter

pcwilkins
07-12-2007, 14:29 PM
Is not LIBOR the commercial rate that tracks base...normally plus 1%??

I might be wrong

It doesn't just "track it". It's calculated daily by the BBA. The rate depends on the time period.

But if the BBA think the base rate is too low, they aren't bound to stick to it. See here:

http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/12/07/afx4416047.html

Peter

Colincbayley
07-12-2007, 15:30 PM
I might well be. It's just that if I was thinking of buying a house, I wouldn't buy one now. I read somewhere that the average house has dropped over the last 3(?) months by £5k a month. Why would I buy something today that in a year could potentially be worth £60k less? Ok, extreme example but you see my point.

On the other hand, perhaps it's only me who thinks like that. I have noticed a marked downturn in our area --- houses are staying on the market for months and months, whereas a while back it might be weeks.

Peter

The only problem with taking that view is that you may well be wrong and properties go the other way ( Up £5K a month )

It is hard, if not impossible to time any investment market.
As they say, if you are in it for the long term......

pcwilkins
08-12-2007, 13:57 PM
The only problem with taking that view is that you may well be wrong and properties go the other way ( Up £5K a month )

Yes, but my point is that it is a question of perception --- if you take any notice of the papers (and it's hard not to) you would get the impression that now is a bad time to buy.

But I take your point about being in it for the longterm --- if I needed a house now, I'd buy one no matter what. Just like a car or anything else.

Peter

Rodent1
09-12-2007, 01:55 AM
Yes, but my point is that it is a question of perception --- if you take any notice of the papers (and it's hard not to) you would get the impression that now is a bad time to buy.


Peter
If you took note of the papers then you will have noticed the bubble was about to burst for around 5 years .....and prob would never have bought;)

pcwilkins
10-12-2007, 09:39 AM
If you took note of the papers then you will have noticed the bubble was about to burst for around 5 years .....and prob would never have bought;)

Hmmm possibly. But they do seem to have become noticeably more gloomy recently.

Peter

Colincbayley
10-12-2007, 10:07 AM
Hmmm possibly. But they do seem to have become noticeably more gloomy recently.

Peter

If you want a true picture of what it says in the press, then read the papers/predictions from 12 months ago and see if they have come true.
No one knows for sure what will happen over the course of the next year, it is all guess work ( Might be an educated guess, but still a guess )

jeffrey
13-12-2007, 17:11 PM
Very true - but its usually easy to work out whats going to happen in the next 6 months !
Well said, Simhar.
Gosh; your posts are fascinating.

jeffrey
06-11-2008, 12:22 PM
Bloody hell.

3% !!!
...per day: not bad.

mind the gap
06-11-2008, 15:22 PM
I have seen ASTs with interest rates of 10% per day for late rent.

Quite possibly. However, they are unenforceable.

P.Pilcher
06-11-2008, 15:27 PM
In this "rip-off" country we never seem to benefit at all. You can bet your sweet bippy that interest rates on savings will fall like lightening, and the BoE have made their huge bank rate adjustment confident that their colleagues will make no changes in mortgage interest rates at all as they can blame the LIBOR rates. (I hope that I'm wrong!)

P.P.

jeffrey
06-11-2008, 15:39 PM
I have seen ASTs with interest rates of 10% per day for late rent.
Only for Tenancies granted by Sicily-based family financial enterprises.

jeffrey
06-11-2008, 16:59 PM
All that the loopy 1.5% cut will do is:
a. crank-up house prices again; and
b. stoke inflation something rotten.

Perhaps HMG has a death wish?

mind the gap
06-11-2008, 17:04 PM
All that the loopy 1.5% cut will do is:
a. crank-up house prices again; and
b. stoke inflation something rotten.



Or possibly :

a. price up cranks' houses; and
b. inflate and rot Stoke

jeffrey
06-11-2008, 17:07 PM
Or possibly :

a. price up cranks' houses; and
b. inflate and rot Stoke
Excellent. What monster have I created?

mind the gap
06-11-2008, 17:23 PM
Excellent. What monster have I created?

Either : A most delicate monster...a most scurvy monster...a most ridiculous mosnter, to make a wonder of a poor drunkard!

Or : Actually..wotch it, mush. Call me Frankenstein again and I'll send me Auntie Beryl up there to give you a Glasgow kiss.

jeffrey
06-11-2008, 17:32 PM
Either : A most delicate monster...a most scurvy monster...a most ridiculous mosnter, to make a wonder of a poor drunkard!

Or : Actually..wotch it, mush. Call me Frankenstein again and I'll send me Auntie Beryl up there to give you a Glasgow kiss.
NO! I expected you to know that Frankenstein was the scientist inventor, not the monster (never named and, anyway, not a baddie).

jeffrey
06-11-2008, 17:36 PM
Or possibly :

a. price up cranks' houses; and
b. inflate and rot Stoke
Stoke on Trent
is an anagram of
enterest kont
which sounds like
interest cut
but it's late and I'm leaving the office so ner.

Paul_f
06-11-2008, 17:44 PM
House prices will not go up (for the foreseeable future) as buyers still can't get a decent mortgage, and where do you think the 25% deposit will come from? What's more lenders are unliekly to pass on the full cut especially for new mortgages. It might prevent a further slide but we're still in deep doo doo!

mind the gap
06-11-2008, 17:44 PM
NO! I expected you to know that Frankenstein was the scientist inventor, not the monster (never named and, anyway, not a baddie).

(Sigh). Yes. I know that. However, speaking, as I wos, in role as the nasty igorant person wot I was pretending to be, I got it wrong on purpose. And I dint say he wos a baddie, neither. But you wunt want 'im in yer front room, wud yer?

justaboutsane
06-11-2008, 17:47 PM
Stoke on Trent
is an anagram of
enterest kont
which sounds like
interest cut
but it's late and I'm leaving the office so ner.

OI you pair... whats wrong with Stoke on Trent??

... then again whats right with it??


Oh yeah ... I live here ... and Robbie is here at the mo (where is the swoon emote???). Twice last week he was within reaching distance and I missed him :(

mind the gap
06-11-2008, 21:49 PM
OI you pair... whats wrong with Stoke on Trent??

... then again whats right with it??


Oh yeah ... I live here ... and Robbie is here at the mo (where is the swoon emote???). Twice last week he was within reaching distance and I missed him :(

Can you still reach your toes, that's the question? Sorry, that was a bit mean!

justaboutsane
07-11-2008, 06:42 AM
MIAOW!!!!

Nope I can't touch my toes, but I can still see them!... And anyway why do I want to touch my toes when I can hang around outside our local and get Robbie to kiss them!!! ..... Oh a girl can dream!

Mars Mug
07-11-2008, 07:38 AM
Oh yeah ... I live here ... and Robbie is here at the mo (where is the swoon emote???). Twice last week he was within reaching distance and I missed him

You need to adjust the spread on the shotgun to improve your chances ;)

Izzycam
07-11-2008, 07:55 AM
Re mind the gap,,,,,brilliant.

Worldlife
07-11-2008, 08:02 AM
Only for Tenancies granted by Sicily-based family financial enterprises.

..and their unlicensed debt collection services?

Mrs Jones
07-11-2008, 08:24 AM
If God wanted me to touch my toes he would have put chocolates on the floor......

P.Pilcher
07-11-2008, 11:36 AM
Ah! - Stoke on Trent. Back in the days of Harold Wilson or was it Jim Callahagn, they were having problems with numerous small earthquakes. It didn't take long for some genius to work out why: the miners' strile had just been settled and they were were dropping their new pay packets!

P.P.

mind the gap
07-11-2008, 11:39 AM
If God wanted me to touch my toes he would have put chocolates on the floor......

Love it. My son's variation on the theme : if God had intended us to take showers, he would have designed human being with their armpits facing upwards.

Don't ask!

jeffrey
07-11-2008, 11:59 AM
(Sigh). Yes. I know that. However, speaking, as I wos, in role as the nasty igorant person wot I was pretending to be, I got it wrong on purpose. And I dint say he wos a baddie, neither. But you wunt want 'im in yer front room, wud yer?
OK. Perhaps I mean Bram Stoker-on-Trent.

Sorrel
07-11-2008, 12:45 PM
Every time i'v been to Stoke its rained...in my experience its about as nice as Hull

mind the gap
07-11-2008, 13:35 PM
OK. Perhaps I mean Bram Stoker-on-Trent.

Bramston Pickle? Yes, please.

Izzycam
08-01-2009, 12:26 PM
I wonder if the "buy to let mortgage market" will pass this morning's rate drop on.
Me don't think so.

SALL
08-01-2009, 12:44 PM
I wonder if the "buy to let mortgage market" will pass this morning's rate drop on.
Me don't think so.

I am on a normal mortgage with consent to let. My lender has a guarantee that their SVR will never be more then 2% above base rate. So I think I'll get the rate cut.

Gigabyte
08-01-2009, 12:46 PM
well you can bet your bottom dollar that the interest rate on my savings will be put down immediately!

mind the gap
08-01-2009, 13:02 PM
well you can bet your bottom dollar that the interest rate on my savings will be put down immediately!

Yup. Just like when you put money into a bank (takes ages to appear in account) as opposed to when you spend it (instantly debited).

Izzycam
08-01-2009, 13:22 PM
yes I know MTG that really bugs me.

Izzycam
08-01-2009, 13:24 PM
It seems to me, (buy to let mortgages) that if they reduce the rates they claw it back in arrangement fees ect.

lorenzo
08-01-2009, 14:11 PM
well you can bet your bottom dollar that the interest rate on my savings will be put down immediately!

Exactly.

And if the #$%#^%$# imbecile Anatole Kaletsky gets his way, they'll tax your savings as well. (That is, in addition to the implicit taxation of savings via negative real interest rates and income tax on interest)

:mad:

jeffrey
08-01-2009, 14:14 PM
And if... Anatole Kaletsky gets his way, they'll tax your savings as well.
But David Cameron proposes precisely the opposite. They cannot both be correct!

lorenzo
08-01-2009, 14:31 PM
But David Cameron proposes precisely the opposite. They cannot both be correct!

The thinking behind Kaletsky's solution is to get savers to spend their money on investment and High Street tat. But they won't, they'll just put if offshore or under the bed, or in precious metals or something. The reason is that people feel like saving in a deflationary environment (wisely).

This will undermine the bank's balance sheets even further and ultimately perpetuate and worsen the present crisis.

Cameron's solution will encourage savings, may or may not deepen the recession in the very short term, but will shore up the capital base of both the banks and the wider economy. The investment and spending will come later (and probably quicker than AK's nonsense idea), ergo, healthier long term solution... and won't screw fixed income investors such as retirees.

Government needs to butt the #### out and let the market do it's job and readjust.

Gigabyte
08-01-2009, 14:59 PM
its a toughie! - Whilst I am certainly no Keynes

Kaletsky suggests following the well trodden path of borrowing our way out of debt. Its been done before and can be done again. But why? whenever there has been an economic situation govt's have borrowed their way out of it only to be back there a few years later. Surely it could be argued that the continual borrowing to buck recession simply fuels the boom and bust economy rather than letting the market slowly recover to a normal position?

surely it is better to reward the saver who will continue to be able to feed his family if he is made redundant than to reward the people who borrowed recklessly and are allowed to continue borrowing into bankruptcy. Whilst some of what Kaletsky says makes some sense its just a huge huge huge risk (but then I suppose most of economics is!) Okay so we dont have any interest at all on our savings, lets all go out buy a new car, new wardwrobe, lets buy a boat, and then bang you lose your job and boom its all gone. I guess you would just bank on the fact that increase in demand for commodites = more jobs. But if those jobs are created in China or wherever the whole thing goes tits up

such is life.

mind the gap
08-01-2009, 15:07 PM
its a toughie! - Whilst I am certainly no Keynes

Kaletsky suggests following the well trodden path of borrowing our way out of debt. Its been done before and can be done again. But why? whenever there has been an economic situation govt's have borrowed their way out of it only to be back there a few years later. Surely it could be argued that the continual borrowing to buck recession simply fuels the boom and bust economy rather than letting the market slowly recover to a normal position?

surely it is better to reward the saver who will continue to be able to feed his family if he is made redundant than to reward the people who borrowed recklessly and are allowed to continue borrowing into bankruptcy. Whilst some of what Kaletsky says makes some sense its just a huge huge huge risk (but then I suppose most of economics is!) Okay so we dont have any interest at all on our savings, lets all go out buy a new car, new wardwrobe, lets buy a boat, and then bang you lose your job and boom its all gone. I guess you would just bank on the fact that increase in demand for commodites = more jobs. But if those jobs are created in China or wherever the whole thing goes tits up

such is life.

Equally depressing (and possibly connected) is the fact that the cost of firelighters in our local Co-op has increased by a staggering 105% since just before Christmas. I think it's an omen.

Gigabyte
08-01-2009, 15:10 PM
oooh the co-op are predicting tough times! still at least (once youve bought the extortionate firelighters) we can burn our old christmas trees to keep warm.

jeffrey
08-01-2009, 15:15 PM
Equally depressing (and possibly connected) is the fact that the cost of firelighters in our local Co-op has increased by a staggering 105% since just before Christmas. I think it's an omen.
It's just one more way to rein-in your career as a budding arsonist.

lorenzo
08-01-2009, 15:20 PM
AK's proposal is nothing to do with Keynesianism per se. In theory, borrowing to invest is fine and features in any number of schools of economic thought. Borrowing to invest is positive with the premise that

a/ The investment is productive
b/ The debt is serviceable

Otherwise you end up with (or continuing) mal-investment. This is the tremendous negative impacting the world economy, the LUDICROUS level of mal-investment.

It is very difficult, because of the situation we are in, to find investments that fulfill the above. Housing is not a productive investment and neither is consumer spending... not directly anyway and almost certainly not 100% productive for the UK economy as it stands (more productive for emerging economies than UKs).

Keynesianism (though not my favoured economic model) is fine providing the model is implemented all the time... in boom times and bust. As it stands we've had laissez-fair deficit inducing electoral bribery and pork barreling economics with an invocation of Keynes when it FUBARs.

100% Keynes would have seen the coffers in a very large surplus and in a great position to weather a very much shorter and shallower recession (because the brakes would have been applied to the boom). This is not the case, so this perverted Keynesianism is precisely the wrong thing for the future health of the economy right now.

Gigabyte
08-01-2009, 15:29 PM
what is your favoured economic model then Lorenzo and where should I stash my cash before brown et all get a hold of it? my matress is too comfy to put cash in it?

lorenzo
08-01-2009, 15:33 PM
what is your favoured economic model then Lorenzo and where should I stash my cash before brown et all get a hold of it? my matress is too comfy to put cash in it?

Somewhere in between the Chicago and Austrian Schools.

lorenzo
08-01-2009, 15:37 PM
Far be it for me to offer financial advice, but my spare dosh is in short gamma equity option strategies and corporate bond funds... but that could change very quickly as things develop.

Liquidity and flexibility is key.

mind the gap
08-01-2009, 15:55 PM
Far be it for me to offer financial advice, but my spare dosh is in short gamma equity option strategies and corporate bond funds... but that could change very quickly as things develop.

Liquidity and flexibility is key.

Most of mine is going to be in the local Co-op at this rate

mind the gap
08-01-2009, 15:56 PM
It's just one more way to rein-in your career as a budding arsonist.

I resent the incineration in that remark!

jeffrey
08-01-2009, 16:03 PM
So you aren't the Crazy World of Arthur Brown? Not even Gordon Brown?

mind the gap
08-01-2009, 16:23 PM
So you aren't the Crazy World of Arthur Brown? Not even Gordon Brown?

Well, it's true, I am often greeted as the Goddess of Hellfire (at the checkout in the Co-op, for instance). But I'll probably end up having more in common with Goody Blake at this rate.

And definitely not Gordon Brown. Hash Browns, maybe. With poached eggs and grilled tomatoes.

It must be tea-time.

jeffrey
08-01-2009, 16:31 PM
Goody Blake? The only Goodies that I recall are Tim Brooke-Taylor, Graham Garden, and Bill Oddie.
Other famous Blakes:

Sexton Blake (fictional detective)
Blake Edwards (was married to Julie Andrews)
Blake's Seven (yay!)
George Blake (British-but-communist spy)
Blake Aldridge (Olympics diver, partnering Tom Daley)
Blake Ward ('friend' of Amy 'Whorehouse')
William Blake (18/19th century poet/artist)

mind the gap
08-01-2009, 16:59 PM
Worrever 'appened to Culture? Here it is. It's by Wordsworth.
I know you like people to be concise and Old William was rarely that, but I recommend it to you anyway.

GOODY BLAKE AND HARRY GILL
A TRUE STORY
OH! what's the matter? what's the matter?
What is't that ails young Harry Gill?
That evermore his teeth they chatter,
Chatter, chatter, chatter still!
Of waistcoats Harry has no lack,
Good duffle grey, and flannel fine;
He has a blanket on his back,
And coats enough to smother nine.

In March, December, and in July,
'Tis all the same with Harry Gill; 10
The neighbours tell, and tell you truly,
His teeth they chatter, chatter still.
At night, at morning, and at noon,
'Tis all the same with Harry Gill;
Beneath the sun, beneath the moon,
His teeth they chatter, chatter still!

Young Harry was a lusty drover,
And who so stout of limb as he?
His cheeks were red as ruddy clover;
His voice was like the voice of three. 20
Old Goody Blake was old and poor;
Ill fed she was, and thinly clad;
And any man who passed her door
Might see how poor a hut she had.

All day she spun in her poor dwelling:
And then her three hours' work at night,
Alas! 'twas hardly worth the telling,
It would not pay for candle-light.
Remote from sheltered village-green,
On a hill's northern side she dwelt, 30
Where from sea-blasts the hawthorns lean,
And hoary dews are slow to melt.

By the same fire to boil their pottage,
Two poor old Dames, as I have known,
Will often live in one small cottage;
But she, poor Woman! housed alone.
'Twas well enough when summer came,
The long, warm, lightsome summer-day,
Then at her door the 'canty' Dame
Would sit, as any linnet, gay. 40

But when the ice our streams did fetter,
Oh then how her old bones would shake!
You would have said, if you had met her,
'Twas a hard time for Goody Blake.
Her evenings then were dull and dead:
Sad case it was, as you may think,
For very cold to go to bed;
And then for cold not sleep a wink.

O joy for her! whene'er in winter
The winds at night had made a rout; 50
And scattered many a lusty splinter
And many a rotten bough about.
Yet never had she, well or sick,
As every man who knew her says,
A pile beforehand, turf or stick,
Enough to warm her for three days.

Now, when the frost was past enduring,
And made her poor old bones to ache,
Could any thing be more alluring
Than an old hedge to Goody Blake? 60
And, now and then, it must be said,
When her old bones were cold and chill,
She left her fire, or left her bed,
To seek the hedge of Harry Gill. Now Harry he had long suspected
This trespass of old Goody Blake;
And vowed that she should be detected--
That he on her would vengeance take.
And oft from his warm fire he'd go,
And to the fields his road would take; 70
And there, at night, in frost and snow,
He watched to seize old Goody Blake.

And once, behind a rick of barley,
Thus looking out did Harry stand:
The moon was full and shining clearly,
And crisp with frost the stubble land.
--He hears a noise--he's all awake--
Again?--on tip-toe down the hill
He softly creeps--'tis Goody Blake;
She's at the hedge of Harry Gill! 80

Right glad was he when he beheld her:
Stick after stick did Goody pull:
He stood behind a bush of elder,
Till she had filled her apron full.
When with her load she turned about,
The by-way back again to take;
He started forward, with a shout,
And sprang upon poor Goody Blake.

And fiercely by the arm he took her,
And by the arm he held her fast, 90
And fiercely by the arm he shook her,
And cried, "I've caught you then at last!"--
Then Goody, who had nothing said,
Her bundle from her lap let fall;
And, kneeling on the sticks, she prayed
To God that is the judge of all.

She prayed, her withered hand uprearing,
While Harry held her by the arm--
"God! who art never out of hearing,
O may he never more be warm!" 100
The cold, cold moon above her head,
Thus on her knees did Goody pray;
Young Harry heard what she had said:
And icy cold he turned away.

He went complaining all the morrow
That he was cold and very chill:
His face was gloom, his heart was sorrow,
Alas! that day for Harry Gill!
That day he wore a riding-coat,
But not a whit the warmer he: 110
Another was on Thursday brought,
And ere the Sabbath he had three.

'Twas all in vain, a useless matter,
And blankets were about him pinned;
Yet still his jaws and teeth they clatter;
Like a loose casement in the wind.
And Harry's flesh it fell away;
And all who see him say, 'tis plain,
That, live as long as live he may,
He never will be warm again. 120

No word to any man he utters,
A-bed or up, to young or old;
But ever to himself he mutters,
"Poor Harry Gill is very cold."
A-bed or up, by night or day;
His teeth they chatter, chatter still.
Now think, ye farmers all, I pray,
Of Goody Blake and Harry Gill!
1798.

And the moral of the story is...?

lorenzo
08-01-2009, 17:17 PM
And definitely not Gordon Brown. Hash Browns, maybe. With poached eggs and grilled tomatoes.

It must be tea-time.
Oh good... poetry.

Gordo's more honest namesake:

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

The Sausage Candidate
A Tale of the Elections

by A. B. "Banjo" Paterson

Our fathers, brave men were and strong,
And whisky was their daily liquor;
They used to move the world along
In better style than now -- and quicker.
Elections then were sport, you bet!
A trifle rough, there's no denying
When two opposing factions met
The skin and hair were always flying.

When "cabbage-trees" could still be worn
Without the question, "Who's your hatter?"
There dawned a bright election morn
Upon the town of Parramatta.
A man called Jones was all the go --
The people's friend, the poor's protector;
A long, gaunt, six-foot slab of woe,
He sought to charm the green elector.

How Jones had one time been trustee
For his small niece, and he -- the villain! --
Betrayed his trust most shamefully,
And robbed the child of every shillin'.
He used to keep accounts, they say,
To save himself in case of trouble;
Whatever cash he paid away
He always used to charge it double.

He'd buy the child a cotton gown
Too coarse and rough to dress a cat in,
And then he'd go and put it down
And charge the price of silk or satin!
He gave her once a little treat,
An outing down the harbour sunny,
And Lord! the bill for bread and meat,
You'd think they all had eaten money!

But Jones exposed the course he took
By carelessness -- such men are ninnies.
He went and entered in his book,
"Two pounds of sausages -- two guineas."
Now this leaked out, and folk got riled,
And said that Jones, "he didn't oughter".
But what cared Jones? he only smiled --
Abuse ran off his back like water.

And so he faced the world content:
His little niece -- he never paid her:
And then he stood for Parliament,
Of course he was a rank free trader.
His wealth was great, success appeared
To smile propitious on his banner,
But Providence it interfered
In this most unexpected manner.

A person -- call him Brown for short --
Who knew the story of this stealer,
Went calmly down the town and bought
Two pounds of sausage from a dealer,
And then he got a long bamboo
And tightly tied the sausage to it;
Says he, "This is the thing to do,
And I am just the man to do it.

"When Jones comes out to make his speech
I won't a clapper be, or hisser,
But with this long bamboo I'll reach
And poke the sausage in his 'kisser'.
I'll bring the wretch to scorn and shame,
Unless those darned police are nigh:
As sure as Brown's my glorious name,
I'll knock that candidate sky-high."

The speech comes on -- beneath the stand
The people push and surge and eddy
But Brown waits calmly close at hand
With all his apparatus ready;
And while the speaker loudly cries,
"Of ages all, this is the boss age!"
Brown hits him square between the eyes,
Exclaiming, "What's the price of sausage?"

He aimed the victuals in his face,
As though he thought poor Jones a glutton.
And Jones was covered with disgrace --
Disgrace and shame, and beef and mutton.
His cause was lost -- a hopeless wreck
He crept off from the hooting throng;
Protection proudly ruled the deck,
Here ends the sausage and the song.

The Bulletin, 9 February 1889
Published during the 1889 election campaign for the New South Wales General Parliament.

mind the gap
08-01-2009, 18:16 PM
I thought you'd appreciate the topic shift, Lorenzo!

Great election poem.


Daft things 6 years olds say: May 1st 1997, at breakfast table : "Will someone just explain what this General Erection thing is....?"

jta
08-01-2009, 18:35 PM
Also daft things 21 year olds say................

1997 'I'm really looking forward to this labour victory'.

2009 (now 32 year old Dad of two) 'You were right gaffer, they've been a disaster'

mind the gap
08-01-2009, 18:52 PM
Also daft things 21 year olds say................

1997 'I'm really looking forward to this labour victory'.

2009 (now 32 year old Dad of two) 'You were right gaffer, they've been a disaster'

iBuenas tardes, gran cerebro!

If only more people would take your advice, eh,:D jta?

jta
08-01-2009, 19:00 PM
Aaah! The stories I could tell!

¿How come you have a Spanish keyboard missis?

mind the gap
08-01-2009, 19:08 PM
Yes, but the sheer exhilaration of watching Micahel Portillo lose his seat so spectacularly and embarrassingly has made all the pain and woe since May 1 1997 worth it.

mind the gap
08-01-2009, 19:12 PM
Aaah! The stories I could tell!

¿How come you have a Spanish keyboard missis?

iSoy una mujer de muchas partes!

(Actually, if you look very, very closely, you will discover that it's a DIY job)

jta
08-01-2009, 19:44 PM
Talking about people taking my advice...............What's happened to Agent 46? I hope he's not taken umbrage

mind the gap
08-01-2009, 20:34 PM
Talking about people taking my advice...............What's happened to Agent 46? I hope he's not taken umbrage

He's probably enjoying a break away from the intellectual cut and thrust of arguing with you:rolleyes:

Rodent1
08-01-2009, 22:58 PM
Talking about people taking my advice...............What's happened to Agent 46? I hope he's not taken umbrage

Nope i sold him to the Taliban , on ebay, for what will remain an undisclosed sum.

Pic as per ebay listing :

http://robertd.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/head_up_ass.jpg

The Rodent

Sorrel
09-01-2009, 08:26 AM
Nope i sold him to the Taliban , on ebay, for what will remain an undisclosed sum.

Pic as per ebay listing :

http://robertd.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/head_up_ass.jpg

The Rodent

Haha well done rodent, brought a smile to my face this morning.

mind the gap
09-01-2009, 08:29 AM
Is it just my computer, or does the link to the listing not work?

jta
09-01-2009, 08:32 AM
Ha, that's the best pic I've seen for years, I bet his beard tickled a bit.

Rodent1
09-01-2009, 08:32 AM
Is it just my computer, or does the link to the listing not work?


Must be your computer ......or the operator !

The Rodent

mind the gap
09-01-2009, 08:34 AM
Must be your computer ......or the operator !

The Rodent

It has a 'rubbish' filter on it...

Rodent1
09-01-2009, 08:57 AM
It has a 'rubbish' filter on it...

Well it would appear that it is not very effective on outgoing data:D


Try this:
http://www.laffyerassoff.com/funny-pictures/people/II/heads-up-2.jpg

Southampton Letting Agent
09-01-2009, 09:03 AM
well you can bet your bottom dollar that the interest rate on my savings will be put down immediately!
Just like mine but the mortgages will no doubt remain the same!!!!

mind the gap
09-01-2009, 09:34 AM
Well it would appear that it is not very effective on outgoing data


Try this:
http://www.laffyerassoff.com/funny-pictures/people/II/heads-up-2.jpg

:pTrue; it would also have blanked out 99% of what you post, n'est-ce pas.

No, that link doesn't work either. Don't worry about it!

Rodent1
09-01-2009, 09:47 AM
:pTrue; it would also have blanked out 99% of what you post, n'est-ce pas.

No, that link doesn't work either. Don't worry about it!


Okay 3rd time lucky !

www. laffyerassoff.com/funny-pictures/people/II/heads-up-2.jpg

Try typing that one in?

The Rodent

Izzycam
09-01-2009, 10:35 AM
Re Rodent, very funny.

Rodent1
09-01-2009, 20:19 PM
Okay 3rd time lucky !

www. laffyerassoff.com/funny-pictures/people/II/heads-up-2.jpg

Try typing that one in?

The Rodent



So did it work ?

The Rodent

mind the gap
09-01-2009, 20:26 PM
So did it work ?

The Rodent

Well, if that's one of your famous wet-rooms/shower rooms, I'm not impressed. The pipework is crap.

Rodent1
09-01-2009, 23:14 PM
Well, if that's one of your famous wet-rooms/shower rooms, I'm not impressed. The pipework is crap.


Taken in chambers, I believe.

The Rodent

mind the gap
10-01-2009, 21:14 PM
Taken in chambers, I believe.

The Rodent

Your bathroom, more like.

The digitally modifed study of unnaturalness is disturbing. Is there no end to your grossness? Don't answer that.

Rodent1
11-01-2009, 00:07 AM
Your bathroom, more like.

The digitally modifed study of unnaturalness is disturbing. Is there no end to your grossness? Don't answer that.

I prefer "openmindedness" ...and the answer is NO!;)


The Rodent

DanAronG
13-01-2009, 10:30 AM
On Thursday last week the Bank of England chose to cut the base rate by a further half a percent to an all time low of 1.5%.

All those on tracker rates without collars will once again benefit from the cuts. If your lender passes on the full half percent cut, a mortgage of £150,000 would see monthly payments fall by over £60.

However it is unlikely to have too much of an effect on new figures and as such is unlikely to provide much stimulus for new homeowners in the struggling housing market.

Savers will not be so happy to hear of the rate reduction as this cut is also likely to be passed on to them via reduced returns on their savings.

This leads one to ponder the effectiveness of such a decision. It isn't likely to help the housing market, new mortgage rates aren't likely to improve, savers are suffering and the regular rate cuts adversely affect the Pound and reduce confidence in the economy in general. Aside from the increase in disposable income for those already on tracker rates, it is questionable as to how this helps the economy at all.

jeffrey
13-01-2009, 10:41 AM
Moreover, Banks/B.Socs. may fix rates unrelated to the official rate set by BoE. For example, if an applied rate used to be BoE + 2, it could now be BoE + 2.5 (so no change, in effect) if the Terms and Conditions do not otherwise restrict it.

lorenzo
13-01-2009, 12:48 PM
The other issue is savers looking for more productive avenues for their cash.

The theory is that it will cause savers to go out and spend and/or invest rather than save.

The reality is that they will simply find other ways of saving.

The ultimate result is that banks will be starved of cash, further undermining their balance sheets and further undermining availability of credit for mortgages and produvtive enterprise.

Fractional reserve banking 101 + behavioural economics.

Bad, Bad move.

jeffrey
13-01-2009, 16:08 PM
It's all mind boggling what the government is up to.It's merely promoting The Robert Peston Publicity Party.

mind the gap
13-01-2009, 20:13 PM
The question is, what is worthwhile these days?

Nothing to do with money, it would appear.

Perhaps we'll all end up bartering for goods and services.

What goods or services do you think you could command for an hour of your time?!

jeffrey
14-01-2009, 09:25 AM
No, you should always save money- who knows, one day it might become valuable.

mind the gap
14-01-2009, 10:08 AM
It's merely promoting The Robert Peston Publicity Party.


So I'm not the only one who finds him a self-important berk?

Izzycam
15-01-2009, 11:41 AM
Re Jeffrey BoE, I agree...

Izzycam
15-01-2009, 11:54 AM
Re the BoE base rate,
From a landlords point of view, unbelieveably we are worse off this week than before, as the banks are running scared.
We now have arrangement fees of 2.5% or more as the norm.
Less choice in the products.
Less choice in the banks or building societies.
Higher repayment fees.
Higher rates when we come off deals.
Ceilings on the lowest base rate.
Don't get me wrong I'm not moaning about the rate drops just the fact that the bank are not pasing it on , in fact they are loading excesses on like there's no tommorow.
PS please excuse my dreadful spelling ect, I have lost my spellchecker.

jeffrey
15-01-2009, 12:01 PM
'S okay, honey, I'm here.

pasing
tommorow
ect

mind the gap
15-01-2009, 14:47 PM
'S okay, honey, I'm here.

pasing
tommorow
ect

Oooh, he's a lifesaver, isn't he?

Can you do French accents yet, J?

jeffrey
15-01-2009, 15:01 PM
Oooh, he's a lifesaver, isn't he?

Can you do French accents yet, J?
Zut alors, mais naturellement ma chou.

mind the gap
15-01-2009, 15:05 PM
Zut alors, mais naturellement ma chou.

Oh, formidable, mon petit navet. Alors, comment fait-on pour les faire apparaitre chez LLZ?

Et attention - chou, n.m.

mind the gap
15-01-2009, 22:17 PM
....:confused:Et alors?

jeffrey
15-01-2009, 22:44 PM
Oh, formidable, mon petit navet. Alors, comment fait-on pour les faire apparaitre chez LLZ?
Faire apparaitre le rouge? Il n'y en a plus.

mind the gap
15-01-2009, 22:57 PM
Faire apparaitre le rouge? Il n'y en a plus.

Quel ennui. Eau de Javel, alors?:)

lorenzo
16-01-2009, 08:32 AM
我认为我漫步入错误论坛那里一分钟 什么所有这个手段?

mind the gap
16-01-2009, 08:39 AM
我认为我漫步入错误论坛那里一分钟 什么所有这个手段?

大(dà)水冲了龙王庙

lorenzo
16-01-2009, 08:53 AM
Bugger! There are no secrets on the Internet. :p

jeffrey
16-01-2009, 09:06 AM
Quel ennui. Eau de Javel, alors?:)
Eau de neisser line?

jeffrey
16-01-2009, 09:07 AM
Bugger! There are no secrets on the Internet. :p
Yes, there are, but we haven't told you what they are. If we did, they wouldn't be secrets.

lorenzo
16-01-2009, 09:24 AM
Yes, there are, but we haven't told you what they are. If we did, they wouldn't be secrets.

Are these open secrets, or official secrets that get left on trains?

jeffrey
16-01-2009, 09:43 AM
Are these open secrets, or official secrets that get left on trains?
Neither; they're known unknowns (or is that unknown knowns? I don't know).

lorenzo
16-01-2009, 10:07 AM
Neither; they're known unknowns (or is that unknown knowns? I don't know).

Surely they must be unknown unknowns then?

jeffrey
16-01-2009, 10:11 AM
Surely they must be unknown unknowns then?
How can you be sure of that, though?

lorenzo
16-01-2009, 10:35 AM
How can you be sure of that, though?

I don't know, I've emailed Donald for clarification.

jeffrey
16-01-2009, 10:59 AM
I don't know, I've emailed Donald for clarification.
Yes, Mr Rumsfeld (and the UDA/IRA) popularised renewed usage of 'clarification'- just as this year's top word seems to be 'proportionate'!

mind the gap
16-01-2009, 11:59 AM
Yes, Mr Rumsfeld (and the UDA/IRA) popularised renewed usage of 'clarification'- just as this year's top word seems to be 'proportionate'!

Are there preferable synonyms for these two?

jeffrey
16-01-2009, 12:09 PM
Both are trendy 'buzzwords'. Neither needs a euphemistic synonym, really.

lorenzo
16-01-2009, 12:10 PM
Yes, Mr Rumsfeld (and the UDA/IRA) popularised renewed usage of 'clarification'- just as this year's top word seems to be 'proportionate'!

Proportionately disproportionate, disproportionately proportionate, or disproportionately disproportionate?

mind the gap
16-01-2009, 12:12 PM
Both are trendy 'buzzwords'. Neither needs a euphemistic synonym, really.

Oh - I see. (I thought you were objecting to the lexis per se).

mind the gap
16-01-2009, 12:13 PM
Proportionately disproportionate, disproportionately proportionate, or disproportionately disproportionate?

Just about right, I'd say. Mummy Bear stuff.

Ruth Less
23-01-2009, 02:57 AM
Thing is if some lucky bugger has a tracker say 1% below base rate then the bank is going to have to charge someone else more where ever they can to make up the losses. So only a few people on existing trackers benefit. Some are on lifetime trackers of base rate - 1.1% and no collar. Luckily I fixed most of my savings in November for circa. 6.5% so now I've got to worry about if those banks go bust and if not what I do next November assuming I'm given my money back as expected. I'm pretty worried. No point in having rented and saved waiting for house prices to drop if my savings disappear before I can buy.

Izzycam
23-01-2009, 12:12 PM
It's an odd situation isn't it!
I suggest you take your savings out, buy a "round the world ticket " go and find yourself...then come back in about 10 years and by then the recession/depression should be over.
Only joking!

mind the gap
23-01-2009, 12:24 PM
It's an odd situation isn't it!
I suggest you take your savings out, buy a "round the world ticket " go and find yourself...then come back in about 10 years and by then the recession/depression should be over.
Only joking!

In which venture Sorrel has lunged forth his ensign (or something). He's going travelling, isn't he? Let's all move things around so he's confused when he comes back to the UK. I'll move Newcastle.

Izzycam
23-01-2009, 14:54 PM
I'm so envious of Sorrel going on his travels, I could spit with jealousy!
Does it show?

mind the gap
23-01-2009, 16:05 PM
I'm so envious of Sorrel going on his travels, I could spit with jealousy!
Does it show?

hHrd to tell, Izzycam. Your jealous spit is as yet only potential, and it's difficult to gauge intensity of envy from saliva anyway!

But you do sound a bit miffed, yes!

Ruth Less
29-01-2009, 03:26 AM
It's an odd situation isn't it!
I suggest you take your savings out, buy a "round the world ticket " go and find yourself...then come back in about 10 years and by then the recession/depression should be over.
Only joking!
Bummer, I wish I'd put the cash abroad to do that before the value of the pound went off a cliff! (Not joking :mad:).

Ruth Less
02-02-2009, 02:04 AM
Got that wrong it's base rate minus 1.01 per cent at C&G I was thinking of:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/property_and_mortgages/article5622453.ece

Izzycam
05-02-2009, 10:32 AM
Looks like we are on our way to the lowest BOE rate since it started in 1694.
Good grief 1%....we must be in real dire straits.

jeffrey
05-02-2009, 10:39 AM
Looks like we are on our way to the lowest BOE rate since it started in 1694.
Good grief 1%....we must be in real dire straits.
Money for nothing
And your chicks for free.

islandgirl
05-02-2009, 10:42 AM
there was something on the radio a few days ago about some mortgage holders actually dipping into negative rates (x% below BOE rate) and the bank owing them money on fixed rate deals (tee hee)
But you can't get chicks held in proper welfare conditions for free, young man

Izzycam
05-02-2009, 13:23 PM
Re Wickerman, another £500 disposable income then.....
Modesty is a virtue:D

kaled00pro
06-02-2009, 13:59 PM
So the Bank of England has again cut its rates to a record 1%!!!

Will this help stimulate the economy again?

Haifax has reported a 2% rise in property prices in January, how accurate is this?

Is this the beginning of the end?

I use this UK House Prices (http://www.zoopla.co.uk) website to kep an eye on prices http://www.zoopla.co.uk

Perplexed
06-02-2009, 17:19 PM
It is quite clear that despite interest rates being ridiculously low, there is no sign of lending having rerturned to anything like normality - far from it!

The problem is, of course, caused by the very same people who precipitated this crisis in the first place. These are high-salaried people who, despite all the education that has been lavished on them, are totally incapable of independent thinkging or sane judgment. They are a highly educated... herd and as far as I can see, they have always followed the pack.

So in the olden days they would outdo each other at lending large sums of money to precisely the sort of people they should not have lent to. And because these people were perceived to be a 'higher risk' they were, of course, charged higher rates than other people were. Which of course only increased their likelihood of default.

Nowadays these highly paid sheep have collectively gone to the other extreme and turned totally paranoid. Once again demonstrating their lack of descernment, they still paint everybody with the same broad brush - only now they don't want to lend to anybody! AND they are hording huge sums of taxpayer money which wasa only given to them so they could pump it into the system. Makes my blood boil.

Now, there have been rumours of the Government setting up a 'bad bank' to further let these incompetent sheep off the hook on the back of taxpayer money, but IMO this is neither reasonable nor fair. It will just allow the banks to entrench even more in their intransigent attitude.

So, I have a better idea.

Let the government set up a GOOD bank instead, offering loans to landlords and businesses who have a clean record and are just caught up in this mess through no fault of their own. That will put the wind up the sheep, who will see good business draining away from them. And the government (taxpayer) would be making a profit instead of taking on endless losses.

Now, THAT would be both effective AND fair. It would also present the sheep cartel with some healthy competition. About time too, wouldn't you say?

Edinburgh29
07-02-2009, 07:34 AM
It is quite clear that despite interest rates being ridiculously low, there is no sign of lending having rerturned to anything like normality - far from it!

The problem is, of course, caused by the very same people who precipitated this crisis in the first place. These are high-salaried people who, despite all the education that has been lavished on them, are totally incapable of independent thinkging or sane judgment. They are a highly educated... herd and as far as I can see, they have always followed the pack.

So in the olden days they would outdo each other at lending large sums of money to precisely the sort of people they should not have lent to. And because these people were perceived to be a 'higher risk' they were, of course, charged higher rates than other people were. Which of course only increased their likelihood of default.

Nowadays these highly paid sheep have collectively gone to the other extreme and turned totally paranoid. Once again demonstrating their lack of descernment, they still paint everybody with the same broad brush - only now they don't want to lend to anybody! AND they are hording huge sums of taxpayer money which wasa only given to them so they could pump it into the system. Makes my blood boil.

Now, there have been rumours of the Government setting up a 'bad bank' to further let these incompetent sheep off the hook on the back of taxpayer money, but IMO this is neither reasonable nor fair. It will just allow the banks to entrench even more in their intransigent attitude.

So, I have a better idea.

Let the government set up a GOOD bank instead, offering loans to landlords and businesses who have a clean record and are just caught up in this mess through no fault of their own. That will put the wind up the sheep, who will see good business draining away from them. And the government (taxpayer) would be making a profit instead of taking on endless losses.

Now, THAT would be both effective AND fair. It would also present the sheep cartel with some healthy competition. About time too, wouldn't you say?

Your idea is good, there should be no issues in lending to proffesional landlords with a good credit rating who can prove they are running a portfolio as it should be done.
However when the herd were throwing 90 percent btl loans out with no rental calculation, to anyone, these people who tried to get in on the act, bought rubbish and these properties are now being repossesed hand over foot.
As an example i looked at a property yesterday which was bought 3 years ago for 330k off plan, i was told there was a guaranteed 1st years rent covered by the builder, for 2k per month, someone had got a btl mortgage on this at 85%.

It was impossible to get more than 900 per month in the real world, so ultimatly it was repossesed and sold for 150k.

the lender looses a fortune, so they say all buy to lets are toxic, because of people who bought rubbish.

So despite having a good portfolio properly managed that returns a good yeald, you apply for a btl mortgage at as low as 70% ltv, you are declined, no reason given, just declined.

I actually managed to speak to one of the untouchable ( UNDERWRITERS ) You know who i mean these people who make the decisions.

He told me he had 15 cases on his desk that day, including mine, all declined, the lowest ltv was at 38% declined the lot.

BOTTOM LINE IS. the are puting the products out as lip service, and only very very few are geting finance.

If they were to actually lend again, even at 80% for btl, the market would start to move again and stop prices going down, the more they freeze lending the worse the situation gets, causing more house price deflation and more repossesions, and more losses for them, the lenders are actually putting the noose round there own necks and tigtening the not by not lending.

And if someone had the guile to offer 95% loans to 1st time buyers, who are desperate to buy but cant afford the ludicrous deposits required on a 60% product, the market would start again, and the chain would start, causing prices to rise, and lenders to make profit again, and it would stop a lot of reposesions.

Is this idea to senseable, best to leave it to the big paid sheep who control the herd, and get big bonuses to sort this one out, NOT.

mazzster
07-02-2009, 08:10 AM
Sadly I think EU state aid ruling would probably prevent it.

Also, to some extent, further reductions in interest rates don't really help the situation. They may help those who have already borrowed, but lower interest rates mean savers are less inclined to keep their money in the banks. This in turn means the banks effectively have less money to lend out.

The bank's balance sheets have been shot to pieces by the credit crunch. Like the example you gave, they lent ~£300k and now have an asset worth ~£150k & no means of recovering the money they lent. Even with repossession they have lost £150k.

Whilst house prices were rapidly rising year on year banks were happy to lend 95% LTV, as even with only interest being repaid this would often become a more palatable 80% LTV in a few years due to the capital appreciation.

The opposite is now true. Due to the falling property values, even if the banks get a 25% deposit (75% LTV) the anticipated further falls in prices means this can easily disappear, increasing their risk.

Edinburgh29
07-02-2009, 08:45 AM
Sadly I think EU state aid ruling would probably prevent it.

Also, to some extent, further reductions in interest rates don't really help the situation. They may help those who have already borrowed, but lower interest rates mean savers are less inclined to keep their money in the banks. This in turn means the banks effectively have less money to lend out.

The bank's balance sheets have been shot to pieces by the credit crunch. Like the example you gave, they lent ~£300k and now have an asset worth ~£150k & no means of recovering the money they lent. Even with repossession they have lost £150k.

Whilst house prices were rapidly rising year on year banks were happy to lend 95% LTV, as even with only interest being repaid this would often become a more palatable 80% LTV in a few years due to the capital appreciation.

The opposite is now true. Due to the falling property values, even if the banks get a 25% deposit (75% LTV) the anticipated further falls in prices means this can easily disappear, increasing their risk.

So the answer to the problem is to turn house price deflation into house price apreciation again.

By not lending, no one can buy, so the prices continue to go down, the market needs buyers to kick start it again, and stabalise it, the more buyers the more prices start to go up.

I fully understand what you are saying, however if a lender had the bottle to at least try this and offer a 95% product for 1st time buyers, and an 80% btl, i would bet there system would crash with the amount of aplicants, which in turn would cause houses to start selling again.

The sheep at the top need to understand there are thousands of turnips in the field and only a few sheep to eat them, by doing this plan i mention it will introduce a few hundred sheep into the field.

This would cause the herd mentality to kick in, other lenders see one of there rivals scooping up all the business.

The government backed RBS And HBOS/Lloyds should start the ball rolling.:cool:

Perplexed
07-02-2009, 08:55 AM
Absurd though it seems, asking prices in my area have already started rising again, while the availabitily of finance keeps getting worse. :mad:

This, of course, is aided by estate agents' delusionary tendencies and downright lies. Only last month I had a conversation with the branch manager of a well known national chain of estate agents, who claimed to have just had his 'record month.' My reply? "Don't insult my intelligence!"

Back to the mortgage situation, I looked at a broker's site yesterday and all their BLT mortgages started at 60% LTV. Simply ludicrous. How can they expect people to have 40% of the purchase price?

The sad truth is that the whole country is being held to ransom by the sheep. About time the government stepped in and pumped money in the RIGHT direction, so that the sheep will lose their jobs.

That would be a nice change, woudln't it? These are peole who never stuck their neck out on anything. So let's show them how their 'safe' jobs are nothing of the sort. The whole country is suffering because of them, so why should they, of all people, be immune?

I repeat, the Government should set up a GOOD bank to get the economy working again.

Edinburgh29
07-02-2009, 12:11 PM
Absurd though it seems, asking prices in my area have already started rising again, while the availabitily of finance keeps getting worse. :mad:

This, of course, is aided by estate agents' delusionary tendencies and downright lies. Only last month I had a conversation with the branch manager of a well known national chain of estate agents, who claimed to have just had his 'record month.' My reply? "Don't insult my intelligence!"

Back to the mortgage situation, I looked at a broker's site yesterday and all their BLT mortgages started at 60% LTV. Simply ludicrous. How can they expect people to have 40% of the purchase price?

The sad truth is that the whole country is being held to ransom by the sheep. About time the government stepped in and pumped money in the RIGHT direction, so that the sheep will lose their jobs.

That would be a nice change, woudln't it? These are peole who never stuck their neck out on anything. So let's show them how their 'safe' jobs are nothing of the sort. The whole country is suffering because of them, so why should they, of all people, be immune?

I repeat, the Government should set up a GOOD bank to get the economy working again.http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_headline=roofless-business&method=full&objectid=19721707&siteid=64736-name_page.html

Anyway back to the Lenders, offering 60% BTL Products is a joke, what happens when your existing fixed rate deal runs out, you go on there SVR or PVR, WHICH MOST TRACK AT 1.75 ABOVE BASE.

I Agree there have been some crazy purchases by Amatuer investors, mostly who were guided by so called property investment companies, who have been hung out to dry, and the lenders have been left with huge losses like the one i detailed earlier.

However to take a broad view that the entire BTL Market is toxic is madness, i know several proffesional investors who manage fantastic portfolios who simply cannot get credit.

We have some estate agents up here spouting the same rubbish busiest month on record and all that rubbish,

Inprintimaging
08-02-2009, 16:18 PM
1% is as low as they can take it. It will increase the amount of money that people on trackers have to spare, but on its own it won't solve the underlying problems in the economy. Someone needs to bite the bullet and make life a bit less cushy for the bankers. Force them to start some sort of responsible lending again. That's the only way we are going to get money moving in the enconomy again. The bankers are one of the primary sources of this problem and they need to be dealt with decisively before many more otherwise sound businesses end up bankrupt and people end up unemployed.

Edinburgh29
09-02-2009, 08:26 AM
The lower the better as far as i am concerned, half my mortgages are on trackers, and with the SVR Being so low, when the fixed rate deals end, your costs will be a third of what you were paying on the fixed rate deals.:D

Edinburgh29
09-02-2009, 09:30 AM
Lloyds, Halifax, Woolwich & Nationwide have all passed it on via their SVR's.

Do you know what GMAC SVR is ?:confused:

jeffrey
09-02-2009, 09:35 AM
Do you know what GMAC SVR is?
General
Motors
Acceptance
Company
Standard
Variable
Rate.

Edinburgh29
09-02-2009, 11:27 AM
General
Motors
Acceptance
Company
Standard
Variable
Rate.

Yes but do you know what percentage rate they currently are charging for borrowers who are on there SVR. ?

jeffrey
09-02-2009, 11:43 AM
Yes but do you know what percentage rate they currently are charging for borrowers who are on there SVR. ?
No. Sorry- I thought that your post #52 was merely asking what "GMAC SVR" is (= means)!

Edinburgh29
09-02-2009, 13:15 PM
5.75% according to their website. can you post a link ? is there a difference between BTL And Main Residence Rate.

Izzycam
09-02-2009, 15:02 PM
yeh...a hell of a difference,

Rodent1
03-03-2009, 21:38 PM
Time once again (Thursday 5/3) for a decision from BoE on the Int rate
What are you people thinking ?

I think 0.5% cut to 0.5.

Thoughts ?

jeffrey
03-03-2009, 21:52 PM
Cut it by 2%? Who can control any financial levers at present?

Izzycam
04-03-2009, 03:34 AM
My guess is a 0.5% drop.
It doesn't seem to be making any difference whatever the rate is for buy to let mortgages.
The relationship between the official rate and commercial rates have completley broken down.

Gigabyte
05-03-2009, 13:45 PM
WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY does the GVT continue to F*** things up for everyone!

okay another rates cut, so instantly im getting paid bugger all on my savings, and yet credit facility interest stays the same or goes up!! what a complete waste of time way to punish those who haven't been stupid enough to enter into a complex financial agreement or taken gotten involved in credit default swaps AAAAGGGGHH

the banks are never going to lend the cash that the govt (US) have given them because the business's that need the cash are seen as a big risk because the money has been given to the banks and not the small business's!!!! its a vicious cycle.

they keep telling us they cant let the banks fail, okay so not all of them but bloody RBS they can, they employ what? around 170,000 people, give it 6 months when we have NO high street, NO manufacturing, NO industry, NO services and they will realise they should have just let RBS go bust and risen a proper small mutual bank from the ashes along the lines of Nationwide. The US should do the same thing for AIG, how much more cash can they continue to chuck into it, it will be endless and for what end?

The only way to get out of it, it to actually give us, as a big bunch of consumers some cold hard cash, we all might aswell spend it as interest is so crap theres no point in saving it. High St Vouchers or food vouchers or cash to scrap your old car and money towards a new one like in Germany SOMETHING FOR CONSUMERS AND NOT BLOODY BANKS!

jeffrey
05-03-2009, 13:47 PM
So, from a slight hint in your post, do we take it that you're not wildly enthusiastic then?

Izzycam
05-03-2009, 13:52 PM
0.5%.....god help the savers!

Izzycam
05-03-2009, 13:56 PM
And they're going to print money! I wonder if I could learn how to print money, every time I get in trouble;)

Gigabyte
05-03-2009, 14:06 PM
mildly so.

of course being english I will just complain and whine on here and send a few angry emails and then make myself some tea and watch deal or no deal.

jeffrey
05-03-2009, 14:38 PM
And they're going to print money! I wonder if I could learn how to print money, every time I get in trouble;)
No, of course they're not. They told us that it's just a bit of 'Quantative Easing'- so that's alright, then, is it?

Sorrel
05-03-2009, 15:55 PM
And they're going to print money! I wonder if I could learn how to print money, every time I get in trouble;)

Just go North of the Border you can knock out any old notes to pass off as fivers

Rodent1
05-03-2009, 16:15 PM
My guess is a 0.5% drop.
It doesn't seem to be making any difference whatever the rate is for buy to let mortgages.
The relationship between the official rate and commercial rates have completley broken down.

Careful Izzy, have you any idea just what could happen to you if the thought police pick up on this ?

Before the end of your potential upcoming lecture(!) this thought will have manifested itself into millions of pounds of counterfeit cash, which you will be imprisoned for a very long time for, and to suggest such a thing on a public forum ?
Are you mad ?
The arrest squad is no doubt already on it's way :p

Izzycam
05-03-2009, 19:31 PM
The mood I'm in today, I couldn't give a monkey's, :)