Planning permission just for new bathroom window?

[ah84]

Planning to knock through between 2 first floor front rooms in an HMO to make a studi flat. Wall to be knocked through is lathe and plaster.

Plan to make small room into kitchen and bathroom and make small window in bathroom for ventilation. This new window would be at side of house.

Planning has told me i need planning for window because more than 6ppl live in house. Need to have full plans which seems crazy for a little window.

Hence I probably wont bother with plans and hope for the best. was told by planning it is not criminal to do this and worst case someone conmplains and enforcement makes me apply for planning. My only worry is whether building regs ppl will report me to planning.

Anyone got any thooughts? Could always not bother with the window!!

[billmccallum]

Do you really need a window???

Why not just fit extractor fan (just a little hole in the wall).

[cillitbanger]

Do you really need a window???

Why not just fit extractor fan (just a little hole in the wall).
that was my thought exactly!!
Make sure you have adequate lighting in there though ;) for us ladies!!

[jeffrey]

that was my thought exactly!!
Make sure you have adequate lighting in there though ;) for us ladies!!
...for that's what you are: a laydee, yes a laydee, like all the laydees.
PS: why shouldn't men have lighting too?

[ah84]

Do you really need a window???

Why not just fit extractor fan (just a little hole in the wall).

Well obviously would fit an extractor fan anyway because there is no guarantee a tenant would open the window.

However a window is more desirable as the lighting will be better and will help prevent dampness and mould growth far more than a fan.

Obviously if I want to play it safe with council I wont bother but i dont see why it should need planning when it would not if it was single household. Could not see planning being rejected hence dont see why i need full plans for a window a foot square!!

[Planner]

Are you sure its only for the window? I think the full plans are being asked for because of the internal works you are undertaking to create a studio flat (would as far as I can tell from what youve posted) would definatley need planning permssion.

[ah84]

Been told i dont need for intenral works by planning. Its an existing licenced hmo and all i am doing is converting 2 bedsits into one by knocking through the dividing wall which is lathe and plaster and not load bearing. Hence will be less people than before in the house and should not need planning.

Planning officer i spoke to told me full plans just for the window. Was a different planning officer who told me i did not need plans(before i thought about the window).

Perhaps I would get different answer for each planning officer i speak to?

[Planner]

just because its internal works doesnt mean plannings not required, that maybe the case in certain cases. But if thats what they have told you I would remain quite!!!

I would suggest you make a formal request (if you havent already done so) of what is required, and get the response from them in writing.

If you go ahead and put the window in without planning, there is a change that building control will pick this up and resport you to enforcement anyway!.

[ah84]

what happens if i get reported to enforcement? I was told that i will just have to apply retroactively as it is not a criminal offence.

Hopefully in this case a photo rather than full plans will suffice?

Perhaps best not to do window and hope fan does the job!!

[cillitbanger]

would the said window overlook someone elses property or in a listed building?
if so, that is probably why you need permission

[cillitbanger]

...for that's what you are: a laydee, yes a laydee, like all the laydees.
PS: why shouldn't men have lighting too?


sorry jeffrey, i was forgetting you need plenty of lighting to make yourself beautiful :D

[ah84]

would the said window overlook someone elses property or in a listed building?
if so, that is probably why you need permission

Nope its at side of the house so just will face the wall of the neighbours house. Will be a very small window with obscure glass.

Planning told me that if more than 6 ppl in house need planning if not I dont. Not sure why how many people live in the house has anything to do with whether a window needs planning or not.

[Planner]

If it does go to enforcement, chances are they will be so underfunded that they will just turn a blind eye as they have bigger fish to fry.

Or they will ask you to apply for retrospective planning permission, which if you dont get, will casue you no end of problems!

If your planning on selling the property anytime soon (or having it revalued/remorgatged?) you will definatley want to get planning sorted.

[ah84]

If it does go to enforcement, chances are they will be so underfunded that they will just turn a blind eye as they have bigger fish to fry.

Or they will ask you to apply for retrospective planning permission, which if you dont get, will casue you no end of problems!

If your planning on selling the property anytime soon (or having it revalued/remorgatged?) you will definatley want to get planning sorted.

Can just brick it up and its back to how it was!

Not planning to sell. Will speak to builder and see what he thinks. I generally do things by the book, have my HMO licence etc but this seems too ridiculous so prepared to pretend not to know.

[pdk]

Hello,

I am the moderator of this part of the forum and I had meant to comment on this thread some time ago. I'm sorry but I have been a bit busy.

A few issues: First, knocking through two bedsits into a self contained studio flat could be deemed as creating a new dwelling and thus you would need planning permission for doing this. You only don't need PP for internal works if there is no change of use.

Second, the creation of a new window affects the external appearance of a building and you may well need PP for this, unless you get a letter from the Council saying that it is such a minimal change that it doesn't need consent.

Third, going into a breach of planning control is not initially a criminal offence but becomes so if an enforcement notice is issued and then takes effect. You of course have a right of appeal against an EN.

I hope that clarifies matters!!

Regards, PETER


NOTE: Peter Kyte BSC (Hons) DipTP MRTPI CGeog FRGS is an official LandlordZONE Topic Expert… For more information on Peter D Kyte Associates and Enabling Projects please see the websites at http://www.enablinguk.com and http://www.development-seekers.com. Any advice given by Peter Kyte in this Forum is of a general nature only and should not be taken to be a final and binding planning opinion. Based on any initial advice given you are strongly advised to seek a further professional opinion, which may involve a site visit and a detailed analysis of the issues... For information on the sort of work Peter undertakes please see TRACK RECORD (http://www.enablinguk.com/track.html), WORKING WITH INVESTORS (http://www.enablinguk.com/ur-property-investors-planning.html), and PROJECT TYPES (http://www.enablinguk.com/planning-project-permission-appeal-UK.html)...

[scampicat]

I used to work in Planning Enforcement.

As you rightly say, it is not an offence to carry out work without Planning permission.

It IS an offence not to comply with an enforcement notice.

However, there are a lot of things that will happen before you get to that stage. The most likely thing to happrn would be that you would be asked to apply for retrospective Planning Permission (which may or may not b granted).
Or you may be asked to reinstate it to its original condition.

Building Regulations may consult Planning as to whether or not it needs p/permission.

In reply to another poster, internal works do not usually require Planning Permission. They do often however require approval under the Building Regulations.

[ah84]

Thanks for your response guys.

Builder has advised not to bother with anything as works are so small. He said if I want building regs he can always get it retrospectively as he will comply with what is necesary anyway. He runs a pretty big firm so probably knows what he is talking about even if his advice is not by the book. Will think about it as council licensing will probably ask for building regs at some stage so might as well get them.

As for PDK's post about creating a new dwelling and hence your view that PP may be required, lets look at it this way. At the moment I have 2 existing bedsits with kitchenette in each. This will be converted into one bedsit with one kitchenette and a shower/WC. So it is more like the removal of a dwelling. The only thing I a doing is internally adding a shower/WC to the existing dwelling.