Two separate flats/two flats in house-planning aspects

[noopin]

I've picked up the idea on the forum that there is a distinction of legal status between two distinct flats, each with its own lease and formed from a single house, and a house containing two flats.
Can anyone enlighten me, please?

[Richard Webster]

There could be a restriction in the main lease preventing use for more than one dwelling - and as this is a section of the form about Planning - to let as two separate flats (even without creating underleases etc) you still need Planning Permission or a Certificate of Lawful use as two flats.

As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients.

[pdk]

In planning definition terms they are exactly the same...

PETER

NOTE: Peter Kyte BSC (Hons) DipTP MRTPI CGeog FRGS is an official LandlordZONE Topic Expert… For more information on Peter D Kyte Associates and Enabling Projects please see the websites at http://www.enablinguk.com and http://www.development-seekers.com. Any advice given by Peter Kyte in this Forum is of a general nature only and should not be taken to be a final and binding planning opinion. Based on any initial advice given you are strongly advised to seek a further professional opinion, which may involve a site visit and a detailed analysis of the issues... For information on the sort of work Peter undertakes please see TRACK RECORD (http://www.enablinguk.com/track.html), WORKING WITH INVESTORS (http://www.enablinguk.com/ur-property-investors-planning.html), and PROJECT TYPES (http://www.enablinguk.com/planning-project-permission-appeal-UK.html)...

[AAS]

There could be a restriction in the main lease preventing use for more than one dwelling - and as this is a section of the form about Planning - to let as two separate flats (even without creating underleases etc) you still need Planning Permission or a Certificate of Lawful use as two flats.

As a conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful but I accept no liability except to fee-paying clients.

Sorry to get into the middle of this thread but I have somehow a similar question and would highly appreciate if the experts can enlighten me.
I am in the process of buying this terraced house (6 bedrooms) which has been divided into 3 self contained flats. Each falt has:
1. Separate council tax
2. Separate electricity meter
3. Separate gas meter
Have been in use like this since at least 2000 when the current owner bought it but he is not sure as to when the house was converted into flats. I am going to check with the council if they can identify this date from the separate dates for the council tax for the 3 flats.
I am planning to buy and split the title into three leasehold titles and then sell on. However, I was told that I would need 2 things before I can split the title into 3 leaseholds:
1. Planning permission or exemption and
2. Building regulations

I was told that if the house has been in the current use for at least 10 years then I might get away with the planning permission plus the building regulations.
However, somebody else told me that I might get away with the pp but cannot get away with the building regulations no matter how long ago the house was divided into the flats.
Can somebody advise please. I would highly appreciate any expert advice in this case. Many thanks

[jeffrey]

AAS: I have replied on the Conv. Forum copy of your post, re the conveyancing aspects only.
I hope that those more expert than I will reply on the planning aspects!

[pdk]

OK, heres the planning bit:

As long as the flats are fully self contained and been in continuous and uninterrupted use its 4 not 10 years... you can get whats called a Certificate of Lawful Development for this, not PP. A CLD might help you in circumstances where PP might not normally be given e.g. flats too small or no parking..

It is up to the applicant to prove the ongoing 4 year use..

I hope that helps!!

PETER

NOTE: Peter Kyte BSC (Hons) DipTP MRTPI CGeog FRGS is an official LandlordZONE Topic Expert� For more information on Peter D Kyte Associates and Enabling Projects please see the websites at http://www.enablinguk.com and http://www.development-seekers.com. Any advice given by Peter Kyte in this Forum is of a general nature only and should not be taken to be a final and binding planning opinion. Based on any initial advice given you are strongly advised to seek a further professional opinion, which may involve a site visit and a detailed analysis of the issues... For information on the sort of work Peter undertakes please see TRACK RECORD , WORKING WITH INVESTORS , and PROJECT TYPES...

[AAS]

OK, heres the planning bit:

As long as the flats are fully self contained and been in continuous and uninterrupted use its 4 not 10 years... you can get whats called a Certificate of Lawful Development for this, not PP. A CLD might help you in circumstances where PP might not normally be given e.g. flats too small or no parking..

It is up to the applicant to prove the ongoing 4 year use..

I hope that helps!!

PETER

NOTE: Peter Kyte BSC (Hons) DipTP MRTPI CGeog FRGS is an official LandlordZONE Topic Expert� For more information on Peter D Kyte Associates and Enabling Projects please see the websites at http://www.enablinguk.com and http://www.development-seekers.com. Any advice given by Peter Kyte in this Forum is of a general nature only and should not be taken to be a final and binding planning opinion. Based on any initial advice given you are strongly advised to seek a further professional opinion, which may involve a site visit and a detailed analysis of the issues... For information on the sort of work Peter undertakes please see TRACK RECORD , WORKING WITH INVESTORS , and PROJECT TYPES...

Many thanks Jeffrey and Peter.
Is the CLD and letter of comfort from the council one and the same thing?
Any idea if I can get away with the building regulations as well or would it need to be complied with and would need an inspection?
Highly appreciate it.
Thanks

[pdk]

A CLD is not a letter of comfort!! It is a legal document that confirms the lawful use...

I cannot advise you to go in breach of building regs!!

reagrds,

PETER



NOTE: Peter Kyte BSC (Hons) DipTP MRTPI CGeog FRGS is an official LandlordZONE Topic Expert� For more information on Peter D Kyte Associates and Enabling Projects please see the websites at http://www.enablinguk.com and http://www.development-seekers.com. Any advice given by Peter Kyte in this Forum is of a general nature only and should not be taken to be a final and binding planning opinion. Based on any initial advice given you are strongly advised to seek a further professional opinion, which may involve a site visit and a detailed analysis of the issues... For information on the sort of work Peter undertakes please see TRACK RECORD , WORKING WITH INVESTORS , and PROJECT TYPES...

[AAS]

A CLD is not a letter of comfort!! It is a legal document that confirms the lawful use...

I cannot advise you to go in breach of building regs!!

reagrds,

PETER



NOTE: Peter Kyte BSC (Hons) DipTP MRTPI CGeog FRGS is an official LandlordZONE Topic Expert� For more information on Peter D Kyte Associates and Enabling Projects please see the websites at http://www.enablinguk.com and http://www.development-seekers.com. Any advice given by Peter Kyte in this Forum is of a general nature only and should not be taken to be a final and binding planning opinion. Based on any initial advice given you are strongly advised to seek a further professional opinion, which may involve a site visit and a detailed analysis of the issues... For information on the sort of work Peter undertakes please see TRACK RECORD , WORKING WITH INVESTORS , and PROJECT TYPES...

Thanks Peter,
Well, perhaps I didnt ask my question correctly. The question was that would CLD covers both PP and Building regulations if the house had been in use for over 4 years or would the CLD only covers the PP part?
Many thanks for your advice

[arusha]

AAS,

Don't forget to look in the white boxes and check there really are seperate gas and electric meters and turn the heating on to make sure the radiators get hot. You don't want to be getting tricked like me! (See my post in conveyancing section).

Ha ha. You certainly learn something new everyday being a landlady.