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mofz1
19-07-2007, 10:51 AM
The eviction process should be changed as the landlords can not enter the property once the possession order has been made unless they are 101% certain that the tenant has left.. they need to instruct bailiffs to enter the property if they are unsure as to whether the tenant has vacated the property or not ... I think the law needs to be changed as it seems it is a waste of time to have to wait for the bailiffs once the possession order has been made as this can take 6-8weeks to be actioned

Colincbayley
19-07-2007, 11:26 AM
The eviction process should be changed as the landlords can not enter the property once the possession order has been made unless they are 101% certain that the tenant has left.. they need to instruct bailiffs to enter the property if they are unsure as to whether the tenant has vacated the property or not ... I think the law needs to be changed as it seems it is a waste of time to have to wait for the bailiffs once the possession order has been made as this can take 6-8weeks to be actioned

What would you suggest?

If you do not use a baliff how else can you chuck someone out? Do it yourself?

tahmur
19-07-2007, 12:39 PM
This all boils down to the tenants having too much power.

Imp
19-07-2007, 13:45 PM
The tenancy laws in this country give the landlord too much power. Under the AST the tenant has no long term security of tenure. Imagine you are a pregant woman, you can be thrown out of your own home with only 2 months notice. The only thing you can hope for is a few extra months grace as the correct proceedings take place. In a civilised country, having a tenancy law like this is barbaric. The tenant should have security of tenure as long as they pay the rent, and the landlord's obligations to maintain the property should be passed on to the tenant. This will balance things up some what. The AST contract is a step back into the dark ages.

jeffrey
19-07-2007, 14:01 PM
Imp: how much do you actually know about the Rent Act 1977 and prior legislation, please?

Colincbayley
19-07-2007, 14:26 PM
Tahmur says tenants have all the power
Imp says it is the landlords

I say it is whoever knows the system best.
Some tenants know all their rights and the law and then again some landlords find it hard to write their own names !!!

Imp
19-07-2007, 14:31 PM
Imp: how much do you actually know about the Rent Act 1977 and prior legislation, please?

Jeffrey, I know very little about the Rent Act 1977, except it did not encourage people to let out their houses.

My slightly off the point point was that the balance of the law is not all in the tenant's favour. Letting law is a very tricky subject, too restrictive on the tenant and it restricts the ability for people to carry on a normal life, have children, settle down. Too restrictive on the landlord and it restricts the number of properties on the market.

nick4692
19-07-2007, 16:52 PM
The tenancy laws in this country give the landlord too much power. Under the AST the tenant has no long term security of tenure. Imagine you are a pregant woman, you can be thrown out of your own home with only 2 months notice. The only thing you can hope for is a few extra months grace as the correct proceedings take place. In a civilised country, having a tenancy law like this is barbaric. The tenant should have security of tenure as long as they pay the rent, and the landlord's obligations to maintain the property should be passed on to the tenant. This will balance things up some what. The AST contract is a step back into the dark ages.

Interesting thought. but assuming the above was actually the case what would you do as a landlord if you wanted your own property back?

kenco
19-07-2007, 18:48 PM
Imp

I intend to do just that.

As immoral as it may seem, my tenant is expecting a baby, but has been an awful payer, never on time, all the excuses under the sun etc... etc...

But I have a BIG mortgage to pay, have given her several warnings, and I simply cannot be messed about any more.

From my point of view, as a landlord I provide a service, and I have prided myself in providing a modern home, with new kitchen (not a cheap one either), new bathroom, new carpets/lino, fully replastered and decorated etc etc etc.

And it really annoys me when a relatively new tennant with no new extenuating circumstances thinks they can muck you about month after month!

Rant over!

Imp
19-07-2007, 19:12 PM
Kenco,

I understand you are acting as a responsible landlord within the current legislation framework. As my previous post stated, I believe tenants should pay the rent, on time, as required in the contract. A tenant who does not pay the rent should be evicted.

But

I also believe there is very little incentive for a tenant to abide by the contract. Let's say I am a less scrupulous tenant. I pay my deposit and first months rent. If I know the rules I could probably stay in the house for 4-6 months without paying anything further. When I am evicted I then find somewhere else. All the credit checks and reference checks in the world could be circumvented if you know how.

After 6 months I could be evicted on a whim by the landlord anyway, so may as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb.

Now lets say I have somewhere I can move into and call my home, without having to worry about being evicted every six months. I will become more attached to it and therefore will not want to lose it. My rent will be paid on time so that I don't lose it. If I am having a baby I have the opportunity to bring my child up in a stable environment.

Nick 4692, the law of the land states what right you have over the property you own or rent. If the law changes to give the tenant more security, then you would have to re-assess your position as a landlord. As an example, what rights do you think a freeholder should have over the a leased property? Should the freeholder be able to enter the leaseholder's home to inspect it and ensure the freeholders "investment" is being looked after? If the leaseholder abides by the terms of the lease, should the freeholder still be able to terminate the lease? This goes to show that once the leaseholder has signed over the lease to his property, he has very few rights left, even though he still owns the property. I am proposing the same happens with a rental, but with more rights for the landlord.

Colincbayley
20-07-2007, 08:47 AM
Kenco,

I understand you are acting as a responsible landlord within the current legislation framework. As my previous post stated, I believe tenants should pay the rent, on time, as required in the contract. A tenant who does not pay the rent should be evicted.

But

I also believe there is very little incentive for a tenant to abide by the contract. Let's say I am a less scrupulous tenant. I pay my deposit and first months rent. If I know the rules I could probably stay in the house for 4-6 months without paying anything further. When I am evicted I then find somewhere else. All the credit checks and reference checks in the world could be circumvented if you know how.

After 6 months I could be evicted on a whim by the landlord anyway, so may as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb.

Now lets say I have somewhere I can move into and call my home, without having to worry about being evicted every six months. I will become more attached to it and therefore will not want to lose it. My rent will be paid on time so that I don't lose it. If I am having a baby I have the opportunity to bring my child up in a stable environment.

Nick 4692, the law of the land states what right you have over the property you own or rent. If the law changes to give the tenant more security, then you would have to re-assess your position as a landlord. As an example, what rights do you think a freeholder should have over the a leased property? Should the freeholder be able to enter the leaseholder's home to inspect it and ensure the freeholders "investment" is being looked after? If the leaseholder abides by the terms of the lease, should the freeholder still be able to terminate the lease? This goes to show that once the leaseholder has signed over the lease to his property, he has very few rights left, even though he still owns the property. I am proposing the same happens with a rental, but with more rights for the landlord.

What a load of waffle, what planet do you suggest this takes place on!

jeffrey
20-07-2007, 08:56 AM
...and a freeholder (or the immediate reversioner, even if only a leasehold reversioner) does have the of re-entry in case of breach of covenant on a long leasehold, and to terminate the lease by Court proceedings, so Imp's analogy is accurate but knocks-down his/her own argument.

Imp
20-07-2007, 10:32 AM
"This all boils down to the tenants having too much power."

My apologies for the irrational and un-thought through posts. I read the above statement and saw red.

DianeB
20-07-2007, 11:45 AM
Imp, just to clarify, are you suggesting that a good paying tenant should be allowed to stay in a house for as long as they like (and leave when they like having given suitable notice) whilst the person who owns it (the landlord) has no say whatsoever as to when he receives back his property?

Surely I must have misunderstood you!

Imp
20-07-2007, 12:02 PM
I don't know what I mean. In the past I believe what you described was the case. A tenancy could even be inherited. I think this is too much "power for the tenant", but 6 month tenancies are to much "power for the landlord". I am not clever enough to come up with a solution. I just wish the landlord would remember the house is the tenant's home and the way everything works should reflects that.

A 6 month tenancy would be akin to a 6 month mortgage. Imagine every 6 months wondering whether you will be asked to pay back your mortgage on your home in full, or "be allowed" to continue it for another 6 months, whether or not you have made the necessary payments. It is just unsettling.

DianeB
20-07-2007, 12:40 PM
There are a lot of landlords out there (including me) who just want a good tenant who will stay in their property long term. I guess it is trial and error for a landlord/tenant who are both at risk of not finding the ideal landlord/tenant.

If you haven't had any luck in staying in a property for over six months then I do empathise with you and hope that you do soon find your ideal solution.

Ruth Less
20-07-2007, 16:53 PM
There are a lot of landlords out there (including me) who just want a good tenant who will stay in their property long term. I guess it is trial and error for a landlord/tenant who are both at risk of not finding the ideal landlord/tenant.

Yes, but there are also many landlords who are taking a quick profit and are selling. Not their fault of course (have done it myself) but unsettling for tenants like me who've had to move on due to the landlord selling. It does get to the point where one feels very insecure.

Do you use the Sword of Damocles approach to serving S21 notices? It seems very popular with the landlords here. The insecurity is far worse for a tenant who has been served notice to leave and doesn't know if the landlord means it or not, after all the landlord could action the notice at any time after expiry.

Renting is no way to live long term, I'd hate to do it with a family. Short term is OK.

Esio Trot
21-07-2007, 14:05 PM
The eviction process should be changed as the landlords can not enter the property once the possession order has been made unless they are 101% certain that the tenant has left.. they need to instruct bailiffs to enter the property if they are unsure as to whether the tenant has vacated the property or not ... I think the law needs to be changed as it seems it is a waste of time to have to wait for the bailiffs once the possession order has been made as this can take 6-8weeks to be actioned

I have not done it myself, but I understand from a very knowledgeable poster on this site that should the property ever be left unoccupied once a court has given a possession date and this has passed, then the owner is entitled to enter and regain possession.

Jazmehay
10-09-2007, 17:08 PM
I have had a really bad experience so far trying to evict my tenant. After obtaining a possession order back in April from a london court and issuing a warrant to execute it, it has taken me nearly 5 months to finally obtain a Bailiffs appointment on the 12 September. Despite numerous telephone calls and letters to the Court they gave me the same excuse again and again, that they had a serious backlog and all their orders were processed centrally by another Court, I would just have to await my turn. In the meantime the tenant is sitting pretty waiting to be evicited and re-housed by the Council! The Justice system just does not seem to be fair.

I have just recently be told by my neighbours that the tenant has now got a dog who barks at anyone that goes by, the tenant's boyfriend has also had the cheek to use the neighbours outside water tap to wash his car and hurl abuse at my neighbour, the Police were called and cautioned him and gave my neighbour the option for him to be arrested on a count of theft but informed her that she would then have to give evidence in Court. She told me that this would be too much of a hassle and they are to be evicted soon anyway.

Question I need to ask is when the Bailiffs arrive on Wednesday and there is a large dog barking at the door will he still be able to gain possession? Not sure what the procedure is when dogs are involved.

Colincbayley
10-09-2007, 17:14 PM
Question I need to ask is when the Bailiffs arrive on Wednesday and there is a large dog barking at the door will he still be able to gain possession?

Yes.
The bailiffs are more than used to dogs, I think you will find the dog running the other way out of fear!

If your tenant is still in place on the 12th, then the bailiffs will turf them out, you should also have a locksmith on hand to change all the locks.


Make sure that it is the bailiff that enters the property first and then he will hand possession back to you. At which time, it's yours again ( Change them locks!! )

justaboutsane
10-09-2007, 17:59 PM
IMP I can see where you are coming from but I ALWAYS advise my tenants that we aim for LONG TERM lets. I advise that we issue a 6 month AST as too many tenants have worked the system.. BUT so long as rent is paid, the property is looked after and all rules are followed we are happy for people to remain as long as they wish. I have tenants who have been in residence for more than 4 years.

I see things from both sides, I am a property manager by profession and I have been both a social tenant and a private tenant. I have seen people flout the law and work every angle to swindle both landlords and tenants and I have been victim to a useless landlord.

I believe the law is balanced in most areas so long as you follow it. However .. where it is Imbalanced is in the case of those who REFUSE to pay, those who stay as long as possible and then move onto the next person. I agree with the theory that Non payment of rent just cos you don't feel like it is akin to walking into a supermarket and walking out refusing to pay. There are situations where people cannot pay and this is seperate altogether. I think if it can be proved that you are a "professional tenant" you should be sent to prison.. be it for fraud or theft.. I am not a lawyer!

Maybe if you do some research on this site Imp you will see that the tenants still do hold some weight in court.. but at the end of the day if a LL needs to sell up, or needs to move into the property themselves that is their right at the end of the day and provided they follow the law they should be issued possession.

To the OP I agree that Bailiffs should automatically be booked for the day of the possession. That way if the tenant is still in residence they are booted out .. LEGALLY!

Jazmehay
10-09-2007, 18:02 PM
Thanks thats reassuring, she has been a tenant from hell, dont think she will go quietly though. I have told the bailiff that she will be a problem.

Do I need to book a locksmith for the day? The bailiff has told us not to order one until the day just in case we dont need one, is this right? We will be changing the locks ourselves anyway.

ah84
10-09-2007, 21:40 PM
If you are expecting trouble you shouldadvise the police. I had an eviction of a deranged nutter and called old bill a couple of days before. They said they would keep it on their system but would not guarantee showing up. Om the day 4 cops showed up!!

As for locksmith if you are confident you can change locks yourself then you dont need one.

davidjohnbutton
11-09-2007, 10:43 AM
I hold the view that the law ought to be changed so that it is automatically an offence for a person to remain in a property once the date for possession on the court order has expired and it should be a continuing contempt of court for them to remain past the due date and further that any official advising the tenant to stay put until the bailiffs evict should also be held in contempt. (that should see a few housing officers jailed hopefully because they often encourage evictee tenants to break the law i.e. the court order)

I also think the landlord should have an absolute right to a court hearing and to possession within a fixed timetable rather than the hotch-potch system we have now where it can take between 3 months and upwards of 5 months to get possession - all the time potentially the tenant not paying rent.

I also think its bad that a claimant (landlord or not) has to pay a fee for almost every step of the action. Before long the court service will expect you to pay a fee before they answer the phone (watch for premium rate lines soon to every county court!!!!!!!)

Also, having attended a few evictions in my time - I think it should be an arrestable offence (to which the bailiff should have the power) to resist the eviction in any way or to obstruct or harass the landlord or his agent when they attend to take possession. I remember attending one where the tenant told me my "days were numbered", pulled the phone wires out (criminal damage) and did everything he could to make the experience uncomfortable for me. I never got my money - it cost me solicitors and court fees - but at least I got the house to re-let - it took 8 months start to finish.

ah84
11-09-2007, 10:52 AM
I hold the view that the law ought to be changed so that it is automatically an offence for a person to remain in a property once the date for possession on the court order has expired and it should be a continuing contempt of court for them to remain past the due date and further that any official advising the tenant to stay put until the bailiffs evict should also be held in contempt. (that should see a few housing officers jailed hopefully because they often encourage evictee tenants to break the law i.e. the court order)

I also think the landlord should have an absolute right to a court hearing and to possession within a fixed timetable rather than the hotch-potch system we have now where it can take between 3 months and upwards of 5 months to get possession - all the time potentially the tenant not paying rent.

I also think its bad that a claimant (landlord or not) has to pay a fee for almost every step of the action. Before long the court service will expect you to pay a fee before they answer the phone (watch for premium rate lines soon to every county court!!!!!!!)

Also, having attended a few evictions in my time - I think it should be an arrestable offence (to which the bailiff should have the power) to resist the eviction in any way or to obstruct or harass the landlord or his agent when they attend to take possession. I remember attending one where the tenant told me my "days were numbered", pulled the phone wires out (criminal damage) and did everything he could to make the experience uncomfortable for me. I never got my money - it cost me solicitors and court fees - but at least I got the house to re-let - it took 8 months start to finish.

Agree with everything you say. Going through "accelerate posession now". Court deems service a week after they send papers out then bailiffs in my court have said average wait for eviction is around 6 weeks. Who knows how long it will take the court to get the judge to look at the paperwork and grant possession!!

Colincbayley
11-09-2007, 10:59 AM
I hold the view that the law ought to be changed so that it is automatically an offence for a person to remain in a property once the date for possession on the court order has expired and it should be a continuing contempt of court for them to remain past the due date and further that any official advising the tenant to stay put until the bailiffs evict should also be held in contempt. (that should see a few housing officers jailed hopefully because they often encourage evictee tenants to break the law i.e. the court order)

I also think the landlord should have an absolute right to a court hearing and to possession within a fixed timetable rather than the hotch-potch system we have now where it can take between 3 months and upwards of 5 months to get possession - all the time potentially the tenant not paying rent.

I also think its bad that a claimant (landlord or not) has to pay a fee for almost every step of the action. Before long the court service will expect you to pay a fee before they answer the phone (watch for premium rate lines soon to every county court!!!!!!!)

Also, having attended a few evictions in my time - I think it should be an arrestable offence (to which the bailiff should have the power) to resist the eviction in any way or to obstruct or harass the landlord or his agent when they attend to take possession. I remember attending one where the tenant told me my "days were numbered", pulled the phone wires out (criminal damage) and did everything he could to make the experience uncomfortable for me. I never got my money - it cost me solicitors and court fees - but at least I got the house to re-let - it took 8 months start to finish.

Couldn't agree more.
Why can't we have a court just for housing problems? That way, at least we could be sure that the judge new the law!

Jazmehay
13-09-2007, 21:46 PM
Hi all, just to let you know finally got the tenant out on the 12 Sept!. When we arrived at the property there was no sign of tenant, bailiff was due to attend for 11.45 am. We had booked for Police assistance a couple of days earlier after discovering that the tenant had been keeping a large barking dog for the last 3 weeks and tenant had been a nuisance to our neighbours. Police arrived at 11.30 am and checked the property before giving us the all clear to enter. Upon speaking with the neighbours the tenants had left that morning around 9.30 am, luckily there was not too much mess however they had managed to kick and punch a couple of walls before leaving.

The bailiff did not turn up until 1.00pm explaining that she had an awkward eviction where dogs were involved! Later on that day the tenants drove past the house in their brand new bmw sniggering at us, probably ready to pounce on the next unexpected LL! Unfortunatley the tenant's mum lives around the corner so we will probably get a few intimidating visits before they get bored!

We have learnt a big lesson and that is never to rent to Council tenants and definately double check every single piece of paperwork with the Managing Agents and vet the tenant yourself before letting out property. I have learnt that London Agents cannot be trusted and have heard many stories from other people to confirm this. They think that because you are a remote LL (we live in Birmingham) they can pull the wool over your eyes, which was the case with us and don't we know it now!

So 6 months later and financial resources drained, finally got our house back. We are selling property now and buying more locally where we can keep an eye on it! ;)

Colincbayley
14-09-2007, 04:51 AM
Please it all got sorted in the end, well done.

DianeB
14-09-2007, 09:48 AM
Also, don't forget that whilst their brand new BMW is steadily depreciating in value - your house is doing the opposite!

ah84
17-09-2007, 10:54 AM
Good to hear all went well. I had this fruitcake tenant who started moving his stuff out at 4am on the morning of eviction. He was still moving his stuff out when the bailiffis came but was just putting it on the front lawn. He then put some of it on the neighbours driveway claiming she was her friend. She was scared of him! I agreed that he could keep moving his stuff out whilst the locksmiths were still working but once they were finished he had to leave.

One of the bailiffs came back later on as did the police after his stuff being in the road for a few days he finally took most of his stuff. However I still have his widescreen tv and printer but they have been lying outside for 2 years!!!

speedbox
09-06-2009, 12:01 PM
I have to say that this is a first rental for me and hopefully the last. Once they are out if I can sell it I will.

I'm truly shocked at how little is in our favour as landlords :mad:

Like the poster before me, I did the property up to a very high standard to maximise the rental price but now the tenants have threatened to trash it upon leaving. If they do then that's another £10,000 down the drain.

The tenants are due to have a baby any day (if it's not already arrived) but I do not feel in the slightest bit guilty about evicting them. They should have thought about the repercussions before ripping me off for thousands!

I'd sling them out tomorrow if it were possible, in the meantime I have destroyed their credit rating so they won't be able to rent easily in future.

Too much is stacked in the tenants favour and not enough protection is given to landlords. I did everything possible to prevent this situation. Thank god I took out a rent default policy, although they only pay five payments and that runs out this month so it's even more important to speed up the eviction now.

There should be a register somewhere so that we can keep track of non payers because that way others might not get stung. If the register only allowed you to update details of tenants with eviction orders against them then surely we couldn't get done for liable?

I found out that the 2nd cheque made it to the court today and should get a warrant number tomorrow, fingers crossed, then I can contact the bailiff

Thanks to everyone for your ongoing advice, it's really appreciated

Speedbox

speedbox
11-06-2009, 08:47 AM
Morning all

Spoke to the bailiff today and the eviction is set for July 9th :D

not long to wait now, cheers to everyone for all the ongoing advice

Speedbox

archie
11-06-2009, 09:21 AM
Hiya,
Am unsure on the times from a Possession order to getting my tenants out. My possession hearing is 9th July!. If my tenants do not go then how quickly can i get the baillifs in and can i appoint my own private firm to evict after 14 days or do i have to go back to court and wait another 4-6 weeks for court appointed baillifs, which i feel is totally unrealistic as the tenants are still in the flat living rent free for now 3 months!

Any help greatly appreciated.

theartfullodger
11-06-2009, 10:47 AM
Kenco


And it really annoys me when a relatively new tennant with no new extenuating circumstances thinks they can muck you about month after month!

Stone me, what did you expect?? Of course some tenants (only 2 n's in tenant) will muck LL about: In my experience most don't. You might not believe it but some LLs muck Tenants about.

If you can't cope with that sort of pressure, should you ask yourself if you are in the right business??

Cheers!

Lodger

mind the gap
11-06-2009, 11:17 AM
Kenco



Stone me, what did you expect?? Of course some tenants (only 2 n's in tenant) will muck LL about: In my experience most don't. You might not believe it but some LLs muck Tenants about.

If you can't cope with that sort of pressure, should you ask yourself if you are in the right business??

Cheers!

Lodger

Tennants? Cheers? Is it your round, Lodger? :)

jeffrey
11-06-2009, 11:24 AM
Tennants? Cheers? Is it your round, Lodger?
Yes, and why is the tenant of a pub often only a licensee yet called a landlord?

mind the gap
11-06-2009, 11:27 AM
Yes, and why is the tenant of a pub often only a licensee yet called a landlord?

'Lardlord' is the the LLZ misnomer I like best!

speedbox
11-06-2009, 11:35 AM
Hiya,
Am unsure on the times from a Possession order to getting my tenants out. My possession hearing is 9th July!. If my tenants do not go then how quickly can i get the baillifs in and can i appoint my own private firm to evict after 14 days or do i have to go back to court and wait another 4-6 weeks for court appointed baillifs, which i feel is totally unrealistic as the tenants are still in the flat living rent free for now 3 months!

Any help greatly appreciated.

Your lucky, I haven't had any rent since Christmas mate, rent arrears now stand at £4000 + !

Firstly it depends what type of possession order is granted, it can vary from immediate possession to a 28 possession. I was lucky to get an immediate possession, I hear the norm is either 14 or 28 days.

If your tenants don't vacate (like mine) then you're at the mercy of the bailiffs. You can only use the court appointed bailiffs, not your own. Be nice and grovel like mad to the bailiffs to get yourself further up the list. There's tons of repossessions going on in this credit crunch. I had my hearing on May 29th and eviction is July 9th, mine was at Bow county court.

Make sure you have served all the correct notices and on time or else the court will dismiss your case and then you'll end up waiting another 6 weeks for a new court date.

Use every trick in the book to get the magistrate on side, if tenants have threatened you then use that too. Even better if they fail to turn up for the hearing like mine did :D

Good luck mate!

theartfullodger
11-06-2009, 13:54 PM
Cheers? Is it your round, Lodger?

It's always my round: You've gorra find me first though....

Cheers!

Lodger

jeffrey
11-06-2009, 14:03 PM
It's always my round: You've gorra find me first though....

Cheers!

Lodger
Yes: "Location: Scottish Highlands & Windsor".

sears
07-07-2009, 13:13 PM
The court has ordered my tenant to pay arrears & vacate the property by a certain date - this has passed. They have not paid a penny & are still resident. I have received a date from the bailiffs to go round.

I am told by the bailiffs that if they cannot receive any money from my tenant on the day of eviction, then they will leave all tenants possesions in the house, evict tenant, change the locks & hand me the keys.

It is then between the tenant & I to come to some sort of arrangement in order for me to return possesions.

My question is - Is this really the case? Can I sell the possesions? What can the tenant do legally to make me return possesions?
I thought that the bailiffss would remove articles to the value of debt & then evict the tenant or am I missing something here?

SALL
07-07-2009, 14:19 PM
The court has ordered my tenant to pay arrears & vacate the property by a certain date - this has passed. They have not paid a penny & are still resident. I have received a date from the bailiffs to go round.

I am told by the bailiffs that if they cannot receive any money from my tenant on the day of eviction, then they will leave all tenants possesions in the house, evict tenant, change the locks & hand me the keys.

It is then between the tenant & I to come to some sort of arrangement in order for me to return possesions.

My question is - Is this really the case? Can I sell the possesions? What can the tenant do legally to make me return possesions?
I thought that the bailiffss would remove articles to the value of debt & then evict the tenant or am I missing something here?


Yeah the above is about right. But, bailiffs will not change the locks and give you the key. You need to arrange your own lock smith to do this or you can do this yourself, if you are competent enough to do it.

You can not sell the tenant's belonging and if you do, he/she might sue you. You will also need to store the belongings for a certain period of time. You can charge the tenant fair amount to store the stuff. But getting the money out of the tenant will be another issue.

You should hope for the tenant to have taken all their stuff and left on the day bailiff visits.

You may also want to request police presence, if you are expecting trouble on the day.

sears
24-07-2009, 10:37 AM
I am now really confused & upset by the UK legal system. The court has ordered my tenant to pay the rent he owes me but he does not. My tenant has money in the bank (as per bank statements he showed me, saying he cannot access due to money laundering checks etc.) + he also has assets.
If the bailiffs leave without any money do the courts not intervene & instruct his bank to handover money etc.?

I can not believe that authorities are powerless if a person refuses to pay yet does have the money!

Is there another process I should follow through the courts to freeze bank accounts or freeze assets to obtain the money owed?

theartfullodger
24-07-2009, 10:54 AM
Re tenants goods.. see
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/uncollected_goods.htm

The Bailiffs are correct, but hopefully the tenant will have flitted and taken his stuff with him. Beware the "bags of rubbish" he leaves but later claims are valuable antiques or whatever...

Sorry to hear that

I am now really confused & upset by the UK legal system.

... but that's the law! No offence but if you can't stomach doing business & complying with the law is this the business for you to be in??

To get the money you'd probably be best to pursue the small-claims route.. and you will need time, patience & money to do so.. That is the world we live in and you've found some of the costs of being a Landlord that occasionally bite us... How much does he owe?? You at least know bank details .. collect as much other info from the applications forms he filled in when he took out the tenancy - NI number, DoB, photo, references, contact details at work/family for emergencies etc etc.. as these will hopefully help any tracing agency to find him.

Cheers!

Lodger

fraser
24-07-2009, 10:55 AM
This all boils down to the tenants having too much power.

Tenants do have too much power. However, without tenants there would be no landlords so one has to be careful. I have had a couple of problems with tenants in the past but they are - in the main - very good.

The main problems I have are surrounding the letting agents who time and time again seem to charge me fees which I feel are unfair. I read the following article: http://www.consumer-help.co.uk/landlord-compensation-for-unfair-charges/estate-agents-ordered-to-pay-buy-to-let-landlord-compensation-for-unfair-charges/ and it provoked a reaction from within.

I have already contact my solicitor but I would love any advice or feedback on whether unfair letting agent charges are rife.
:mad:

norroy
24-07-2009, 11:50 AM
The biggest problem is the delay in getting a court date. Until the law is changed to stop the tactics employed by non-paying scum, these problems will persist.

Tenants should have two weeks to sort out any rental arrears. If they fail to do this (or leave) a landlord should be able to call the police to provide them with back up whilst the vermin and it's junk are removed from the property.

No exceptions.

jta
24-07-2009, 12:31 PM
The biggest problem is the delay in getting a court date. Until the law is changed to stop the tactics employed by non-paying scum, these problems will persist.

Tenants should have two weeks to sort out any rental arrears. If they fail to do this (or leave) a landlord should be able to call the police to provide them with back up whilst the vermin and it's junk are removed from the property.

No exceptions.

Don't you think you are being a bit harsh, there is a noted sub-class of tenant that will take advantage of whatever they can, there is also a sub-class of Landlords that will do the same. Most people though, be they landlords or tenants, have no intention of 'turning the other over'. Circumstances can change for everyone, at times very drastically. Are these the 'scum' and 'vermin' you are referring to?

norroy
24-07-2009, 13:22 PM
If they expect to stay on in a property without paying any rent, then yes I do.

Of course people's circumstances change. If they really cannot pay, then they should throw themselves at the mercy of the state.

Private landlords are businessmen, not charities.

jta
24-07-2009, 13:37 PM
If they expect to stay on in a property without paying any rent, then yes I do.

Of course people's circumstances change. If they really cannot pay, then they should throw themselves at the mercy of the state.

Private landlords are businessmen, not charities.

So, what you are saying then, is that someone who was paying their rent on time every month, who then loses his/her job, or becomes very ill, etc. etc. is automatically downgraded to 'scum and vermin'? I think you need to grow up a little.

theartfullodger
24-07-2009, 13:46 PM
Private landlords are businessmen, not charities.

Ever fallen on hard times, had a relative/close acquaintance go through a really rough patch?? Any views on behaving in a morally fair & considerate manner to your fellow men??

And no, I don't always behave in a considerate way myself, since you ask...

jta's views on growing up seem entirely reasonable and considered.

Cheers & Best wishes to all, including those who disagree with me...

Lodger

davidjohnbutton
24-07-2009, 15:33 PM
A good landlord will keep a very tight rein on credit control. Diary-write the date rent is due - make it crystal clear to the tenant that you will contact them if it is not paid by the due date. When you say you will contact them if rent is unpaid - do it - don't leave it in the hope that it will magically appear - contact the tenant and find out what the problem is - set a new date they can meet. Consider the relationship broken down if you cannot contact the tenant at either home or work (last resort) or through relatives. You will not break the law by making daily contact attempts until the tenant reponds - so if they scream "harassment" point out that the law allows you to make reasonable telephone calls/visits/letters in order to obtain your rent.

When the second payment is not made (assuming a monthly payment agreement), issue the S8 notice the following day citing 2 months unpaid rent - if you dont know how or when to use the form, or what form to use, find someone who does. Serve the notice and obtain some proof - post is ok but post it twice from different post offices and get a certificate of posting - tenant will find it hard to allege he/she didnt get it!!!!

Dont' *od about - when that S8 notice runs out - get the court proceedings issued using possession online where the fee is £100 instead of £150 and you geta date almost always online for the hearing. Keep the tenant informed about progress AND DO WHAT YOU SAY YOU WILL DO ON THE DATE YOU SAID YOU WILL DO IT - don't delay, don't give the tenant any more chances after the second months rent is unpaid.

Turn up at court armed with all paperwork and a proper schedule of arrears. Ask for a possession order - do not care what the tenant's circumstances are - they have Housing Benefit/LHA to help them as well as crisis loans and other support.

If the tenant coughs up with money - then take it - you dont have to enforce the possession warrant if you dont want to and you wish to give them some more time to pay.

LANDLORD REMEMBER ITS YOUR HOUSE AND ITS YOU OUT ON THE STREET IF YOU GIVE YOUR TENANT FREE LODGINGS. Harsh words follow: If your tenant says he has no rent money for you cos he lost his job - tell him to claim HB/LHA or get another job. If someone's died - well they got till the next rent day to sort it out. If they are ill - well, just how exactly does that stop you getting LHA/HB to pay your rent. If they have spent the LHA on anything other than paying rent - then they are thieves - they have stolen your rent money - it was given to them to pay rent. Stop it happening again - get in touch with the local authority and get it paid direct to you as landlord.

I regularly deal with clients who have let arrears get up to several thousand £££ through so called sympathetic dealing with tenants.

Act tough with fairness and you will be respected - act weakly or not at all and you will be taken advantage of to your cost!!!!

jeffrey
24-07-2009, 15:35 PM
Not going to be particularly popular- but that advice is sound.

Krispy
24-07-2009, 16:14 PM
Not going to be particularly popular- but that advice is sound.

Is this true? If so why are there never any prosecutions for it?

"If they have spent the LHA on anything other than paying rent - then they are thieves - they have stolen your rent money"

davidjohnbutton
24-07-2009, 17:08 PM
So far, I have never seen any prosecutions for an LHA tenant spending their LHA on other than rent (excluding the excess of LHA over contractual rent if there is any of course).

Local authorities I have spoken to have said that they would not prosecute any tenant for misusing their LHA in this way - they regard the money as the tenant's and consider they have no control over how the tenant should spend "their (i.e. the tenant's) money" However, consider this - suppose A gives B some money to give to C - it is conditional that B must give C the money. B does not and instead spends it on whatever. B is guilty of theft. Now read A as Local Authority, B as tenant and C as landlord.

I personally would complain to the police, the LHA department, the council's complaints procedure and finally the local government ombudsman or whatever they are called these days and I would make a personal point of visiting the auditor of the council's accounts to lay a complaint there as well.

But - it aint happened to me yet - my tenants pay rent promptly. Probably because of the fair but firm attitude I have towards my collection tactics and computer driven debtor control.

sears
29-07-2009, 21:41 PM
Just sitting here drinking glass of wine trying to absorb what happened today.......Bailiff & I went to property today to evict tenant & receive rent arrears as per money order. As expected, tenant moved out early hours this morning (around 4am) taking all possesions & leaving no forwarding address.
Tenant was hoping to receive cash funds from somebody that owed him last night but they never turned up.
He left the place spotless & returned all furnishings to correct place!

So how do I go about getting my money. Court Bailiff tells me I can freeze bank account & I do not need a third party debt order as I already have the money order from the court (stating the tenant must pay by x date) but the bailiff cannot offer advice on how to do this. (any advice, anyone?)

I am also considering using a detective agency or debt collector - any advice, recommendation etc.

The tenant is an employee of an overseas company based overseas & is not a UK resident. Agreement is in his name. I have usual information - Car Reg, parents mob & home telephone numbers overseas, bank account, friends details in UK etc. etc.

The strange thing is, the tenant rang me today on my mobile to explain that he left as per instruction from his solicitor (he will supply more info tomorrow). He does not want any problems and intends to pay me the money. I do not believe this for a moment hence the reason why I want to pursue via debt agency or private investigator.
I am not being harsh on this tenant and would allow him grace in terms of hardship etc.
Any help would be appreciated & I will update on any progress etc.

quinie
30-07-2009, 11:44 AM
Going backwards a little bit to one of the earlier posts I personally think that tenants who are on housing benefit and don't use it to pay the rent should be made to pay it all back - even if it means cutting their benefits for years.

My tenant hasn't paid my rent since bloody May - she gets the money every two weeks from the LHA so where is my rent.

I was lenient at first and was willing to wait while she got the rent payments sorted out but she only paid it "on time" once (although this was 6 weeks late she has been that late for ages anyway)

Now she has just stopped paying completely and while I wait for the legalities to run their course she will not pay any more - why should she - I can't inform the housing authoirty to stop paying her and I can't force her to give the money back.

There will be no recourse for her - she will carry on living there until the very last day that she has to move out (or be carried) and will not have to pay anything back anywhere along the line and the only person who will feel these thousands of pounds of loss will be me!

How the sod can that be fair?!

Mrs Jones
30-07-2009, 11:46 AM
Why did you not apply to the council after 8 weeks to have it paid directly to you?

quinie
30-07-2009, 13:11 PM
She has to tell them to pay it to us - we have asked her to apply to have it paid directly to me but funny enough she's not keen - I'm not surprised :(

Emma1973
30-07-2009, 14:15 PM
She has to tell them to pay it to us - we have asked her to apply to have it paid directly to me but funny enough she's not keen

Not quite correct, once the tenant is in 8 weeks arrears the LA must pay the LHA directly to the LL. She has no choice or say in this. On your local council website there should be a form where you can apply for this. Hopefully you have full records showing she has not paid, submit these as well and the LA will suspend her benefit, investigate then pay benefit to you. Be aware though, if she is able to reduce those arrears to less than 8 weeks the LA may well pay her direct again!

havensRus
30-07-2009, 20:26 PM
She has to tell them to pay it to us - we have asked her to apply to have it paid directly to me

Wherever you got that information from, it is wrong.

Once a T claiming HB is 8 weeks or more in arrears, you as the LL can request the LA to pay the HB to you directly, as the previous poster confirmed. Call them up first thing, follow up in writing immediately. And keep the pressure on till you get confirmation it will be paid to you.

Issue a S8 and a S21 and start the process of getting the T out. Don't delay.