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gnvqsos
25-07-2005, 14:50 PM
My tenants are now in arrears having missed their second monthly payment.I have been in constant communication with them.Their daughter moved away and their housing benefit was revised downwards by £175 a month.they have found it hard to find the extra £175 as on Job Seekers Allowance etc.We have agreed mutually they should move and I have served a Section 21 notice.However they have missed payments and I am anxious to act promptly.So far I have written asking they deal with the matter urgently but they have not responded.I want to resolve the matter amicably without recourse to law but I am prepared to take action if they do not respond to my reasonable requests.They own a car(value £2000-3000) but I do not know of any other assets they have.

Is their a simple procedure I can follow such as using the County or Small Claims courts?Would it be wise to contact the Housing Department as they seem to be witholding their £375 benefit rather than paying me.This seems rather fraudulent.

MrWoof
25-07-2005, 16:21 PM
As you have served an S21, you have already resorted to the law, tell the tenants that either they agree with you a repayment of arrears or you will use the small claims court. As for them withholding their HB payment, tell HB yourself, this won't get you any money as they need the tenant's permission to pay you directly but they will stop HB payments to the tenant while they investigate. It might be worth your while telling that to the tenants as well, they would lose HB and gain a CCJ from you. They may also be committing a fraud but HB would be the people to tell you that.

Paul_f
25-07-2005, 22:34 PM
Mr Woof. It's no good answering a question before you know what the question is! Such as - is it within the fixed term or not? You don't know if a S.21 Notice is appropriate yet, so why not ask the poster these questions? :-

"When did the tenancy start, and what is the fixed term?" also, "When did you serve the S.21 Notice, which version is it, how much notice did you give, and from what date is it effective?" You now have my permission to proceeed..................! :rolleyes:

dazalock
26-07-2005, 09:13 AM
Surely some advise is better than none. I found Mr Woof's post useful as I didn’t know about the HB stopping payments to the tenant. As you have rightly said in the past, a search on the forum will deliver a wealth of information on S21's and for Mr Woof to post a comprehensive post covering all permutations would be lengthy and possibly he wouldn’t bother. Surely as a forum, its better to make points that the poster may find helpful rather than using every thread as a white paper on tenancy law.

mjpl
26-07-2005, 13:12 PM
I agree. There may be 100's of posts covering each subject but everybody has an individualised problem and wants some reassurance.

The Housing Benefit departments will certainly stop payment if they find out that the Landlord is not receiving the money as this is the only use allowable.

I would advise you that a CCJ is potentially not a good idea as rarely does it recover costs especially from benefit tenants. Also, the car will be almost useless as ownership can change very quickly or it will simply be sold and the money spent.

If you can supply more information about the term itself I will try and help.

gnvqsos
26-07-2005, 17:47 PM
The tenants have been in occupation for about 28 months and have exceeded their fixed term of twelve months on the AST.This has become a periodic tenancy and I served the S21 (4) (A) notice.Thanks for your help and advice with the HB-I may notify the authorities and request direct payment to myself albeit for a very short period of time.

gnvqsos
29-07-2005, 18:34 PM
I have now received one months rent and now need one more payment assuming that the deposit will be used for a third monthly period.Thanks once more for advice given

zoe
29-07-2005, 19:12 PM
Paul F

You seem to be imagining questions that were not there. gnvqsos did not ask whether or not the notice he gave was approprioate !

I know you do give good advice but you should refrain from always trying to catch out the people who do respond. you know that in order to give a fully accurate analysis of all the issues that a poster may have that lots of questions are required but this is a forum and quick and frinedly advice is all that is required.

I have seen lots of your "put your thinking caps on guys" type posts and find them very rude.

Zoe

justaboutsane
30-07-2005, 11:05 AM
mjpl, YOu say a CCJ is useless, OK you may not get your money but it may prevent other Landlords falling into the same trap. If all Landlords put CCJs on tenants who refuse to pay then less Landlords would fall victim to the seriel offenders. There are tenants out there who move from one landlord to another leaving a trail of debt behind. Yes it is an expense, but would you not appreciate it if it saved you more money in the future. These people need to get the message that it is NOT accpetable to do this.

davidjohnbutton
30-07-2005, 12:10 PM
The problem is that general a CCJ does not "follow you about". A tenant defaults on rent at property A, a CCJ is obtained and registered there, in the meantime, he has managed to move to property B where there is no judgment registered against his name (though if the landlord from A catches up, he can enforce at property B)

However, if using the same scenario above, the CCJ is registered at property B then it does at least stop the tenant from obtaining credit until he moves to property C or D.

I have got a tenant who owes me money from 7 years ago which despite various attempts at enforcment, is still outstanding. He has moved 4 times, finally into the current property where he then obtained 5 separate loans for money to buy his child new £80 trainers and go on holiday!!!! He has no intention of paying me except if he if forced to - no job, no bank account - I am unlikely to get my money. Now if the CCJ had "followed" him, he would have at least been prevented from getting more debt on.

Paul_f
31-07-2005, 08:49 AM
Paul F

You seem to be imagining questions that were not there. gnvqsos did not ask whether or not the notice he gave was approprioate !

I know you do give good advice but you should refrain from always trying to catch out the people who do respond. you know that in order to give a fully accurate analysis of all the issues that a poster may have that lots of questions are required but this is a forum and quick and frinedly advice is all that is required.

I have seen lots of your "put your thinking caps on guys" type posts and find them very rude.

ZoeWell, my delicate little flower, if you think my posts rude then you can either ignore them or file 'em where the sun don't shine!!

dazalock
31-07-2005, 14:15 PM
Would that be your Office Paul ;)

Tootsie Roll
02-08-2005, 13:19 PM
The problem is that general a CCJ does not "follow you about". A tenant defaults on rent at property A, a CCJ is obtained and registered there, in the meantime, he has managed to move to property B where there is no judgment registered against his name (though if the landlord from A catches up, he can enforce at property B)

However, if using the same scenario above, the CCJ is registered at property B then it does at least stop the tenant from obtaining credit until he moves to property C or D.

I have got a tenant who owes me money from 7 years ago which despite various attempts at enforcment, is still outstanding. He has moved 4 times, finally into the current property where he then obtained 5 separate loans for money to buy his child new £80 trainers and go on holiday!!!! He has no intention of paying me except if he if forced to - no job, no bank account - I am unlikely to get my money. Now if the CCJ had "followed" him, he would have at least been prevented from getting more debt on.

David

A CCJ will follow the person: Firstly it is highly likely that they have a bank account of somesort in which case any previous address that the account was held at will be linked with the new address that the person moves to therefore making the CCJ visible to anyone who does a search. Secondly any new loan application will need at least 3 years residency details which should also uncover any CCJ's from previous addresses, I would recommend obtaining 3 years address details as part of your landlord referencing.

I will concede that it is not impossible for someone to get round the Credit Reference File information but it is getting more and more difficult.

MrShed
02-08-2005, 13:30 PM
To answer your two points:

1) Yes, but what is to stop someone merely not telling the bank they have moved? And/or just setting up a new account? Chances are fairly good that if they owe money thru CCJ they also are overdrawn so woul have no problems doing this

2) Yes they have to give 3 years residency details, however....this does not mean the CCJ "follows them" merely means that the CCJ wll affect them for up to 3 years after they move. Any loan/HP company cannot give the new address details to any authorities due to DPA. Plus, you can easily just say you have been living abroad.

Tootsie Roll
02-08-2005, 13:43 PM
To answer your two points:

1) Yes, but what is to stop someone merely not telling the bank they have moved? And/or just setting up a new account? Chances are fairly good that if they owe money thru CCJ they also are overdrawn so woul have no problems doing this

2) Yes they have to give 3 years residency details, however....this does not mean the CCJ "follows them" merely means that the CCJ wll affect them for up to 3 years after they move. Any loan/HP company cannot give the new address details to any authorities due to DPA. Plus, you can easily just say you have been living abroad.

1) So the new account would need 3 years address details or if claiming to have moved from overseas copies of bank statements going back at least 3 months. It is easy to get an account if you already have one but very difficult if you have no credit history at all.

2) OK the CCJ may stay at the old address but if you are using old addresses for referencing then you should pick up previous history. Any gaps in the voters role information should be questioned and if in doubt don't rent to them. All lending institutions update the CRF's every month at least including all linked addresses.

Like I said, it is not impossible to 'disappear' but it does take someone with a good knowledge of how it works plus they have to be very creative in which case as a landlord you're probably screwed anyway.

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