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View Full Version : Can Corgi fitters carry out electrical work ? ics?



pippay
26-05-2007, 01:21 AM
I wonder if anyone knows the answer to this ..

Corgi fitters, (subcontracted by a MASSIVE national building company who were contracted by LL) installed new GFCH to property as result of disrepair dispute.

They also connected the boiler to the existing electrical circuit using an existing spur that used to be an extractor, in days long gone, which had a cover plate over it.

Are they allowed to do electrical work? (on the assumption they were not qualified electricians). In fact, does this type of work come under Part P regs ? Surely old electrics near a gas installation is pretty risky?

The reason I'm asking is that the electrical wiring and fuse box has been in situ for at least 30 years and the fuse box is an old fashioned one (the old fuses which need fuse wire replaced when something blows) with no RCD protected circuits and the cover of wires leading to the fuse box are looking pretty worn and thin.

Should the Corgi guys have connected it themselves or got an electrician in to connect it AND in any event, is it incumbent upon them to report the condition of the electrical wiring and fuse box.
In fact, whose responsibility is it to ensure that the electrics are regularly inspected and maintained in the normal course of events ?

Should the LL's contractors have ensured this was done (bearing in mind they would have seen the existing old fuse box when turning the electricity off to connect the boiler ) and if so, report it to the LL? or was the onus of responsibility on the tenant to bring it to the LL's attention during the course of the disrepair dispute (that didn't actually have anything to do with the electrics) bearing in mind that the tenant isn't a qualified electrician and is an OAP ?

BTW the wiring to the extractor spur has two different sized conduits which may not be a safety issue but I mention it to show how "cowboyish" the new wiring connection appears to be. They didn't have enough of one of the same size to finish the job, apparently !

The situation is more complicated because the LL who did the disrepair work (finally - after several changes of LL's over the years who sold up rather than do the work) has now sold the property to a new LL, so I'm trying to establish who would be responsible for it.

Thanks in advance, folks !! :confused:

pippay
26-05-2007, 11:19 AM
I think you misunderstood the question. Apologies for not making it clearer.

I'm not asking if Corgi guys have to be Part P qualified or even electricians as part of their Corgi registration ... what I'm asking is whether, as unqualified electricians, they should be wiring in the boiler or should they have got a qualified electrician to do it.

I agree with your comments about the coduit - my views exactly.

As for the Landlord, because of the on going disrepair dispute and the fact that their contractors have carried out electrical work when doing it, should the contractors have reported it to the LL, and if so, should the LL have instigated a qualified inspection at the very least. Or are you saying that the LL doesn't have to do anything unless it's pointed out by the tenant?

We are trying to ascertain whose responsibility it may be .. the old LL or the new one !! We will be advising them both though but i daresay there will be some "in-fighting" trying to alleviate themselves from the responsibility ..





as far as I know CORGI certified individuals do not have to be Part P qualified - some just fit the boiler and leave the flex hanging there for a qualified person to fit. Some just leave a plug on the end and instruct the LL to get a qualified electrician in to fit a fused spur if needed.

I would ask the landlord if there are plans to upgrade the electrics as there are causes for concern.

Using the wrong conduit is not a problem, it just makes an old installation look even dodgier. Likewise using trunking for electrical sockets. Nothing makes a good installation look bad like trunking. Always get them chased in!

jimk2
26-05-2007, 20:59 PM
I think you misunderstood the question. Apologies for not making it clearer.

I'm not asking if Corgi guys have to be Part P qualified or even electricians as part of their Corgi registration ... what I'm asking is whether, as unqualified electricians, they should be wiring in the boiler or should they have got a qualified electrician to do it.

I agree with your comments about the coduit - my views exactly.

As for the Landlord, because of the on going disrepair dispute and the fact that their contractors have carried out electrical work when doing it, should the contractors have reported it to the LL, and if so, should the LL have instigated a qualified inspection at the very least. Or are you saying that the LL doesn't have to do anything unless it's pointed out by the tenant?

We are trying to ascertain whose responsibility it may be .. the old LL or the new one !! We will be advising them both though but i daresay there will be some "in-fighting" trying to alleviate themselves from the responsibility ..


As corgi registered gas engineers work on the mechanical/electrical and electronic aspects of the boiler surely this makes them competent/qualified enough to connect the boiler too the mains.

markfrancospiller
26-05-2007, 21:32 PM
try looking on trustcorgi.com

as a corgi registered person there are different schemes you can become a member in.... (corgi isNOT just being a PLUMBER!!!!)
Gas scheme
Plumbing scheme
Electrical scheme
Ventilation scheme

therefore when someone says I;M corgi registered, best to see their ID or certificates and while your at it thier PUBLIC LIABILITY INSURANCE.
it really depends what they are qualified in to say which works they can carry out!

THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE COVERED TO CARRY OUT ELECTRICAL WORK, but they may have personally took on the job on the occupiers behalf as its a very simple procedure to link a boiler up to an existing fused/ switched spur!
you wolkd have to look into the electrical side further as i;m not sure whether this is deemed as work that must be carried out by a FULLY QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN.

.......
On your question re WHICH LANDLORD.... it depends on who owns the property.. therefore i believe it to be there FULL RESPONSIBILITY,
if landlords have changed then surely the house has been passed through solicitors and gone through a full legal protocol and legal change of ownership .... therefore they take on full responsibility of that house.

put it this way, if you sold your house today and the new landlord asked you round a week later to cut the lawn, fix a window and upgrade some electrics what would you say>? i know where i;d tell them to go!!!

dont take my comments the wrong way if by any chance if gone totally wrong or misunderstod you, all is wrote just as my personal views, you can take then or leave them

regards mark

pippay
27-05-2007, 07:53 AM
Thanks for your info re: Corgi engineers. It puts things into perspective.

However, even if they are qualified to carry out simple electrics surely they have a duty of care to point out any electrical installation that could be deemed to be potentially unsafe, such as this one, to the person/s contracting them to do the work as well as the occupier ?

As far as the LL is concerned, it appears that whilst the new LL bought the property (its a commercial property below and 4 maisonettes above) there appears to be some sort of clause entered into between them regarding the disrepair issues of this particular maisonette and limiting the new LL's liability in this respect.

So I envisage that when both old and new LL's are told about the electrics, they will be fighting it out amongst themselves as to who is responsible.

But they will both will be told - just to be on the safe side :D


try looking on trustcorgi.com

as a corgi registered person there are different schemes you can become a member in.... (corgi isNOT just being a PLUMBER!!!!)
Gas scheme
Plumbing scheme
Electrical scheme
Ventilation scheme

therefore when someone says I;M corgi registered, best to see their ID or certificates and while your at it thier PUBLIC LIABILITY INSURANCE.
it really depends what they are qualified in to say which works they can carry out!

THEY MAY OR MAY NOT BE COVERED TO CARRY OUT ELECTRICAL WORK, but they may have personally took on the job on the occupiers behalf as its a very simple procedure to link a boiler up to an existing fused/ switched spur!
you wolkd have to look into the electrical side further as i;m not sure whether this is deemed as work that must be carried out by a FULLY QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN.

.......
On your question re WHICH LANDLORD.... it depends on who owns the property.. therefore i believe it to be there FULL RESPONSIBILITY,
if landlords have changed then surely the house has been passed through solicitors and gone through a full legal protocol and legal change of ownership .... therefore they take on full responsibility of that house.

put it this way, if you sold your house today and the new landlord asked you round a week later to cut the lawn, fix a window and upgrade some electrics what would you say>? i know where i;d tell them to go!!!

dont take my comments the wrong way if by any chance if gone totally wrong or misunderstod you, all is wrote just as my personal views, you can take then or leave them

regards mark

Dave77
27-05-2007, 09:53 AM
Very few CORGI heating engineers are formally qualified to carry out electrical work so compliance means employing an electrician to connect up the boiler if installed in the kitchen.

P.Pilcher
27-05-2007, 10:42 AM
Presumably this explains why my next door neighbour who has just retired but intends to spend the next few years in the property business, has just obtained his Corgi registration certificate and is spending this week doing a course at the local tech to enable him to do "part p" work!

P.P.

pippay
27-05-2007, 16:19 PM
Very interesting - thanks Dave, I will have to start investigating whether the said engineers were "qualified " to do the electrics !

It was installed in the kitchen; to an existing very old electrical installation and wiring with no RCD protected circuit.

Personally, as a lay woman and blonde at that, I would have thought that gas and old electrics are not a good mix and therefore a " I know a bit about electrics" person wouldn't really cut it in terms of Health & Safety for the protection of both LL and tenant.. but who am I to say? :confused:

must dig out my Miss Marple hat ....



Very few CORGI heating engineers are formally qualified to carry out electrical work so compliance means employing an electrician to connect up the boiler if installed in the kitchen.

pippay
27-05-2007, 16:35 PM
The consequences don't bear thinking about if it's that easy to get .... and especially if never had any experience before ...

I can understand his motives but would this mean that if there was a problem with his own property and the tenant disagreed with his findings the courts would back him just because he has a Corgi and Part P registration (the latter being just after a week's course) ?

I would have thought it would be a conflict of interests ......

Anyone can be make a mistake and be wrong especially if they don't have longevity of experience behind them.



Presumably this explains why my next door neighbour who has just retired but intends to spenfd the next few years in the property business, has just obtained his Corgi registration certificate and is spending this week doing a course at the local tech to enable him to do "part p" work!

P.P.

Ericthelobster
27-05-2007, 22:35 PM
It was installed in the kitchen; to an existing very old electrical installation and wiring with no RCD protected circuit.Worth pointing out that it's not normally recommended that a a fixed appliance like a boiler is installed on an RCD-protected circuit anyway! Modern consumer units (ie fuse boxes) tend to be split between RCD and non-RCD protected circuits.... you don't want things like a freezer or a boiler (which provides frost protection in the winter) to be on an RCD, where they are susceptible to being switched off by 'nuisance' trips.

baldelectrician
28-05-2007, 22:23 PM
Any electrical work should be certified.

Connect a boiler - minor works certificate

new shower circuit - electrical installation certificate.

So if you get a gas firm in to connect a boiler ask if they do electrical work to BS7671 (wiring regs). If they answer yes then you should get a certificate.

Any firm doing electrial work should issue paperwork. from changing a cracked socket to a new light in the bathroom.

you wouldn't get a gas hob replaced and not expect a corgi cert?

Bel
29-05-2007, 10:12 AM
So if you get a gas firm in to connect a boiler ask if they do electrical work to BS7671 (wiring regs). If they answer yes then you should get a certificate.





For the sake of clarity, what if the answer is no they don't?

jeffrey
29-05-2007, 10:48 AM
For the sake of clarity, what if the answer is no they don't?

Answers:
A. Get proper electrician.
B. Burn to death in horrible fire.
Please select one.

baldelectrician
29-05-2007, 14:29 PM
if you get electrical work done it should be carried out to BS7671 (your insurance will probably specify this - they may specify a registered contractor be used - such as NICEIC)

it's much the same for gas