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charles10
18-05-2007, 21:30 PM
Hi Folks,

We have recently had change of Landlord.
On the new rent invoice we have just received from a managing agent acting for them[Landlord] they give an address for "service of any notices" in Jersey.

When the new owners bought the building it says that they are based in Gibralta.

My question to you is : Does Jersey come under England and Wales law ???

l have read the Landlord and tenant act 1987 which clearly states the Landlord must provide an address in England or Wales at which the Notices (and proceedings) may be served upon the landlord if thir address is outside of England and Wales.

Gibralta and jersey to me clearly are outside of England and Wales, but is there some legal way this landlord is doing things correctly ???

some loop hole or something ? whereby those 2 places Landlords can register their ownerships of properties in Engalnd and Wales at.

Cheers

Charles

Bel
19-05-2007, 15:17 PM
Yes they must give you an address for service in England or Wales. Officially no rent is due until they do. They must give you a 'section 48' notice.

charles10
19-05-2007, 16:52 PM
Thank you Bel,

It seems odd though because the new rent invoice actually mentions S47and 48 at the top of the invoice and then directly below it is the jersey address for service of any notices it says.

Surely they must realise this mistake, thats why l was saying is jersey regarded as part of English and Welsh law.

Just seems odd because they are also using one of the biggest managing agents in the UK.

Charles.

jeffrey
20-05-2007, 12:09 PM
Thank you Bel,

It seems odd though because the new rent invoice actually mentions S47and 48 at the top of the invoice and then directly below it is the jersey address for service of any notices it says.

Surely they must realise this mistake, thats why l was saying is jersey regarded as part of English and Welsh law.

Just seems odd because they are also using one of the biggest managing agents in the UK.

Charles.

Bel is correct. Jersey is a dominion of The Queen but not part of the UK; Gibraltar is a colony and also not part of UK (although bizarrely part of SW England for purposes of EU election voting); neither is in England and Wales for LTA purposes; so the Notices are invalid.

charles10
20-05-2007, 15:04 PM
Thank you Jeff and Bel for info.

Charles.

charles10
20-05-2007, 16:10 PM
l would like to ask another question please:

l am unclear as to what we should do next with regards to paying/not paying the rent.

1. What do we have to gain be possible alieanating the new Landlords by bringing up this issue of section S47,48 ???

2. we were thinking of writing to new Landlord and stating that we are aware that they have a registered address for service outside of England and Wales but as a good will gesture are willing to pay the rent providing they then provide us with an address within England and Wales.

3. would this effect our rights in any negative way by doing the above{2} ???

4. Or should we refuse to pay the rent on the basis of them breaking this act ???

l know the act is there to protect us should we ever want to serve notices on the Landlords, but at the moment we would like to get off to a friendly start with them.

If you Bel or Jeff have any others views or opinions on how we might best tackle this issue l would be very greatful for your views once again

Charles.

J4L
20-05-2007, 16:33 PM
l would like to ask another question please:

l am unclear as to what we should do next with regards to paying/not paying the rent.

1. What do we have to gain be possible alieanating the new Landlords by bringing up this issue of section S47,48 ???

2. we were thinking of writing to new Landlord and stating that we are aware that they have a registered address for service outside of England and Wales but as a good will gesture are willing to pay the rent providing they then provide us with an address within England and Wales.

3. would this effect our rights in any negative way by doing the above{2} ???

4. Or should we refuse to pay the rent on the basis of them breaking this act ???

l know the act is there to protect us should we ever want to serve notices on the Landlords, but at the moment we would like to get off to a friendly start with them.

If you Bel or Jeff have any others views or opinions on how we might best tackle this issue l would be very greatful for your views once again

Charles.

Hi Charles,
Until section 48 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987 is complied with rent is not lawfully due, however if you are trying to 'get off on to a friendly start', as you say, surely this could possibly harm your future relationship somewhat.
Remember that this address does not have to be that of the landlord.
Maybe your 1st port of call should be to the agent and mention that you are aware that the address should be one in the UK and it is not, and could they amend the documents. I wouldn't REFUSE to pay the rent but make the agent aware that it is a legal requirement and you would PREFER to hold onto the rent until the paperwork is put in order.

charles10
20-05-2007, 19:06 PM
sorry another question.

if no rent is due unless there is an address in England or Wales, does this mean we will never be liable for the rent until such time as they provide such an address??? ... or will the whole amount become due once they have provided one???.

Charles

J4L
20-05-2007, 19:25 PM
sorry another question.

if no rent is due unless there is an address in England or Wales, does this mean we will never be liable for the rent until such time as they provide such an address??? ... or will the whole amount become due once they have provided one???.

Charles

Not totally sure about this one but I'm guessing that all the rent will be due as according to your initial AST.

jeffrey
21-05-2007, 09:02 AM
charles10: section 48(2) states that, where L fails to comply with s.48(1), rent is treated as not due before L complies. Once L complies, all rent to date becomes due.

charles10
21-05-2007, 09:20 AM
Hi Jeff,

Would that be "all rent to date due" including the period of when they had just provided a jersey address which is outside of England and Wales ????

So they bassically can break the law and still get rent for that period ?

Is that what your saying ?

sounds like this all comes down to the meaning of the word "Due"

Thanks

Charles

jeffrey
21-05-2007, 10:11 AM
Hi Jeff,

Would that be "all rent to date due" including the period of when they had just provided a jersey address which is outside of England and Wales ????

So they bassically can break the law and still get rent for that period ?

Is that what your saying ?

sounds like this all comes down to the meaning of the word "Due"

Thanks

Charles

L cannot get rent at all, for the intervening period, as things stand at present.
If and when L provides address in E&W, he can then lawfully demand all rent from the intervening period and henceforth.

charles10
21-05-2007, 10:49 AM
Hi Jeff,

So bassically we don't have that much to gain by withholding the rent, because from what your saying l think the LL would eventually get an England and Wales address for service if he wants his money.

We'd be just holding onto all past rent owed to him till he got his act together.

By the way we are protected tenants, so we can't be told to leave, but if nothing for us to gain finnacially in the long run l suppose best option is to pay the rent now asking the agents to make sure the Landlord provides us with an English or Welsh address soon.

Or we can maybe pee off the new landlords and managing agents by withholding the rent until such time they do sort out an English address for service, and would gain nothing from it apart from annoying new owners right????

cheers.

J4L
22-05-2007, 06:32 AM
Hi Jeff,

So bassically we don't have that much to gain by withholding the rent, because from what your saying l think the LL would eventually get an England and Wales address for service if he wants his money.

We'd be just holding onto all past rent owed to him till he got his act together.

By the way we are protected tenants, so we can't be told to leave, but if nothing for us to gain finnacially in the long run l suppose best option is to pay the rent now asking the agents to make sure the Landlord provides us with an English or Welsh address soon.

Or we can maybe pee off the new landlords and managing agents by withholding the rent until such time they do sort out an English address for service, and would gain nothing from it apart from annoying new owners right????

cheers.

You would gain interest on the monies and make the agent and landlord act qiucker in their responsibilities.
yes it may pee them off slightly but at least you are covering yourself should you actually need to serve any notices on THEM.

PaulF
22-05-2007, 17:04 PM
Just read all these posts! What a carry-on.

Who could think Jersey is in 'England & Wales'? Is Edinburgh in the Scilly Isles?

You do not go asking the landlord to serve the correct Notice on you - it is up to the landlord (or the agent) to know the law! When you eventually receive the S.47 and or S.48 Notice you are then lawfully obliged to pay the rent up to date, but the landlord is not entitled to any interest on the "arrears". Put the rent into an interest bearing account and tell the agent you will pay the rent when lawfully required to do so - leave it at that.

Jersey is part of the British Isles!

One last point - what do you mean when you refer to yourself as "protected tenants"?

J4L
22-05-2007, 18:35 PM
You do not go asking the landlord to serve the correct Notice on you - it is up to the landlord (or the agent) to know the law! I think the OP was more worried about buiding bridges with the Landlord, I think that's a GOOD thing in my opinion.
When you eventually receive the S.47 and or S.48 Notice you are then lawfully obliged to pay the rent up to date, but the landlord is not entitled to any interest on the "arrears".
Put the rent into an interest bearing account and tell the agent you will pay the rent when lawfully required to do so - leave it at that. Didn't I just say THAT?




Just read all these posts!- Dunno if you actually DID!!!

charles10
24-05-2007, 13:16 PM
hello,

We are rent act tenants by the way.

We have written to new owners stating our concerns that the address for service is not in Englnad and Wales.
The managing agent l spoke to on the phone today stated that the Landlords company was yes in Jersey but that the company was a "LP" "Limited partnership" and that the rent was still due.

Obviuosly he may as well be speaking in French to me, as l have no idea what he means by "limited partnership.

All we know that the address for service on the rent invoice states the name of the company{landlord} and then Jersey in brackets with the capital letters "LP" afterwards.

Now we know what the LP stands for but is the agent waffling to us or is he stating some correct legal fact.

l have taken all your stuff in here Folks, and by the sounds of things l'm thinking maybe the agent is incorrect again.

As l said also before, this managing agents is not only big in the UK but also around the world.
l think though they can still make basic mistakes though , right ?

Cheers Charles.

J4L
24-05-2007, 13:29 PM
I'm almost positive that regardless of the status of the company it still has to be an UK address.

pippay
24-05-2007, 13:59 PM
I agree with you .. the Act does not say a LL must supply and address in England or Wales EXCEPT if it's a limited partnership ( or any other legal entity for that matter ) so on that basis all LL's are governed by the Act.. otherwise everyone would be setting up as Limited Partnerships and dodging all the relevant legislation applicable to UK Landlords, wouldn't they ?


And as a point of reference for Paul_f .. Jersey is not even a part of the British Isles per se (let alone England or Wales!) .. it's a dominion, if I remember correctly, with its own government. The only reference they have to the UK is that the UK deals with it's defence and representation in international matters.


I'm almost positive that regardless of the status of the company it still has to be an UK address.