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Energise
13-07-2005, 17:39 PM
If one party of a joint and several AST (4 tenants) leaves at the end of the fixed period (without giving notice).

Would the other 3 just move onto a periodic tenancy?
Would the departed tenant then have any liabilities?
Would the AST be deceased as when 1 party of a joint and several AST gives notice to quit?

PaulF
14-07-2005, 09:19 AM
I have to put something outside the "quote" or else it won't post my reply.


If one party of a joint and several AST (4 tenants) leaves at the end of the fixed period (without giving notice).

Would the other 3 just move onto a periodic tenancy? Yes if you want it to but see answer to your third question!
Would the departed tenant then have any liabilities? Yes! The same as before.
Would the AST be deceased as when 1 party of a joint and several AST gives notice to quit? Yes! - If one tenant gives notice then it automatically terminates the whole agreement when the notice is effective, so it really answers the other two questions, doesn't it?

Energise
14-07-2005, 09:54 AM
Thanks for your response Paul.

Just to clarify,

re; question 2, as I understand it at the end of a fixed tenancy a tenant can just depart without having to give notice and have no further liabilities,but in this instance of a joint tenancy that does not apply.

lawstudent
14-07-2005, 10:45 AM
Paul f - your answer to the third question seems inconsistent with your answer to the first - please clarify.

PaulF
14-07-2005, 21:44 PM
The poster asked if the tenant left without giving notice on Q1 would it alter things and the answer is no as the tenancy would become periodic on a joint and several liability basis! In Q3 he asks if a new tenancy needs to be created if one of three tenants were to give formal notice of termination as that action automatically ends an AST. I thought it was quite clear the first time.

lawstudent
15-07-2005, 06:57 AM
The poster asked if the tenant left without giving notice on Q1 would it alter things and the answer is no as the tenancy would become periodic on a joint and several liability basis! In Q3 he asks if a new tenancy needs to be created if one of three tenants were to give formal notice of termination as that action automatically ends an AST. I thought it was quite clear the first time.That is not what he asks in Q3 (although perhaps it is what he meant to ask). What he actually asks is "Would the AST be deceased as when 1 party of a joint and several AST gives notice to quit?" which I take to mean "Would the AST agreement then cease to apply as it would if one party gave notice .." But maybe I am misunderstanding the question.

Energise
15-07-2005, 08:42 AM
Yes lawstudent your interpretation of Q3 is what I was asking, apologies if that was not clear.

What I don't quite understand is how the tenant departing at the end of the fixed tenancy can have any further liability as he is only signed up for the fixed period, this liability is being created by the other tenants actions of taking it into a periodic tenancy.

lawstudent
17-07-2005, 06:47 AM
Energise - your question raises an interesting point. Even though the departing tenant only signed up to the fixed period he also signed up to being liable for anything that might happen under a tenancy agreement which can continue in force after his departure. It might seem unfair that he is liable when it was the others who stayed on, but I suppose it is no more unfair than his being liable when it was the others who set fire to the mattress. For as long as the agreement remains in force (for whaever reason) no joint tenant can escape liability. It is therefore in the interests of a departing tenant to terminate the agreement by notice to the landlord and to his joint tenants.

PaulF
18-07-2005, 13:45 PM
Know what you mean, but the tenants would only be able to walk-away from the fixed term without it going into periodic is that if all three left and surrendered their keys on the last day; in the event of one tenant leaving without notice then that tenant would be liable for the rent (to the two remaining tenants, not the landlord) until a replacement tenant could be found whereupon a new AST would have to be created.

The existing tenants would want to mitigate their loss and could do one of several things, but of course it could jeopardise their continued occupation if they were to give notice and the landord accept it without the offer of a new tenancy. I won't go into the options as I'm sure you all know what the possibilities are.

lawstudent
18-07-2005, 18:29 PM
Is the girlfriend of a tenant who goes home to Paris known as the "French left tenant's woman"?

PaulF
18-07-2005, 19:50 PM
Your talents are wasted methinks!

Energise
20-07-2005, 16:17 PM
Thanks for your input gents, I have just found this on the painsmith website (link posted by Jayne) about this and it seems to say the opposite.

"At the end of a fixed term if one Tenant wishes to stay, but the other Tenant wants to leave, then the Tenant who leaves has no further obligations to the Landlord. Effectively a new tenancy is created with the remaining Tenant. A tenant does not have to give notice to leave at the end of the fixed term. If the tenancy agreement tries to enforce such an obligation it is likely to be unfair and therefore void."

mjpl
21-07-2005, 08:36 AM
I thinks Painsmiths view is a little acute.

As you say the tenant does not have to give notice to vacate the property at the termination of the fixed term. However, how can we refer to the tenant as an individual in a shared tenancy. The law makes no such differentiation.

What if the vacating tenant decided to move back into the property at a later stage. As no steps have been taken to terminate his tenancy other than to accept his moving out, the tenant could move back into the property with all the rights due to him.

In these instances we suggest that you make use of mutual agreement. Clearly it is not backed by statute but normally an agreement made between tenant and Landlord is stuck to.

I notice from other threads that Paul F is an agent? apologies if I am wrong. He will no very well the dangers of accepting at face value the explanations provided by solicitors or governing bodies such as ARLA. Often what is presented as fact may just be an opinion!