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tahmur
09-05-2007, 15:43 PM
The last tenancy agreement I had with my tenant for 6 months commenced on 7 December 2005 and ended on 6 June 2006, after which point it became a periodic tenancy.

I issued a s21(4) notice stating that I require possession:

"On expiry of the last day of your periodic tenancy period falling on 6 April 2007"

That judge has now set a court hearing date stating she is not satisfied that the wording complies with s21(4).

What is she getting at - I was convinced my dates were correct.

Please help!

jeffrey
09-05-2007, 15:53 PM
1. First, on what date did you serve it? I hope that it was before 6 February 2007, or else it will not have given a long enough notice period.
2. Second, your wording might be seen as conflating two separate bits.
Better would have been, "on 6 April 2007 or on the expiry of the periodic tenancy period first ending more than two months from the date of service of this Notice on you".

davidjohnbutton
09-05-2007, 15:58 PM
Possibly that the notice does not have this required wording "ON the expiry of this notice by virtue of Section 21(4) of the Housing Act 1988.
This notice expires AFTER: _______ ______________ or the last day of a period of the tenancy next occurring.
"

You see a periodic tenancy runs month to month and the correct date to put is the last date of the period - i.e. on a monthly tenancy that runs each month from the 2nd, the last day of the period would be the 1st and whilst you have got the date right, the notice seemingly does not comply with the exact wording required for that notice.

I am afraid that if this is the case, you will have your case dismissed without costs and have to start all over again by giving the correct notice AFTER the court case and then waiting two months again. If you try to correct it now by issuing a correct notice, it will over-ride the notice you have already given and the judge will still throw the case out on the basis that your new notice is the one you intend to rely on.

attilathelandlord
09-05-2007, 16:00 PM
Wrong, your wording should have stated "after the 6th April 2007" as the tenant gets up until midnight of the last day of the tenancy. You have ended the the S21 on the wrong date therefore.

The second part of Jeffrey's dating would have helped: "or on the expiry of the periodic tenancy period first ending more than two months from the date of service of this Notice on you".

tahmur
09-05-2007, 16:07 PM
The exact wording was:

I give you notice that (pursuant to S21(4)a of the Housing Act 1988, as amended) I require possession of: (address) On expiry of the last day of your periodic tenancy falling on 6 April 2007.

I am saying I need it after 6 April by saying on expiry of.

I got this notice from this website:

http://www.residentiallandlord.co.uk/landlordforms.htm

attilathelandlord
09-05-2007, 16:09 PM
Just check then at the hearing that the judge doesn't think that you are trying to get possession on the 6th rather than after.

jeffrey
09-05-2007, 16:16 PM
The exact wording was:

I give you notice that (pursuant to S21(4)a of the Housing Act 1988, as amended) I require possession of: (address) On expiry of the last day of your periodic tenancy falling on 6 April 2007.

I am saying I need it after 6 April by saying on expiry of.

I got this notice from this website:

http://www.residentiallandlord.co.uk/landlordforms.htm

But your wording might still not be OK. The "periodic tenancy" can't fall on 6 April. What I guess you meant was:
a. after expiry of the periodic tenancy ending on 6 April; or
b. on 6 April after the expiry of the then-ending periodic tenancy.

taheemr
09-05-2007, 16:26 PM
Dear all,

Seeing that we are on the subject of dates can someone please comment on my case too,

I have issued a s21 under clause 21 (1)b, note that the s21 was issued on the 18th Dec 06, expiring on the 20th Feb 07, thus giving over 2 months notice. (it was issued during the AST and expired after the AST not before).

My concern after reading the comments is that my wording goes

Date of service - 18th Dec 06
Date of expiry of this notice 20th Feb 07

It does not include to expire, on or after - will this be an issue ??
Surley by virtue of the fact that it expires after 2 clear months should be ok, should it not ??

Thanks you in advance.

jeffrey
09-05-2007, 16:37 PM
You should be all right.
The coinciding of Notice expiry and tenancy period expiry applies only if service is under s.21(4)(a), after fixed term expires.
You served under s.21(1)(b), during fixed term, so a simple two-month notice period is OK.

taheemr
09-05-2007, 16:39 PM
Cheers Jeff,

You may recall that I sent you the form for vetting some months ago.

Best Regards

tahmur
10-05-2007, 07:28 AM
Does anyone think my chances at hearing will be better if I get a Lawyer to represent me?

Esio Trot
10-05-2007, 08:26 AM
Tahmur,

I don't think you have answered Jeffrey's question:


1. First, on what date did you serve it? I hope that it was before 6 February 2007, or else it will not have given a long enough notice period.

So, what date was it served, and how did you serve it. (If you are not sure of the term "serve", give dates of when it was issued/posted/handed to the tenant.

Your answer to this will affect whether you might benefit from a lawyer, or are on a lost cause.

Shame you didn't post a few days ago, as you could have issued another s21 to expire on 6 July - in case your court action fails.

tahmur
10-05-2007, 08:38 AM
The notice was dated and posted 17 January 2007, so well in the time.

Just to reconfirm, there are two lines in my notice:

1) I give you notive that (pursuant to s21(4)a of the Housing Act 1988, as amended) I require possession of: (address).

2) On expiry of the last day of your periodic tenancy falling on 6 April 2007.

So I am clearly saying that I need possession after 6 April 2007.

I just don't understand why the judge has called a hearing.

tahmur
13-05-2007, 09:11 AM
Just got the court hearing letter in the post.

It has given me a date and time for a 15 minute hearing.

It states:

The court is not satisfied that the wording 'on expiry' of the last date of your periodic tenancy period falling on 6 April 2007 complies with Section 21 (4).

It seems the judge is saying that if I used 'After' instead of 'on expiry of', he would have allowed it.

2 questions?

1) In the English language 'After 6 April' and 'On expiry of 6 April' clearly mean the same thing. Is this an argument I will be able to use? Is there any case law which anyone knows about which shows that if you use different words to mean the same thing the notice should still be valid?

2) Since the court has not rejected the claim but said 'not satisfied', does that mean I still have a chance of convincing him based on my argument in 1?

Many thanks.

tahmur
14-05-2007, 08:03 AM
Any Lawyers got any thoughts on this?

Any help will be very much appreciated.