akosa
03-04-2007, 15:10 PM
This is my first post. forgive me if I have posted it to the wrong category.
I need some guidance to a problem and I hope I have logged this under the correct category. Apologies if I have not.
Five of us have lived in our family house since 1979. Three years ago my father (aged 67) persuaded my sister and I and my mother to buy the house under the council RTB scheme. Although reluctant due to my father’s poor track record in paying bills and both my parents being retired we reluctantly decided to buy the house after my mother persuaded us to. My father agreed and convinced us we would all pay the mortgage. My sister and I dropped our plans to purchase our own house to purchase the family one.
We have never bought a house before and my father controlled and dealt with all the paper work through his solicitors whilst we spent time arranging a mortgage. He brought the deeds and we signed it however because we have a sister who has for the last 16 years refused to work or contribute financially in the house we only agreed to finally sign the RTB if her name was not included on the deeds as we believed she would never pay a penny to help. Three years later this is true as our sister has never paid a penny to contribute to the housekeeping of family finances. Basically she lives in the property rent free, expenses free and housework free. Unfortunately, 2 months after we completed on our RTB in 2003 our mother died on 20th Nov 2003.
We bought the house (£197) on 15th Sept 2003 paying equal deposits of 6k each (my father, mother and my sister and I. Taking on a mortgage of £172K We were all under the assumption that we were purchasing as Joint Tenants. This was fine for us as we knew we would probably be paying all of the mortgage payments each month.
For the past 3 years from the point of completion on the house my sister and I have paid all the mortgage payments, buildings insurance, contents insurance, water bills, food bills, maintenance bills, gas contract bills, community charge. It has been very difficult with both of us paying the finances supporting four people but because we care about him as our father we have continued.
In Sept 2006 the 3year clause on the RTB expired and at the same time our mortgage deal ended. We had to re-mortgage so we could secure a lower rate having missed out during Novembers rate rise. This re-mortgaging process has been hell. As soon as the re-mortgage process was in play my father made a request for £70k worth of equity in the house, we explained we could only release 15K due to our wages and to enable us to still manage the rest of the house expenses. He agreed to this, then a few weeks made a request for 50K we explained why we couldn’t afford it.
Because we can’t afford such a big re-mortgage he has threatened us with court action as he says he will force the sale. We have tried to explain that we didn’t want to sell the house as historically it is our family house with so many ties and it would be very difficult to find a 4 bed house in London with such a small mortgage and that he would also have no place to live. He is adamant he wants the cash.
1- My question is can he just force us to sell through a court order. We have kept all the payments up on the house and have never defaulted on any payments.
2- Does the fact that he has not paid 1 penny in mortgage contribution have any bearing on forcing us to sell the property?
3- Do there have to be valid reasons for an owner to force the sale of a property via a court order?
We have tried to offer him some money 50K+ and a share of any monies if any of the rooms are rented and a clause share of any money should we decide to sell. But he says he doesn’t want that. In going to the building society to try to see if we could raise more money for him we found from the land registry that our deeds have been registered as Tenants in common which was a surprise to all of us as we had all assumed we had joint ownership. We do not recall signing any forms or having any discussion with the solicitor, which would have led to the Tenancy being Tenancy in Common.
In addition we also found that all of our names have been registered on the mortgage, so we are all jointly responsible, even though my father does not have an income.
4- My 4th question is it normal for a Tenancy Title deed to be decided as Tenants in Common by the solicitor with no Declarations of Trust” document available?
5 -Since my father has found that the Tenancy is registered as “Tenants in common” he has now stated that because my mother died her share of the property is rightfully his so he is now a 50% share owner and can force the sale. My mother did not leave a will.
He also states that if we don’t want him to force the sale we can buy him out as he states that is want he wants. However, he states that he now wants to be bought out at the market value of the property. He went and had a private valuation from the Estate agent on the property and a valuation from the Estate agent he says is £600k. So he says he wants his equity of the market value of £600k. We can not believe it. We have tried explaining that we have been paying over £40K in mortgage payments and bills since 2003 and that he like us only put in 6K and that asking for what is effectively 300K would kill us. We have asked him to reconsider a lower realistic rate, but he has changed and says that is why he expects. The irony is that when he gets his money he will expect to come and stay with one of us. He also added that is his 50% which he will take and that he would want our sister (the one who has never paid a penny and who we support) to be given an equal amount by us. We said that is as he was claiming my mothers 25% share as all his then he would need to consider offering her some money out of that £300k which he wants. He was disappointed with this and is adamant that we should pay her some money.
The current mortgage on the property is £172k. We have paid interest payments of roughly £40k since we took on the interest mortgage. Our current rate on the mortgage is 7.0% as my father refuses to allow us to re-mortgage for a lower rate still till he gets his money or where we are forced into a position where we cannot afford the repayments and have to sell.
My questions are:
6- Considering all the facts can he ask for this i.e. to be bought out for £300k at market value claiming my mums share?
7- Would we be responsible for paying additional money to our sister?
8- If we had to give him £300k to buy him out and remove his name from the title deeds would we be liable for stamp duty or would it be him?
If we were liable for stamp duty would it be on £300k or the £150K (being the portion which was our mother’s share)?
9- If we were able to buy him out would it be better for us to be joint tenants or Tenants in common, from this I am asking would we have to pay additional tax to change the Tenancy type.
10- Is it because it was a RTB property that it would have been registered as ‘Tenants in Common’?
11- Would it have made any difference if our deeds were “Joint Tenancy”?
12- Who would pay the legal conveyencing costs would it be him or us since he wants to be bought out?
13- Although my sister and I have been left to pay the mortgage would my father be also responsible since his name is on the mortgage? And if he wants to be bought out at 50% would he not have to minus his share of the existing mortgage £86k from the £300k he wants?
14- In addition would he not have to give us some money in terms of the consideration that for my sister and I paying over £40k in mortgage payments?
What law would this come under property law, land law or family law?
I appreciate that I have a lot of questions but I’m just seeking an idea to what we are to be faced with and the type of law this all comes under so we can seek an appropriate Solicitor.
All answers would be fully appreciated.
Kindest regards
Akosa
I need some guidance to a problem and I hope I have logged this under the correct category. Apologies if I have not.
Five of us have lived in our family house since 1979. Three years ago my father (aged 67) persuaded my sister and I and my mother to buy the house under the council RTB scheme. Although reluctant due to my father’s poor track record in paying bills and both my parents being retired we reluctantly decided to buy the house after my mother persuaded us to. My father agreed and convinced us we would all pay the mortgage. My sister and I dropped our plans to purchase our own house to purchase the family one.
We have never bought a house before and my father controlled and dealt with all the paper work through his solicitors whilst we spent time arranging a mortgage. He brought the deeds and we signed it however because we have a sister who has for the last 16 years refused to work or contribute financially in the house we only agreed to finally sign the RTB if her name was not included on the deeds as we believed she would never pay a penny to help. Three years later this is true as our sister has never paid a penny to contribute to the housekeeping of family finances. Basically she lives in the property rent free, expenses free and housework free. Unfortunately, 2 months after we completed on our RTB in 2003 our mother died on 20th Nov 2003.
We bought the house (£197) on 15th Sept 2003 paying equal deposits of 6k each (my father, mother and my sister and I. Taking on a mortgage of £172K We were all under the assumption that we were purchasing as Joint Tenants. This was fine for us as we knew we would probably be paying all of the mortgage payments each month.
For the past 3 years from the point of completion on the house my sister and I have paid all the mortgage payments, buildings insurance, contents insurance, water bills, food bills, maintenance bills, gas contract bills, community charge. It has been very difficult with both of us paying the finances supporting four people but because we care about him as our father we have continued.
In Sept 2006 the 3year clause on the RTB expired and at the same time our mortgage deal ended. We had to re-mortgage so we could secure a lower rate having missed out during Novembers rate rise. This re-mortgaging process has been hell. As soon as the re-mortgage process was in play my father made a request for £70k worth of equity in the house, we explained we could only release 15K due to our wages and to enable us to still manage the rest of the house expenses. He agreed to this, then a few weeks made a request for 50K we explained why we couldn’t afford it.
Because we can’t afford such a big re-mortgage he has threatened us with court action as he says he will force the sale. We have tried to explain that we didn’t want to sell the house as historically it is our family house with so many ties and it would be very difficult to find a 4 bed house in London with such a small mortgage and that he would also have no place to live. He is adamant he wants the cash.
1- My question is can he just force us to sell through a court order. We have kept all the payments up on the house and have never defaulted on any payments.
2- Does the fact that he has not paid 1 penny in mortgage contribution have any bearing on forcing us to sell the property?
3- Do there have to be valid reasons for an owner to force the sale of a property via a court order?
We have tried to offer him some money 50K+ and a share of any monies if any of the rooms are rented and a clause share of any money should we decide to sell. But he says he doesn’t want that. In going to the building society to try to see if we could raise more money for him we found from the land registry that our deeds have been registered as Tenants in common which was a surprise to all of us as we had all assumed we had joint ownership. We do not recall signing any forms or having any discussion with the solicitor, which would have led to the Tenancy being Tenancy in Common.
In addition we also found that all of our names have been registered on the mortgage, so we are all jointly responsible, even though my father does not have an income.
4- My 4th question is it normal for a Tenancy Title deed to be decided as Tenants in Common by the solicitor with no Declarations of Trust” document available?
5 -Since my father has found that the Tenancy is registered as “Tenants in common” he has now stated that because my mother died her share of the property is rightfully his so he is now a 50% share owner and can force the sale. My mother did not leave a will.
He also states that if we don’t want him to force the sale we can buy him out as he states that is want he wants. However, he states that he now wants to be bought out at the market value of the property. He went and had a private valuation from the Estate agent on the property and a valuation from the Estate agent he says is £600k. So he says he wants his equity of the market value of £600k. We can not believe it. We have tried explaining that we have been paying over £40K in mortgage payments and bills since 2003 and that he like us only put in 6K and that asking for what is effectively 300K would kill us. We have asked him to reconsider a lower realistic rate, but he has changed and says that is why he expects. The irony is that when he gets his money he will expect to come and stay with one of us. He also added that is his 50% which he will take and that he would want our sister (the one who has never paid a penny and who we support) to be given an equal amount by us. We said that is as he was claiming my mothers 25% share as all his then he would need to consider offering her some money out of that £300k which he wants. He was disappointed with this and is adamant that we should pay her some money.
The current mortgage on the property is £172k. We have paid interest payments of roughly £40k since we took on the interest mortgage. Our current rate on the mortgage is 7.0% as my father refuses to allow us to re-mortgage for a lower rate still till he gets his money or where we are forced into a position where we cannot afford the repayments and have to sell.
My questions are:
6- Considering all the facts can he ask for this i.e. to be bought out for £300k at market value claiming my mums share?
7- Would we be responsible for paying additional money to our sister?
8- If we had to give him £300k to buy him out and remove his name from the title deeds would we be liable for stamp duty or would it be him?
If we were liable for stamp duty would it be on £300k or the £150K (being the portion which was our mother’s share)?
9- If we were able to buy him out would it be better for us to be joint tenants or Tenants in common, from this I am asking would we have to pay additional tax to change the Tenancy type.
10- Is it because it was a RTB property that it would have been registered as ‘Tenants in Common’?
11- Would it have made any difference if our deeds were “Joint Tenancy”?
12- Who would pay the legal conveyencing costs would it be him or us since he wants to be bought out?
13- Although my sister and I have been left to pay the mortgage would my father be also responsible since his name is on the mortgage? And if he wants to be bought out at 50% would he not have to minus his share of the existing mortgage £86k from the £300k he wants?
14- In addition would he not have to give us some money in terms of the consideration that for my sister and I paying over £40k in mortgage payments?
What law would this come under property law, land law or family law?
I appreciate that I have a lot of questions but I’m just seeking an idea to what we are to be faced with and the type of law this all comes under so we can seek an appropriate Solicitor.
All answers would be fully appreciated.
Kindest regards
Akosa