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plumberman
22-06-2005, 08:59 AM
Hi everyone,I live in a 5 bed house in Manchester with 4 other tenants on a AST. We were told by our landlord to inform him if we were leaving on the 31 May (the contract terminates on the 31 July). 3 people are staying in the house (1 has actually just moved in in place of another) and 2 are leaving of which i am one. One of my house mates moved out last week and someone came in to take her place but not on an AST until the landlord has a set of new tenants commencing 31 july.

We were told that people were coming to look at the house a week ago. I believe the house was in a resonable state and the guy showing her around did not say anything about the state at the time.

We then recieved a very curt letter from the landlord telling us to clear the house as it was a complete mess (which it wasnt), and to tidy the garden (saying that if we dont he will get gardeners and cleaners in before the tenancy agreement finishes to smarten the place up which will cost us "hundreds of pounds" so that he can show prospective tenants round). He also wants to come round and look at the property.

The letter told everyone to make their rooms spotless including tidying up all clothes and folding them neatly. He even had the audacity to tell one of my housemates who is staying in the house to tidy his room as he will be showing new housemates his room and that he doesnt want new tenants getting the wrong impression of him as he has an untidy room.

My main question is can he do this? We are all professionals in the house and realise that he has to find new tenants which we can fully appreciate and i am quite willing to help him in his quest for tenants, however this letter has really put my back up.

When the LL son showed someone round we were given 4 hrs notice whilst we were at work. Obviousy not enough time to clean the house.
Does he have a right to tell the tenant who is staying to tidy his room as it will not be vacant and can he charge us to clean the house before the AST ends?
I weeded the patio last night in 10 mins and i cant beleive that any amount of cleaning will cost "hundreds of pounds". It seems that hes gone completely overboard.

My last question is that we didnt sign an inventory and judging by his letter, it would appear that it is going to be very hard to get any money back from our deposit. I can quite safely say that the house has not delapidated anyway. Can he withholod our deposit for any reason if we didnt sign an inventory?

Again I am more that happy to keep the house in a clean state but any help on the above questions would be appreciated

Thanks

MrWoof
22-06-2005, 11:51 AM
Except in an emergency, your landlord cannot enter the property without your permission although this permission may be given by any of the signatories to the AST. Equally, he cannot tell you how to live your life, tidy??? thats a matter of opinion, ever had a white glove inspection? THAT's clean and tidy! As for 4 hours notice that he is showing someone round, NO, 24 hours notice for essential maintenance and thats it, he has no rights to enter to show someone round. Put 'Protection from Eviction' into the search facility and be enlightened.
No inventory? He'll have a hard time justifying any deductions in court. You are responsible for any damage but normal wear and tear is his responsibility. In addition to this, your AST may be up on the 31st July but unless he has served a section 21 notice, you have no obligation to leave. You say that there were five of you on the original AST, only the first four were responsible for any problems, the rest, and any others, are licensed occupiers. Write to him with the results of your search and tell him that any deductions from your deposit, if you don't agree them, will result in court action.

plumberman
22-06-2005, 12:42 PM
Can you advise me on the fact that he wants to get cleaners and gardeners in before we leave the house in abid to secure a tenant to move in in place of us before we leave.

He suggested that it would cost 100's - im not sure why though. Its a complete over reaction to a house he hasnt been to in over a year.

Also you mention he has to give "24 hours notice for essential maintenance and thats it, he has no rights to enter to show someone round." Do you mean he has no rights whatsoever to show anyone round?

He hasnt sent us a section 21, just a letter requiring us to give him 2 months notice if we want to stay or go on July 31.



Many Thanks again.

MrWoof
22-06-2005, 15:04 PM
To paraphrase one of the most knowledgeable contributors to this forum, 'you seem to have a landlord with no knowledge of the law'. The landlord has NO right of entry into the property without the tenant's permission. At least 24 hours notice must be given even for essential maintenance which if not done would cause damage to the property unless it is an emergency and how often does that happen? The relevant acts of parliament are: Protection from Eviction Act 1985 and Landlord and Tenant Act 1977 (Thanks Paul F for that info from another thread). Also, the landlord has already indicated his desire to repossess the property so once the AST term is up you do not need to give any notice. If he wants you out though, he must give you at least two month's notice on a valid Section 21. The only costs you would be liable for are court and bailiffs fees if you stay on beyond the final date given on the S21.

nme
22-06-2005, 20:03 PM
contact the Tenancy Relations Officers at Manchester City Council, who investigate and prosecute offences under the protection from eviction act, it may require nothing more than a word in your in your landlords ear to put an end to the problems you are currently facing.

Ericthelobster
23-06-2005, 19:45 PM
The landlord has NO right of entry into the property without the tenant's permission.Does that mean that the following phrase "You must... ...allow possible new tenants and prospective purchasers to look at the property on at least 24 hours’ written notice during the last month of the tenancy.", which is written in to my standard AST (obtained from the RLA) isn't actually worth the paper it's printed on?

Andy Parker
23-06-2005, 22:55 PM
The landlord has no right to enter the premises against the wishes of the tenant
even with this clause in the agreement regardless of notice given.

lucid
24-06-2005, 01:38 AM
:) slight correction for mr woofs post:

its landlord and tenant act 1985,
protection from eviction act 1977.

Ericthelobster
24-06-2005, 17:17 PM
The landlord has no right to enter the premises against the wishes of the tenant
even with this clause in the agreement regardless of notice given.Sure, but what this AST clause is saying is that the tenant has no right to reasonably withold his consent, which is a Slightly Different Thing, is it not?

zoe
24-06-2005, 18:21 PM
ericthelobster

no it is not a different thing. It does not matter what the contract says the tenant has the right to refuse access to the LL.

Zoe

MrWoof
24-06-2005, 20:00 PM
Lucid, Sorry about that, would you believe I looked the post up first and still wrote the dates down wrongly!!!:confused:

Paul_f
24-06-2005, 20:39 PM
Under the Landlord & Tenant Act 1985 S 11(6) implies an obligation on the tenant's part to allow the landlord or his authorised agent to enter and view the state of repair of the premises at reasonable times during the day and upon 24 hours written notice.

The tenant has no obligation to allow prospective tenants to view, nor do you have to give any notice to the landlord of your intention to leave at the end of the fixed term, even if he demands it.

If the landlord wants to clean the property before you leave then you don't have any obligation to pay for it but tell him he's probably doing you a big favour as it can't form part of the dilpidations assessment until after you all move out - but you don't have to let the cleaners in either if you don't want to. If there's no signed inventory the landlord can go fly a kite when it comes to making any deductions from your deposit! Your landlord is up the creek and the paddle is missing too! (Sorry about all the cliches!).