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Uncle Fester
08-03-2007, 13:20 PM
Is a Electrical Safety Certificate now compulsory for all landlords? :confused:

jeffrey
08-03-2007, 13:35 PM
Is a Electrical Safety Certificate now compulsory for all landlords? :confused:

It might be for work at their properties but not necessarily for the individual's body.
Except Gary Numan- his friend's electric.

Beeber
08-03-2007, 13:58 PM
Not to my knowledge

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/electrical_safety.htm

Bel
08-03-2007, 16:05 PM
Jeffrey; sheer class.

Bel
09-03-2007, 14:33 PM
I just had a periodic test on a one bed flat (the one recommended every 5 years) It came back as 'unsatisfactory' . I take it that anything picked up with a level 1 catagory must be attended to, or it would make the LL negligent ?

Paragon
09-03-2007, 14:42 PM
I just had a periodic test on a one bed flat (the one recommended every 5 years) It came back as 'unsatisfactory' . I take it that anything picked up with a level 1 catagory must be attended to, or it would make the LL negligent ?

What was considered unsatisfactory?

Bel
09-03-2007, 20:35 PM
What was considered unsatisfactory?

Its the overall rating for the whole of the inspection, the only other rating possible is 'satisfactory'

Catagory 1 (ie "requires urgent attention") observations on this report include
No gas or water main bonding
meter tails & main earth wire inadequate size
No supplementary RCD protection for socket outlets
Distribution board insufficient circuit way/obsolete type
Supplementary bonding in Bathroom required
Marking, labelling and identfication of installation unsatisfactory

There are some catagory 2's also ( " requires improvement")

Ericthelobster
10-03-2007, 00:23 AM
Its the overall rating for the whole of the inspection, the only other rating possible is 'satisfactory'

Catagory 1 (ie "requires urgent attention") observations on this report include
No gas or water main bonding
meter tails & main earth wire inadequate size
No supplementary RCD protection for socket outlets
Distribution board insufficient circuit way/obsolete type
Supplementary bonding in Bathroom required
Marking, labelling and identfication of installation unsatisfactoryMany of these items are things which would have been deemed perfectly OK until very recently, this is just up-to-the-minute interpretation of the regs. I would say the more significant items were the lack of gas/water bonding, and supplementary bonding in the bathroom... and I'd be interested to know why they weren't raised as issues 5 years ago?

Bel
11-03-2007, 07:39 AM
Many of these items are things which would have been deemed perfectly OK until very recently, this is just up-to-the-minute interpretation of the regs. I would say the more significant items were the lack of gas/water bonding, and supplementary bonding in the bathroom... and I'd be interested to know why they weren't raised as issues 5 years ago?

Because this is the first periodic check since it was installed +30 years ago !!!

I just need opinions of what is safe and responsible for a LL; rather than up to regs.

So the issues you have raised about bonding are your opinion of what you deem as acceptable for the LL to have to fix, Eric?

Ericthelobster
11-03-2007, 09:42 AM
Because this is the first periodic check since it was installed +30 years ago !!!Ah, fair enough - I misunderstood and thought it had last been done 5 years ago.


So the issues you have raised about bonding are your opinion of what you deem as acceptable for the LL to have to fix, Eric?I reckoned they were the most important, but I wouldn't like to go so far as to say that it would be acceptable just to fix those because (a) I'm not a qualified electrician and (b) I haven't seen the property or the electrical kit concerned; it makes vague words like "inadequate" and "insufficient" hard to quantify.

Bel
11-03-2007, 19:11 PM
Its funny how much is made of getting a periodic inspection done, but there is not much info regarding how LL's should act on them.

I think I will call Trading Standards tomorrow.

Uncle Fester
12-03-2007, 12:10 PM
I thought getting a certificate was now Law (Since 10/06) for landlords, like the Corgi Gas one is :confused:

red40
30-03-2007, 10:54 AM
Is a Electrical Safety Certificate now compulsory for all landlords? :confused:

Its only compulsory for the person managing (landlords) of a HMO, other than HMO's that consist entirely of self contained flats. I should add that its a requirement to have the fixed electrical installation inspected and tested at intervals of not greater than 5 years.

Uncle Fester
30-03-2007, 19:32 PM
Its only compulsory for the person managing (landlords) of a HMO, other than HMO's that consist entirely of self contained flats. I should add that its a requirement to have the fixed electrical installation inspected and tested at intervals of not greater than 5 years.

But is this law? as I checked with my insurance Co. and they have No idea!!!??? :confused:

red40
30-03-2007, 21:16 PM
Its a statutory requirement, so yes it is.

Esio Trot
31-03-2007, 09:43 AM
Its a statutory requirement, so yes it is.

But what statute?

I was told this week by a senior person in our council - property department - when querying a boundary of a previous right-to-buy that "Well you know the rule, and that's what must operate here - unless specified otherwise, the fence on the right is always your responsibility". When pressed to give evidence of the "rule", he could not tell me anything. I surmised then that the "rule" was just folk law!

Elektratek
03-04-2007, 09:40 AM
http://www.electricalsafetycouncil.org.uk/pdf/Landlords.pdf

http://www.electricalsafetycouncil.org.uk/pdf/portableappl.pdf

There will be another to come soon.

in brief...

The requirement is not a mandatory one, but in a round about way, the LL is responsible should something happen. I would strongly recommend having a PIR carried out, and acting on the code 1's and 2's to cover yourself.



If you have any further questions, feel free to email me, and i will try and answer. I have thought about writing an article for the site on this subject, please let me know if you think this would be beneficial to the LL's here, and i will make it as definitive as i can.

Kind regards

red40
04-04-2007, 22:05 PM
It is a statutory requirement as per Statutory Instrument 2006, No. 372, the Management of Houses in Multiple Occupation (England) Regulations 2006.

The relevant part below is an extract from the SI.

Duty of manager to supply and maintain gas and electricity
6. —(1) The manager must supply to the local housing authority within 7 days of receiving a request in writing from that authority the latest gas appliance test certificate it has received in relation to the testing of any gas appliance at the HMO by a recognised engineer.

(2) In paragraph (1), "recognised engineer" means an engineer recognised by the Council of Registered Gas Installers as being competent to undertake such testing.

(3) The manager must—

(a) ensure that every fixed electrical installation is inspected and tested at intervals not exceeding five years by a person qualified to undertake such inspection and testing;

(b) obtain a certificate from the person conducting that test, specifying the results of the test; and

(c) supply that certificate to the local housing authority within 7 days of receiving a request in writing for it from that authority.

If you need to see the SI, it can be found here (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20060372.htm)

Stuart Urban
15-04-2007, 08:31 AM
The SI referred to above is for Houses in Multiple Occupancy so doesn't apply to all properties.

"(b) obtain a certificate from the person conducting that test"

It would be impossible to comply with this legislation as a contractor can not give a certificate for testing of an existing installation he can only give a report. This might sound pedantic but I have had problems before with people wanting "certificates" when in fact all they can have is a Periodic Inspection Report.

Bel
15-04-2007, 16:10 PM
My electrician said that if I carried out all the class 1 and 2 work required, he would be able to give me a certificate that the installation complied with current safety regs/criterea.

baldelectrician
16-04-2007, 06:57 AM
Speaking as an electrician it concerns me that clients phone up for a 'certificate' expect to pay £50 for 3-4 hours work (if a PIR is done correctly it should take this long)

I explain a PIR is like a MOT- you wouldn't expect a garage to pass a car with dodgy brakes. Remeber there are circumstances where a 30 year old property will have a few code 4 (meets a previous version of the regs), but is deemed satisfactoy. Then you get a 5 year old property that fails because a diy nut has fitted a kitchen and made a hash of the electrics.

I do a fair few PIR's and when a house is brought up to standard the wiring check is reduced in price (half) the follwing years as I will have previous test results.
If a house is 30 years old, spending £250-£400 on bringig it up to speed is peanuts (chances it has had nothing spent on the electrics for over 20 years). The money spent is a wise investment (new consumer unit - then tenant can't put a bit of foil in where th fuse should go; if they do por diy the rcd should kick in.