S8- Correct wording?

[Denebob]

Oh I wish I had found this forum BEFORE we issued the S8!!

Still it was only today so I could still do another one if neccessary.

Could someone read through the appendix I have added to the S8 I issued & advise me whether it is worded correctly? The last thing I want is to get get 2 weeks down the line & find it is not valid.

Monthly tenancy commenced 15th September 2004 at agreed rent of £600.00 pcm payable on 15th of each month thereafter. Annual Shorthold Tenancy Agreement was signed by both parties. To date, the tenants have paid the following:
On 15th September 2004 one months deposit of £600.00 and one months rent in advance of £600.00 for the month of September to October 2004.
On 15th October they paid £600.00 for the month of October to November 2004.

On 25th November 2004 a letter was received from the Tenants stating that the November rent payment of £600.00 was late and would be paid as soon as possible.
On 7th December 2004 a payment of £150.00 was received into Mr Peatfield’s bank account as part payment of the overdue rent for November to December 2004.
On 10th January 2005 a payment of £600.00 was paid into Mr Peatfield’s account for the overdue rent for December to January 2005.
No payment has been received since this time despite numerous written agreements and promises to pay.

Therefore, to date the following rent is owed:

Nov- Dec 2004 £450.00
Jan- Feb 2005 £600.00
Total amount of arrears due since November 15th 2004, representing an arrears period of 3 months: £1050.00

Feb- Mar 2005 payment due on 15th February to the amount of £600.00. Pending no further payment, this will bring the arrears amount to £1650.00.

Thank you so much :)

[Dan]

Hi Denebob,

What grounds did you state on your Section 8 notice? You should have used a combination of grounds 8, 10 and 11. Where did you obtain your Section 8 notice from? As you are obviously aware the wording has to be technically precise in every detail. How did you serve the notice? Do you have proof of posting and/or witnesses?

[Denebob]

Hi Dan

Yes grounds 8, 10 & 11 were already entered onto the form- I used one from the RLA- Residential Landlords Association.

The notice was served today by a member of staff of my parents & my mum witnessed it!! (We don't live nearby :o )

I followed the instructions as to the wording of the reasons for eviction as much as possible I hope. Basically what I have quoted was an attachment to the form as there is not much space is there? I wrote on the actual form "see attached".

Please tell me this is OK?!

[P.Pilcher]

Be careful! IMHO, your tenant is not technically in arrears by two months until he fails to make his payment on the 15th. February. When I had to do this I found that finding the appropriate form on the internet somewhat difficult unless a legal firm was paid a fee. I got one out of one of my L&T law books in the end. At the hearing the judge was most disparaging and because I wasn't a solicitor suggested that I got the form off the internet and subjected it to a minute analysis. I got the distinct impression that if I had even made one typo, the case would have been thrown out. (It wasn't - the tenant was.) Such is the problem we face with tenant friendly landlord hostile judges.


P.P.

[Dan]

Hi Denebob,

It sounds as though you've done everything right. There are several threads in the old forums from people who have successfully used the RLA form. I used the same form but didn't have to go to court. The tenants moved out as soon as they received it. They feared the chance of a CCJ against them.

P.Pilcher is quite correct and your tenants aren't two months in arrears until the 15th Feb (Today!) Otherwise your appendix looks fine to me. There are people on this forum who have much more experience and knowledge than me and I'm sure they'll respond if there's a problem.

Good Luck, and please keep us informed as to what happens and your experiences because it is threads like this that go all the way to completion that add so much value to the forum.

[Denebob]

Thanks for the advice guys. I will keep the forum updated but i'm hoping our tenants will flee like yours did Dan.

I was under the impresion that as they have defaulted since November, it would be classed as more than 2 months in arrears, even though they have made part payment?

If this is NOT the case & they are not 2 months in arrears until today, do you think I should re-issue the S* with the new arrears amount stated & dating it 2 weeks from today for the court action to commence? (I had put 28th Feb)

[Dan]

The two months in arrears means two months rent owing when the case goes to court. If the tenants made a part payment just before the case was heard, sufficient to bring them under the two months arrears, the case would be thrown out. That is why it is so important to state multiple grounds and also backup those grounds with evidence.

I wouldn't send them another notice as it might give the wrong impression to your tenants.

[P.Pilcher]

It depends how "tenant friendly" the judge you get on the day is. Where such matters have (expensively) gone to the court of appeal, I understand that their attitude has been that "a day or two is playing with trifles: the tenant is clearly not intending to pay so here's your possession order" Regrettably I can't provide a case reference for this decision, but I wish more district judges were aware of it!
As Dan says I should press on and keep your fingers crossed that common sense rules at the hearing. I assume that you have already served an S21 notice so that you can get them out at the end of their tenancy (two months notice required, minimum) just in case you need it. If your action fails, then you can always say goodbye to your £130 + expenses and serve another S8 notice. At least if this succeeds you will get a CCJ for your outstanding rent. It just depends on the timescale.

P.P.

[Denebob]

SUCCESS!!!!! :D :D :D

S8 was issued on Monday- tenants buggered off yesterday!!!!

OK so they still owe us £1650 but at least they are out & we don't have the hassle of going to court & racking up more debt with them.

Am going to look into chasing them through courts for the arrears anyway- worth a try (obviously they left no forwarding address :rolleyes: )

Any clues as to where I start with that one? Do we just continue with the S8 even though thay are out now?

[Dan]

Great news! Yes you are quite right, the best course of action is to continue with the Section 8 and get an eviction notice issued by the court. This should also ensure that your "Ex" tenants get a CCJ against them. Shame you can't trace them though. Can you not find them via their work?

[davidjohnbutton]

When is the law going to be changed so that buggering off without paying rent is a criminal offence instead of being a "civil matter sir" when you try to get the police involved.

If I go and obtain petrol at a filling station and I drive off without paying - it is a criminal offence - likewise if I go into a pizza hut, sit down and enjoy a meal and then walk off without paying. Both the above are civil contracts which are protected by criminal law - so why is it that a tenant can sit in my house for months without paying and then deliberately move specifically in order to avoid paying the debt and not be prosecuted?

It should also be made a criminal offence not to pay rent where housing benefit funds have been given to the tenant specifically for paying his/her rent. The new schemes where the tenant gets a local housing allowance and has to pay the landlord direct (instead of HB going directly to the landlord) must be riddled with people who have pocketed the first HB payment and spent it on god knows what - anything but rent!