Buying already-let BTL property at auction

[hgllgh]

I am a FTB looking into auction purchase as a way of avoiding the inflated prices in West London. The two major costs pre auction are legal and survey. As most of you will be aware the problem with auctions is that someone can turn up on the day and outbid you. It's almost as if you are setting yourself up to be gazumped on the day of purchase! So, the question I have is how to minimise these pre auction costs but still bid in relative peace of mind.

Do you need to get a survey every time you bid ? ( As far as I'm aware most purchasers buying flats on the open market don't bother with a survey. I want a flat rather than a house) DIY survey ?

When buying at auction the legal pack contains searches and title deeds. Can I just ask the Sellers solicitor any questions related to the property. If there are any problems such as defects in the lease for example could I trust the sellers solicitor to make me aware of these ?

Also, anyone actually bought a flat in West London through auction recently ? What were selling prices like ?

[jeffrey]

I agree with wickerman. Your own solicitor should advise you re docs. pack; it's no good expecting V's solicitor to do this!

[first timer]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of buying a tenanted flat. I'm assured there is an AST agreement in force but the current landlord has lost this and a copy cannot be secured from the tenant.
The estate agent tells me they cannot sell without sight of the agreement as word of mouth is obviously not good enough. They now propose for them to serve a section 21 on tenant and offer exchange of contracts with a 10% deposit payable subject to us gaining vacant possession. What do you guys think? Does that sound reasonable for me as the buyer? I intended to give the tenant notice anyway so in one respect it will mean that someone else has the hassle of evicting her. They say that the deposit would be refundable to me if for some reason they cannot get the tenant out.

I am concerned meanwhile that if it does go wrong I would end up with conveyancing fees all for nothing. Would it be wise to ask that they are met by the vendor if we don't complete? Also, why should I have to pay a deposit upfront - never done this before. How can it be so one-sided where if the sale doesn't go through because of me I lose the deposit but if they pull out I get nothing? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[jeffrey]

I'd go for the purchase with vacant possession, even if you then re-let.
Contract will contain VP clause. Vendor liable for your costs if can't deliver VP property on contractual completion date and you serve a Notice to Complete. If contract fails, you can recover all deposit.
10% deposit is usual on most purchases, unless - for example - purchaser is borrowing >90% on mortgage advance.

[first timer]

Thanks Jeffrey - that does sound the better option but now they have come back with trying to see if the local authority has a copy of the tenancy agreement as they currently pay half the tenant's rent. Think your suggestion would be better for me though so now I'm almost hoping the council can't locate a copy either!

[jeffrey]

Thanks Jeffrey - that does sound the better option but now they have come back with trying to see if the local authority has a copy of the tenancy agreement as they currently pay half the tenant's rent. Think your suggestion would be better for me though so now I'm almost hoping the council can't locate a copy either!

Only alternative would be for vendor and T to sign a replacement AST, reflecting what they believe was in the original, so at least you would know subject to what you are purchasing.

[first timer]

I'm not sure that would be possible as it seems the relationship between the current landlord and tenant has broken down. She knows that she is going to have to leave her home so I don't think she will be keen to give anyone a helping hand in this process. She has already said she'll copy the agreement on two occasions but failed to do this and now it seems she is not taking their calls.....seems a no go!

[oxtailsoup]

Hi,
I've seen a property listed on a forthcoming coming auction that states it is currently let on an assured periodic tenancy with a review due in August 2009.

I've been searching online for the details on a APT but can't find anything. The only thing I can find is when an AST runs out and it becomes a statutory periodic tenancy. Is this the same thing?

The same landlord who is selling this property at auction is also selling other properties but they are all listed as regulated tenancies. So I want to understand exactly what a APT is in case it is similar to a regulated tenancy.

Thanks

[Preston]

Hi,
I've seen a property listed on a forthcoming coming auction that states it is currently let on an assured periodic tenancy with a review due in August 2009.

I've been searching online for the details on a APT but can't find anything. The only thing I can find is when an AST runs out and it becomes a statutory periodic tenancy. Is this the same thing?

The same landlord who is selling this property at auction is also selling other properties but they are all listed as regulated tenancies. So I want to understand exactly what a APT is in case it is similar to a regulated tenancy.

Thanks

Hi

With his description you should assume that this is a fully assured tenancy. This means that the tenant has a high degree of security and can only be evicted on one of the grounds set out in schedule 2 of the Housing Act 1988. The level of security is indeed quite similar to an old regulated tenancy and if the same landlord is selling properties with regulated tenants, my guess is that the assured tenant has succeeded to the tenancy on the death of a regulated tenant.

Obviously this level of security will substantially affect the valuation.

Preston

[oxtailsoup]

Thanks Preston, I'll contact the acting solicitor and see what info I can get next week. I really don't want to touch a regulated type of tenancy.

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

I've never bought at auction before but I've been scouring auction catalogues for the last year or so with a view to finding something with development potential.

One thing I notice a lot is that tenanted properties are being sold at auction, but often halfway through 6 month Assured Shorthold Tenancy agreements. These sort of properties tend to go for much lower prices, I assume due to the tenant.

Here's one I found today as an example:

eigroup.co.uk/imagelib/lotphotos/hah/20100126/22.pdf

Guide price is £170,000+
Neighbouring properties have sold for £225,000 - £250,000


Am I missing something here? Could you buy the property, and serve 2 months notice to leave, once the 6 months has expired in May?

Also, why wouldn't the vendor just hold on a couple more months and do that themselves? There might be cases where the vendor is just desperate to sell, but I see so many of these I can't believe there's that many people willing to loose potentially £10k's.

[Poppy]

Hold your horses! You need to know what type of tenancy agreement is in place. If it is an assured tenancy or a rent act tenancy, you can bet your bottom auction dollar you ain’t getting those tenants out. Also beware of situations where tenants have signed an AST agreement to supposedly replaced their assured or rent act status – they are not valid.

If it can be proved that the tenant has an assured shorthold tenancy, you can serve notice or perhaps the former landlord served notice which would still be valid. If the tenant does not vacate voluntarily you will need a court order.

There are a minority of landlords who cannot afford their mortgages and it is simpler to sell at auction to someone who'll buy there and then, instead of pussy-footing around with estate agents picking on paint colours, or not getting access because the tenant declines.

Undertake thorough research before buying anything, especially without vacant possession.

Are you a landlord?

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

I am a landlord, but it's totally managed by an agent as it's far away from me, so I am still a bit green on a lot of topics.

The example I linked to above (forum wouldn't let me create a proper link as I'm a new member) specifically says it's AST, not the others you mention, though obviously it doesn't say the history behind the AST, so maybe there's more than meets the eye, as I suspected.

[Poppy]

An important part of your due diligence when establishing the true status of a tenant, is to find out when the tenant took up occupation.

[jeffrey]

Ask your solicitor to look at whole auction pack of particulars for any lot, before you bid. This applies to any purchase, whether a sitting tenant is in occupation or otherwise. Auction is a known method of selling a problem property; do not buy into a problem!

[arusha]

unhappydisgustingwow I disagree with Jeffery slightly about not buying into a problem.

Often you can make money out of seeing opportunities where others see problems. The key is do your research, is it a problem that can be resolved? How much will it cost to be resolved? If you are taking a big risk can you afford to lose the money you are spending? Is the potential profit worth the hassle and the risks?

I have often thought there may be some opportunities buying these sorts of difficult properties at auction and then resolving the problem but so far haven't had the time to do the research or the cash. (You may well need cash if there are problems with the lease, tenancy agreement or structure).

[Interlaken]

Look out for the words 'subject to a regulated tenancy' with these properties- this tenant will not be moving that is for sure.

My uncle's flat came up for sale at a posh London auction house in the summer and he has such a tenancy having lived in his SW13 flat paying a very small rent since 1964. He has no rent book or agreement. He has seen off 3 landlords who include some of the biggest private landlords in the UK and at 78 hopes to live as long as his mother who achieved 99. He really likes his unmodernised flat with garden and wants to live no where else.

I went along to bid on this flat for the family but the price went through the roof as the bidders who had not read the legal pack as descbribed by Poppy and Jeffrey pushed the price up. The bidders obviously thought they would be able to get him out and make a few bob. One person did complete the purchase and is now stuck with it and him. LOL

They have put it with an agent to manage as they were sooo embarrassed by the mistake. My uncle's local authority keep a very close eye on his situation and slap any untoward approach made to him down firmly.

Definitely a case of 'buyer beware'.

Interlaken

[Telometer]

unhappydisgustingwow I disagree with Jeffery slightly about not buying into a problem.

There's a world of difference between buying into a problem, and buying into an opportunity...

Buying a house with a Rent Act tenant in his 50s is a problem.


OP.
1. You'll quite proabably find that the property needs a full refurb before it's worth the 250k.

2. The guide price is 170 +. Not 170-180. They might not sell it for under 185, and they may expect it to make 200. Which is a 10% discount on "retail" which is about reasonable.

3. The vendor may expect CGT to go up in the budget.

4. L may have died and executors want rid.

5. A tenanted property is a plus for some Ls - saves having to fill it.

6. A 5% yield on gross gives a value of £208,000. BTL mortgages are 5.1%. BP shares are yielding over 6% - scarcely seems worth the effort of the house, does it?

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

Yeah, I know about the old 'regulated tenancy' tenants being a non-mover, which is why I was so was surprised to see so many listed with tenants on the newer ASTs.

Is it illegal to approach tenants on regulated tenancies with a finacial offer if they agree to vacate the property?

I know obviously it is illegal to harass them and I'm no van Hoogstraten! Just curious about options and opportunities.

[Poppy]

It’s not illegal. How much do you think such a tenant would accept? I’m thinking you’d have to literally buy them another house.

[Telometer]

How much?

House with vacant possession worth £300,000. House with regulated tenant worth £160,000.

It's clearly worth L's while to (in the event L cannot imagine T's departure) pay up to £139,999. But a £1 profit isn't worth it.

To get a deal, both sides have to think that the other side is underselling themselves. So T has to ask for little enough money that L will pay it; and L has to offer enough money that T will take it.

Agreements like this tend to start negotiations with splitting the profit 50:50, but then you have to work from there. If L wants to sell anyway, then paying T anything less than 140k is profitable. If T wants to go anyway, then receiving anything more than £0 is a bonus.

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

It’s not illegal. How much do you think such a tenant would accept? I’m thinking you’d have to literally buy them another house.

I dunno, like I said, just exploring possibilities.

When my mate got moved by the council so they could demolish his block, he got £3.5k from them and was delighted, as the previous place was a nightmare anyway.

Obv a family with kids isn't likely to want to budge for any price.

@ jeffrey - yeah, wouldn't just walk in blind. :) but would like to gain the knowledge to weed out as many no-nos as I can before paying out for solicitors to tell me it's a bad idea.

@ Telometer - yup, that's exactly what I had figured as one avenue. Just didn't know if it was above board to do so.

[Poppy]

£3,500 doesn’t sound like it was a regulated tenant. You’re not comparing like with like.

[arusha]

There's a world of difference between buying into a problem, and buying into an opportunity...


That's not true! It's a very fine line indeed. A problem for many people is an opportunity for others. I like properties where it is hard to find mortgages. I bought one that had been on the market for ages, fallen through for mortgage reasons twice (was a leasehold house with three flats in but had no underleases set up) but I did my research managed to find a suitable mortgage and made a killing.

My next plan when I have more cash is to buy ones where you really can't get a mortgage (not just hard to find one) and then fix the "problem" to make them mortgagable. This will add value and combined with the usual refurb, will have far more potential for profit that your average development.

I must say though that one bad thing about auctions is that you may spend time doing all the research and understand the problems with the property, but if some muppet hasn't done the research and they outbid you then you have wasted your time. I have never bought at auction myself.

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

£3,500 doesn’t sound like it was a regulated tenant. You’re not comparing like with like.

No, I realise that, I was just saying that to a young carefree single guy not too bothered about where he lives £3,500 is a lot.

To a firmly rooted family, it might take £10ks - Telometer pretty much got where I was coming from.

[bullybantam]

I recently went to an auction & bidded, but all went over my internal guide price. Buying at auction is no nonsense, but very stressful. I cannot stress importance of doing a dry run.

As for buying tenanted properties. You often see them at auction, they ussually do sell. In many cases they're repos and go for keen prices.

But you often see people overbidding, thinking it must be cheap because it's an an auction:eek:

As for guide price, forget it - it's a guess with a bit of marketing thrown in.

As for sitting tenants, this is what's called a reversionary investment. I did take a very close look at one on sale via an estate agent - but was beaten to it...

[quarterday]

In my experience it rarely happens nowadays but I have had some success with relocating regulated tenants, invariably at their request, where the tenancy is transferred to newer and generally smaller accommodation.

Incidentally I have discovered over the years that where tenants make an approach to be bought out the reason is invariably that they have decided to go anyway. Accordingly it is not my practice to offer more than a refund of six months rent at the most to help them on their way

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

Would like to ressurrect this thread for advice in light of another 'bargain' I've spotted. The guide price is half the property value, with sitting tenants.

The people dealing with it tell me that 'no AST can be found', although supposedly a 12 month did exist initially.

What's actually happened is the tenants used to own the property, did some sort of 'sale & rent back' scheme at the peak of the boom, but the landlord then went bust in the crash. It got auctioned by the mortgage company last year, but the sale fell through when mysteriously nobody could find the AST. Hence this new auction's mega low guide price.

So, what would be the chance of a purchaser ending the tenancy if there is absolutely no evidence of any letting agreement at all? (This seems a different circumstance to those described in previous posts when tenants are on a regulated tenancy)

[bullybantam]

Would like to ressurrect this thread for advice in light of another 'bargain' I've spotted. The guide price is half the property value, with sitting tenants.



Keyword is guide price, they're ussually side of what they fetch. Often by a wide margin.

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

Keyword is guide price, they're ussually side of what they fetch. Often by a wide margin.

Yeah, realise that BB, but I've seen other properties like this make under the guide price too of late, so worth persuing methinks.

So my question still stands:

Could a new landlord end the tenancy/force the tenant onto an AST if there is absolutely no written evidence of a letting agreement at all?

[matthew_henson]

Yeah, realise that BB, but I've seen other properties like this make under the guide price too of late, so worth persuing methinks.

So my question still stands:

Could a new landlord end the tenancy/force the tenant onto an AST if there is absolutely no written evidence of a letting agreement at all?

Depended entirely when the tenant first took residence, no regulated or assured tenant is going to give up their considerable rights for an AST. Don't forgot a regulated tenancy also has regulated rent which is usually well under the market rate (based on council rents) and any rent rise has to go to a council rent board for assesement

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

Depended entirely when the tenant first took residence, no regulated or assured tenant is going to give up their considerable rights for an AST. Don't forgot a regulated tenancy also has regulated rent which is usually well under the market rate (based on council rents) and any rent rise has to go to a council rent board for assesement

The tenancy would have begun in 2007 (via the sale & rent back scheme I mentioned). They lived there for 3 years prior to that as property owners.

The rental income stated in the auction details is in line with current market rate.

I suspect what's happened is that the tenant has realised that a copy of the original AST is unlikely to be found from the bust landlord company, and so has conveniently 'lost' his own copy in order to buy himself more time in the property, or thinks it will allow him to stay there indefinitely.

Is such a property unrecoverable?

[bullybantam]

The tenancy would have begun in 2007 (via the sale & rent back scheme I mentioned). They lived there for 3 years prior to that as property owners.

The rental income stated in the auction details is in line with current market rate.

I suspect what's happened is that the tenant has realised that a copy of the original AST is unlikely to be found from the bust landlord company, and so has conveniently 'lost' his own copy in order to buy himself more time in the property, or thinks it will allow him to stay there indefinitely.

Is such a property unrecoverable?

Isn't the tenant a squatter if they're in a property without a rental agreement?

[matthew_henson]

Would depend what terms were placed in the non existent "contract" the goverment is looking to regulate the sale and rent back market and provide a minimum term of 5 years. I would be wary as in such as transaction will have an audit trail (the house purchase and electorial register)

It does however look like it is a standard AST and hence there should be no issues to gain posession provided the term has expired

Provided the tenant pays or has paid rent and the LL accepts it a legal tenancy exists regardless of a contract or not

Remember the old adage, if it is too good to be true, it IS too good to be true

[havensRus]

Isn't the tenant a squatter if they're in a property without a rental agreement?
Provided the tenant pays or has paid rent and the LL accepts it a legal tenancy exists regardless of a contract or not


Correct. Acceptance of rent from T by LL, without a written contract, constitutes an oral contract.



Remember the old adage, if it is too good to be true, it IS too good to be true

Replace is with “looks” or “sounds”


The goverment is looking to regulate the sale and rent back market and provide a minimum term of 5 years.


Regulation is already in place as from June 2009


The rental income stated in the auction details is in line with current market rate.

I suspect what's happened is that the tenant has realised that a copy of the original AST is unlikely to be found from the bust landlord company, and so has conveniently 'lost' his own copy in order to buy himself more time in the property, or thinks it will allow him to stay there indefinitely.

Is such a property unrecoverable?

It is recoverable, but will probably require a lot of due diligence.
It does sound like the tenant is playing for time. But I’m sure if there was money due him/her (e.g. deposit), they’d be able to produce the AST.

There may be a back-end deal in the SRB agreement - whereby the T will get some lump sum if they remain in place a T for x number of years. Watch out..



I would be wary as in such as transaction will have an audit trail (the house purchase and electorial register)


It is the audit trail that unhappy….WOW needs to find.
1. Is there a legal pack for the proposed sale? There should be one, so get hold of it.
2. If not in the pack, then order a copy of the title from the LR. It should give you the information you need about ownership and when it changed hands.
3. If individuals, you should still be able to trace them … use a tracing agent.
4. If company, the company’s house records should show who directors are/were, and you could try tracing them.
5. Visit the property and talk to the occupants… and try and understand their views .. e.g. if they are happy to stay on as tenants etc.
6. They should have some proof of rent being paid – but you may have to ask your sol to try to obtain this from the T, or if they would give it to you directly. Also they’d have been paying something to the lenders/receivers since the repo, so the receiver should be able to produce a statement showing this.
7. Also, if you are able to speak to T, find out the sol that acted for them as sellers in the SRB – they should have contact details for sol that acted for purchaser and may be able to advice on how to contact them.

Its probably got to the stage where the lenders just want it off their hands and will take whatever they can get for it. Think as laterally as you possibly can – if you think its worth it to you.

HTH

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

Thanks guys, I really feel like I'm getting somewhere on this now. :)

I'm not going to be near the property until the auction now, so no chance of speaking directly with the tenant. :-/

The estate agents dealing with it says as far as they know the tenant has always paid the rent, no probs. I've found the title & legal pack, which confirms the specific date of sale (and when the tenancy would have begun) in 2007. Does this mean the new 2009 5-year sale and rent back regulations won't apply?

Also, assuming this uninterrupted rent paying means there's an oral AST in place, could I force the tenant to sign a written AST of the same terms, in order to then get a BTL mortgage on the place (freeing some of my capital back up)?

Good point about the back-end deal. In the absence of being able to find out if there was one, would it be possible to buy an insurance to cover me?

The title ownership is in an individual's name, who with a bit of simple Googling I've managed to find a phone number for (scary eh?).
From my understanding of the legal pack it seems it was actually the lending bank that went into Administration, rather than this guy (or his company if he had one) going bust of its own accord. The pack states the seller is 'Mr X acting by Receivers Y appointed by Mortgage Bank Z (in Administration)'.

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

I've found out that apparently a written AST does exist, it is only signed by the landlord though, not the tenant. However it was the tenant that provided it. :confused: And I've had it confirmed again by the receivers that the tenant has always paid rent on time.

They mentioned that other adults (poss. brothers/sisters) not named on the AST have lived there too, and there's a possibilty they may still be doing so. I wonder if they are counted as lodgers?

How does all this affect my chance of recovering the property, and could I force the current tenants to sign a written version of the verbal AST they appear to be living by?

[sjcollett]

tenant proving the AST - that's a new one on me! basically, whenever you are getting involved in these deals you are taking a risk. What you need to calculate is how much that risk is worth - e.g. if you buy 40k less than what you believe the property to be worth will that be worth the risk you are taking?

With regards your original question - landlords do sell halfway through an AST because some of them are having to free up capital having over-invested in other things/ refurbs going wrong etc - thus they are trying to get rid of what may be good investments because the short term cash flow dictates they have to do that or go under. Of course, there will be landlords who are also selling on problems - only thorough research will tell you which this is

I have bought regulated and ASTs are auction - both were fine. Both I priced according to the risk/ reward ratio I have outline above. each case is individual and needs to be assessed thoroughly.

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

This is being sold as a repo and not because of the current AST problem, which only came to light when a previous sale of it fell through (the guide price has since been lowered in accordance).

Yes, I think the risk is worth it as the vacant value is potentially much higher than even £40k profit, and the future expansion potential (subject to PP!) is enormous.

I've arranged to meet the tenants to try and discuss what their issues are with the current AST situ. They may have just refused to sign the receivers new AST because it had different terms to the original. Or I may be able to persuade them to sign a new AST (if i win the auction) in return for a cash back-hander. Is this above board?

Also, as it stands with the receiver's new AST unsigned by the tenants, is the original AST in any way still valid? (the landlord named on it is still named on the title deeds of the property, however the tenants have been paying rent to the receivers since the repo)

[Mars Mug]

Or I may be able to persuade them to sign a new AST (if i win the auction) in return for a cash back-hander. Is this above board?

I’m sure that I’ve read in similar situations that offers to cover moving costs / deposits have been successful, especially if the tenant realises that sooner or later they will have to leave anyway. If you stand to make so much profit then a few £1000’s offered to help in moving might be a worthwhile investment.

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

Ok, I've found another potential property! :-)

This one has me puzzling though because it doesn't appear to be a repossession, and yet the tenants are on a 6 month AST starting from about 2 weeks ago. :confused:

The latest the seller could've submitted it to auction would've been about 2 weeks ago, but was more likely before, and obviously they must've had the sale in mind for some time prior to this.

So why might they have just granted a new 6 month term when the property is worth much more vacant?

[Poolboy]

I bought a flat with tenants in situ mid contract. I may actually sell it again with tenants mid contract.

As a seller it is a good deal as I can price it a bit more & wait for the market to catch up, whilst waiting I get the rent paid to me.

I have looked at a few now as a buyer, you really have to know yr stuff as some of the rents quoted were v high. I don't know if it is just fictitious or the tenant agrees to an inflated AST value just to make the sale price look better.

There was a thread on here a while ago about an auction purchase going horribly wrong - the AST was false & the auction house didn't want to know.

As everyone says on here - you really have to be an expert.

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

I have looked at a few now as a buyer, you really have to know yr stuff as some of the rents quoted were v high. I don't know if it is just fictitious or the tenant agrees to an inflated AST value just to make the sale price look better.

I'm pretty clued up on the going rates for the particular area, so that's no probs (it's not in London where a few streets apart can command huge differences). And the 6 months left on the AST works in my favour as it'd give me time to sort out planning permission to extend once the tenant leaves.

It's more that to me it seems an odd thing to do. I was thinking maybe the vendor has done it as a favour to the tenant, or can't face evicting them (maybe it's a friend or relative, the house hasn't been sold in the last 10 years according to nethouseprices). But even so it's a big chunk of money for the Seller to miss out on. What else could it be?

[Poolboy]

watch out on nethouseprices. Some deals are excluded - repos I believe, corporate sales (perhaps the same as corporate activity as its a bank sale). I got this info from here so have a search.

[jeffrey]

HMLR's Website is the most authoritative. It covers every property transferred/registered.

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

HMLR's Website is the most authoritative. It covers every property transferred/registered.

Do they do it as an historic list, per street, like Nethouseprices, or do you mean individual titles can be purchased for £4 each?

As inaccurate as it sometimes may be (and I've found one or two holes myself), nethouseprices is great for getting an instant overview of what's been going on in a street/area.

[jeffrey]

Whilst individual title copies can of course be purchased, HMLR records data re 'price paid' in every case. Try it and see how it works.

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

Do you have a link to the page on HMLR that does this?

[jeffrey]

Do you have a link to the page on HMLR that does this?
Try http://www1.landregistry.gov.uk/property_info/ and go on from there.

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

I can only see the 'Price paid dataset' link (in the grey panel in the centre of the page) which then invites me to pay £3k per year for access. Is this the one you meant?

[jeffrey]

I can only see the 'Price paid dataset' link (in the grey panel in the centre of the page) which then invites me to pay £3k per year for access. Is this the one you meant?
I have no idea! I've never used it myself. Why don't you simply ask HMLR what's available and on what basis?

[unhappydisgustingWOW]

Oh, sorry, it sounded like it was something you use regularly and I thought I was just missing the obvious.

[jeffrey]

Sorry; I do use HMLR on a daily basis but not the 'property price data' part of its website.

[jeffrey]

Here's more about the rival 'house price' analysis systems:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3132863.stm

[StevieG]

Hi

I was hoping to learn from my fellow landlords what a prospective buyer's rights are when purchasing a property at auction that is already tenanted on AST terms.

Can the prospective buyer ask to see the existing tenancy agreement?

Can the prospective buyer ask about the rent payment history of the tenant and if so, what documentary evidence should one ask for?

Following the purchase, can the tenancy agreement be amended to include the new owner's details?

If the tenant is in default when the property is purchased and assuming the tenancy agreement cannot/has not been changed, what course of action must the new owner follow and how long does it typically take to evict the tenant?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[jeffrey]

1. The purchaser (P) buys by reference to the Auction Sale Contract, just as every P's rights are contractually described.
2. The auction pack should include not only V's title details but also a copy of all incumbrances (things to which the sale is subject).
3. The incumbrances include the Letting Agreement, of course.
4. There might also be details of the rent-payment history (but this is not invariably there).
5. On completion, P steps into V's shoes.
6. P must thereupon serve T with:
a. V's Letter of Authority;
b. Notice under s.3 of LTA 1985; and
c. Notice under s.48 of LTA 1987.
7. No new Letting Agreement is needed, although a new one could be negotiated between P and T.
8. If T is in arrears as at the completion date, V may stipulate that P has to pay-up the arrears (but can take-over V's enforcement rights against T).

[StevieG]

Thanks Jeffrey, much appreciated.

[Wickerman]

Hi

I was hoping to learn from my fellow landlords what a prospective buyer's rights are when purchasing a property at auction that is already tenanted on AST terms.

Can the prospective buyer ask to see the existing tenancy agreement?

Can the prospective buyer ask about the rent payment history of the tenant and if so, what documentary evidence should one ask for?

Following the purchase, can the tenancy agreement be amended to include the new owner's details?

If the tenant is in default when the property is purchased and assuming the tenancy agreement cannot/has not been changed, what course of action must the new owner follow and how long does it typically take to evict the tenant?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Do not believe:

The auction catalogues "rental income of..."
The tenants verbal "I pay £x per week/month"
The tenants verbal "I am fully up to date on my rent"
The landlords statement of "The tenant is fully up to date"
The landlords statement of "The tenant is hardly ever there, they stay at friends most night" [this means... the tenant is with a long term partner who gets more benefit if they are on their own, so they are taking two properties and the person is hardly ever at your property, so you are effectively party to benefit fraud].

Believe NOTHING. I have seen too many false statements in auction catalogues.

[Interlaken]

Also check the tenant is on an AST and not some other form of tenancy. This is not always made clear at the auction.

[Poolboy]

spot on, believe nothing. Some of the rents are way off the pace so someone bids it up & gets a dose of the winners curse.

Someone posted on here a while ago about the fictitious nature of auction catalogues.

[jeffrey]

spot on, believe nothing. Some of the rents are way off the pace so someone bids it up & gets a dose of the winners curse.

Someone posted on here a while ago about the fictitious nature of auction catalogues.
So P ought to see by what contractual obligations on sale V is prepared to be bound.
If V excludes all liability for everything to do with the tenancy, inc. rent receipts, do not buy.

[Moderator1]

Several largely similar questions on separate threads have been merged into this thread (hence the repetitive nature of answers).