more converted flats hmo questions

[arusha]

1. If I have a house converted to four fully self contained flats and only put one tenant in each then do I not need a licence as there are less than 5 people?

2. If I do need a licence for this property do I just apply for one licence then not one for each flat? If so how would that work if two seperate landlords owned different flats in the block. Would each landlord need a licence each but not one per flat?

Currently I know I don't need a licence for converted flats I am just thinking ahead as it seems I will next year.

[Poppy]

You have described a block of self-contained flats. If there is one person in each flat, then that is certainly not a house in multiple occupation (HMO). And because it's not an HMO, it does not need a licence.

[jeffrey]

You have described a block of self-contained flats. If there is one person in each flat, then that is certainly not a house in multiple occupation (HMO). And because it's not an HMO, it does not need a licence.
Yes.
General note: "HMO" is defined at length in s.254 of Housing Act 2004.

[jeffrey]

AND - by para. 7 in Schedule 14 to 2004 Act - a building occupied by only two people (separate households) is not a HMO except so far as concerns Part 1 of Act (Housing standards/conditions and Improvement Notices etc.)
Consequently, Poppy's answer would apply even if two people per flat.

[red40]

1. If I have a house converted to four fully self contained flats and only put one tenant in each then do I not need a licence as there are less than 5 people?


Not a mandatory licence, no, although additional and /or selctive licensing may apply. You should consult with your local authority


Yes.
General note: "HMO" is defined at length in s.254 of Housing Act 2004.

HMO definitons are covered by section 254 to 257 of the Housing Act 2004.


You have described a block of self-contained flats. If there is one person in each flat, then that is certainly not a house in multiple occupation (HMO).

First you need to establish when the conversion was done, and was building control approval granted

A HMO can also be a building converted and consisting entirely of self contained flats (for the purposes of the Housing Act these are known as 'certain converted blocks of flats', section 257, HA 2004) were the building work undertaken in connection with the conversion did not comply with the appropriate building standards.

The appropriate standards means in the case of converted blocks of flats, that the building work was completed before 1st June 1992 or which is dealt with by regulation 20 of the Building Regulations 1991.

Therefore anything post 1st June 1992 would not consititute a HMO if the conversion was done with full building control approval, anything pre 1st June 1992 is by definition a HMO, section 257 of the HA.


AND - by para. 7 in Schedule 14 to 2004 Act - a building occupied by only two people (separate households) is not a HMO except so far as concerns Part 1 of Act (Housing standards/conditions and Improvement Notices etc.)
Consequently, Poppy's answer would apply even if two people per flat.

No you would have to look at the building as a whole first and decide if it would meet any of the tests in section 254 (which it doesn't) or section 257 (which it does). Example, as a pre 1991 converted building meets the section 257 criteria for certain converted blocks of flats, it will be a HMO. Taking that the conversion was pre 1991 it would be a HMO by definiton, and as long as it consisted of more than two households/two persons, schedule 14 wouldn't apply.


Surely a block of flats could be a HMO if it is not purpose built and does not conform to the 1991 Building Regulations? (eg converted prior to 1991?)

That is correct Wickerman.

[arusha]

Thanks for your help.

It is a house that was converted to three flats in the 60s so I think that it is a HMO as I am sure it doesn't meet 1991 building regs. However my understanding is that no additional and selective licencing is needed in Sheffield but this is set to change next year.

This year I am going to do some work to add a fourth flat in the loft and so this new flat will meet the building regs.

I am still a bit confused. Can I avoid this whole question by putting only four people in the building (i.e. single people only in each flat)? How come it is ok to put 2 people in the flats Jeffrey? I would have thought if the number reached five it would be a HMO and therefore when the new rules come in this year in Sheffield then I will be affected. (P.s. I think you have done some conveyancing work for me already Jeffrey, I will be back in touch if I sell any of the flats.)

I am also still confused about whether you need a licence per flat or per building? Will my new flat in the loft that will meet building regs not need a licence or will it be a case of the whole building doesn't meet building regs therefore I need a licence for the whole building.

I will contact the council now as I suppose the answers to my questions are specific to Sheffield. I'll put an update on this thread when I know more in case people are interested.

[red40]

Thanks for your help.
I am still a bit confused. Can I avoid this whole question by putting only four people in the building (i.e. single people only in each flat)?

To avoid licensing yes, if you only have 4 persons in occupation it isn't licensable but it would still be a HMO by definition.




How come it is ok to put 2 people in the flats Jeffrey?

Because schedule 14(7) says so, but you would not be looking at each individual flat you would be looking at the building as a whole.


I would have thought if the number reached five it would be a HMO

As soon as you have 3 unrelated persons in occupation it becomes a HMO by definition.


I am also still confused about whether you need a licence per flat or per building?

A licence is per property.


Will my new flat in the loft that will meet building regs not need a licence

Not if it is only on one storey.

All the answer above relate to mandatory licensing.

[piglet3]

Not if it is only on one storey.

All the answer above relate to mandatory licensing.
Thanks - very good thread.
Can you elaborate on lofts particularly - are there special requirements - on one storey, 2nd fire escape?

When looking as the building as a whole, could one flat not converted to current regs class the whole building as an HMO by definition?

[red40]

When looking as the building as a whole, could one flat not converted to current regs class the whole building as an HMO by definition?

Its a very good question Piglet and one that is open to interpretation. Which for the purpose of licensing becomes very confusing and really needs further guidance.

With regards to your question as I understand it, that is correct. If the whole building was converted and completed to building regs, it wouldn't be a HMO at all.

Having said that as part of the building doesn't have build. regs approval, it should be classed as a HMO to which sec257 applies, as it isn't a building that contains flats all to build regs approval.

The point that requires further clarification is that sec257 specifically says:-

(1) For the purposes of this section a "converted block of flats" means a building or part of a building which-

(a) has been converted into, and

(b) consists of, self-contained flats.

My interpretation is if it has part building regs approval for the self contained flats, those flats shouldn't be counted. But the current train of thought for may councils is that it applies to all the building.

Personally I would like an answer and not have to interpret what the Act says, but until its challenged in a court nobody will know the definitive answer.

[piglet3]

Because schedule 14(7) says so, but you would not be looking at each individual flat you would be looking at the building as a whole.


A licence is per property.

Is the building as a whole classified (under sec254) and not each flat? (which under sec257 are 'part of a building' (debatably interpreted as one or more flats not meeting building regs)? Isn't a flat a property?

The earler comment:
"Will my new flat in the loft that will meet building regs not need a licence?" Ans. not if on one storey. Did you mean the building or the loft flat (given the above).

Do lofts have extra regs requirements?

[red40]

Is the building as a whole classified (under sec254) and not each flat?

Section 254 doesn't come into it, as the OP states the property is 3 self contained flats therefore a sec257 HMO, he then intends to add a further self contained flat in the loft. The property is still a sec257 property and since its a sec257 HMO, mandatory licensing doesn't apply.