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View Full Version : White Goods and who is responsible, me or the LL?



Yasmeen
21-12-2011, 19:56 PM
Hello I am new here and have been having problems with my LL for a while and I have a question for private tenants.

Who is responsible for replacing a broken cooker, seeing that I am the one that uses it and not the tenants but it was there when I moved in and was already being used by them? I have pointed out that one of the rings have broken (it's a really old fashioned one with spiral rings) and with a large family, it's constantly being used.

My LL is refusing to replace it saying that it's my responsibility. I don't mind replacing it but just wanted to know where I stand. He is saying that I 'brought' it when I started renting his house, is that right? He is also asking me if it's fair that I should expect him to pay for a new one. I don't plan to be here for very long and am looking to move into a property that is fitted with gas cooking facilities. If I do buy a new electric one, I don't want the hassle of selling it to the LL or anyone else.

Would be grateful for your advice, thanks x

Snorkerz
21-12-2011, 20:01 PM
You refer to both tenants and landlord, so it is not clear whom you are.

Are you, maybe, renting a room in the property and the cooker is in the 'communal' kitchen that you share with other tenants?

Yasmeen
21-12-2011, 20:08 PM
You refer to both tenants and landlord, so it is not clear whom you are.

Are you, maybe, renting a room in the property and the cooker is in the 'communal' kitchen that you share with other tenants?

Thank you for the reply.

I am the tenant and have been here in this house for the past two years. I am privateky renting the entire house x

Snorkerz
21-12-2011, 20:15 PM
That makes it a little clearer - the first thing to clarify is what the tenancy agreement says about your cooker?

Yasmeen
21-12-2011, 20:33 PM
That makes it a little clearer - the first thing to clarify is what the tenancy agreement says about your cooker?

That is the problem, my tenancy agreement with my LL was emailed to me which I have now lost and if I mention it to them, they will simply send me a new one which exonerates them of any responsibility regarding white goods. The tenancy agreement from the local council does not mention white goods and who's responsible for their upkeep (to be honest I have not refered to it for a while, I will do that 1st thing tomorrow)

Snorkerz
21-12-2011, 20:49 PM
Why is there a tenancy agreement from the local council?

Yasmeen
21-12-2011, 21:01 PM
It's done via the council because I am on benefits and getting 100% housing benefit x

westminster
21-12-2011, 21:04 PM
Who is responsible for replacing a broken cooker, seeing that I am the one that uses it and not the tenants but it was there when I moved in and was already being used by them?
You say you're the tenant, so who are the tenants who were/are using the cooker?


I have pointed out that one of the rings have broken (it's a really old fashioned one with spiral rings) and with a large family, it's constantly being used.
So the problem is that one out of four rings is not working? i.e. 3 rings/grill/oven are working?


My LL is refusing to replace it saying that it's my responsibility. I don't mind replacing it but just wanted to know where I stand. He is saying that I 'brought' it when I started renting his house, is that right? What does the tenancy contract say about who is responsible?


The tenancy agreement from the local council does not mention white goods and who's responsible for their upkeep (to be honest I have not refered to it for a while, I will do that 1st thing tomorrow)

Is the LL a private LL or do you have a tenancy granted by the council? It can't be both.

westminster
21-12-2011, 21:07 PM
It's done via the council because I am on benefits and getting 100% housing benefit x

That doesn't mean that you have a tenancy contract with the council. Who is the landlord named on the tenancy contract? It's either X Council, or Mr or Mrs X.

mariner
22-12-2011, 02:34 AM
It could be property owners have granted Council a fixed term Lease to house Ts eligible for Council housing in exchange for repairs/grants
As westminster says we need to know who is named as LL on OPs TA and any clauses relating to repair of cooker/white goods. Is cooker described on move in inspection as fully functional?
A single non-fuctioning pan ring of 4? does not condemn the cooker as inoperable

Yasmeen
22-12-2011, 16:07 PM
You say you're the tenant, so who are the tenants who were/are using the cooker?

Oops, typing error. I am the only tenant using the cooker. Nobody else, The LLs were obviously using it before I moved in.


So the problem is that one out of four rings is not working? i.e. 3 rings/grill/oven are working?

Yes that is correct. 3 out of 4 rings are working. My pots are large (we are a family of 5 and they don't fit on the back burner)


What does the tenancy contract say about who is responsible?

There is no mention of white goods in my Tenancy Agreement. What are my rights in this instance?


Is the LL a private LL or do you have a tenancy granted by the council? It can't be both.

Yes you are right. The LLs are a Mr & Mrs K and the Council are involved, as the LLs have granted the council a fixed term lease to house me under the council housing scheme.

Snorkerz
22-12-2011, 16:23 PM
This is still not clear. It is unusual for a property owner to be involved with tenants if the property has been let to the council - the tenancy is then the councils issue.

We need to clarify your status before we can advise you correctly.

When you moved into this place, how did you find it? Did you respond to an advert in the newspaper etc? Or did the council say, "We have a house for you at 123 High Street"?

Yasmeen
22-12-2011, 16:28 PM
This is still not clear. It is unusual for a property owner to be involved with tenants if the property has been let to the council - the tenancy is then the councils issue.

We need to clarify your status before we can advise you correctly.

When you moved into this place, how did you find it? Did you respond to an advert in the newspaper etc? Or did the council say, "We have a house for you at 123 High Street"?

I responded to an advert that was placed on gumtree.com

Snorkerz
22-12-2011, 18:08 PM
I responded to an advert that was placed on gumtree.comOkay, becoming clearer. Once you had found the place, did you then sign up with the council for Housing Benefit?

Yasmeen
22-12-2011, 19:09 PM
Okay, becoming clearer. Once you had found the place, did you then sign up with the council for Housing Benefit?

I did, yes x

westminster
22-12-2011, 20:02 PM
Firstly, the cooker isn't 'broken' as in needing to be replaced if the only thing wrong with it is one of four rings not working. The issue is repairing the ring, not replacing the cooker.

I'm still unclear about the nature of the council's involvement, but assuming this is a private tenancy - an Assured Shorthold Tenancy under Housing Act 1988 in England/Wales - then the LL has no statutory/legal obligation to repair the cooker.

You say in the first post that you don't plan on staying there long. TBH, I would suggest just living with the inconvenience of 3 not 4 rings until you move on, or buy a portable/plug-in electric hob e.g. http://www.charliesdirect.co.uk/products/kampa-single-electric-hob

mariner
23-12-2011, 00:01 AM
westminster. If the charity is similar to one of my knowledge, the private LL effectively uses the Charity as a managing agent. The Charity only offers LL homeless or those in need of immediate re-housing eg battered wives, or in some areas husbands.
T pays rent to Charity who forwards it to LL, less agreed commission.
T & LLs only contact is via Charity re repairs & arrears etc. Unlike some Council schemes, LL does not sign house over to Charity for x years. LL can withdraw property on cessation of any T. That was my experience a few years ago.

Yasmeen
31-12-2011, 22:08 PM
OK guys here is an update.

Last summer when the LL agreed to fit a new kitchen, I decided to buy a new cooker and sell it to the LL when I leave the premises. The existing cooker is the one that has now broken, an elctric one which is extremely old and manky. It was so dirty when I moved in and one of the ovens did not work properly in that all my cakes turned out either raw in the middle or burnt around the edges. I have always used a gas cooker and so I asked if I could replace with a gas cooker of my choice. They agreed and I went ahead and ordered one from currys. The delivered it but when it came to connecting it, the installer/delivery man said that although my house is gas centrally heated, the gas piping behind the cooker and wall was so old and not safe to install a gas cooker. Also, new tubing and wiring would cost something like £400-500 so I decided against a gas cooker, had it sent back and stuck to the old electric one. I told my LL all of this.

In September this year, the LL came for an inspection as they were going abroad. They saw their old cooker still standing there when they saw the new fitted kitchen.

Up until now, I think they have forgotten about this cooker and have believed that I did indeed buy a new one, that is why they are refusing to fix or replace this one! They think it's mine, I brought it so I should replace it. I texted the LL a picture of the broken cooker ring.

However, a series of emails back and forth have now cleared up this misunderstanding but LL is, I think, relying on her British Gas Homecare Agreement to rectify the problem of the said cooker. Can BG do anything to fix this problem?

In a further email, the LL has said that she'll be back in the UK late February and will send someone round to check the gas fittings and will get me a gas cooker.

So it seems I will be getting my new cooker, gas or electric but we are both going to take another look at our contract and iron out any ambiguities but LL has accepted that white goods are her responsibilities.

Thank you for your help and advice x

mariner
31-12-2011, 22:34 PM
White goods are only resp of LL if LL purchased them. If you buy a new cooker, it won't be. As a LL I would not buy Ts white goods if offered, too much risk IMO

jjlandlord
01-01-2012, 16:29 PM
White goods are only resp of LL if LL purchased them. If you buy a new cooker, it won't be. As a LL I would not buy Ts white goods if offered, too much risk IMO

My understanding is that white goods are the responsibility of the landlord (re. Repairs) only if contract says so, even if he did provide them.

mariner
01-01-2012, 17:44 PM
Debateable point, JTL.

What if white goods listed on Inventory (LLs property) and AST is either
1 silent on repairs or
2 specifically excludes repairing liability for LL?

If T wants them, T buys them and is therefore resp for repairs.

jjlandlord
01-01-2012, 18:02 PM
What if white goods listed on Inventory (LLs property) and AST is either
1 silent on repairs or
2 specifically excludes repairing liability for LL?.

As per my previous post, IMO in both cases landlord is not responsible for repairs.
Inventory does not create a liability re. Repairs, IMO.

westminster
01-01-2012, 19:14 PM
Debateable point, JTL.

What if white goods listed on Inventory (LLs property) and AST is either
1 silent on repairs or
2 specifically excludes repairing liability for LL?
There is no statutory obligation for LL to repair white goods. It would have to be contractual, and it will depend on what it says in the contract/inventory (if it forms part of the contract), as to whether LL is liable.

mariner
02-01-2012, 00:51 AM
So I can supply white goods, listed on Inventory as my property, and I can deny LL repair obligations, unless specifically referred to in AST under LL resp? What if AST is equally silent on T repair resp?

jjlandlord
02-01-2012, 11:02 AM
what if AST is equally silent on T repair resp?

My understanding is that tenant would actually have no repair obligation either.
But imo deposit schemes' adjudicators might decide that tenant should return item in same working condition as listed in inventory...

In most cases it makes sense for the landlord to ensure that items are repaired, and by professionals. So either to pay or to split the cost.