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Evergreen
14-12-2011, 14:15 PM
I have to serve an s21 on a tenant today

Tenancy start date: 1st Aug 2011
Tenancy end date: 31st Jan 2012

If I serve it today, it should expire on the 17th Feb right?

Thats 2 months and a few days allowed for postage

Thansk in advance.

sidfletcher
14-12-2011, 17:49 PM
Yes - it's a fixed term notice.

I'm about to ask an identical question on dates in this forum- except mine got thrown out by the court when I applied for possession and I believe wrongly...

See if I get any replies.....

Snorkerz
14-12-2011, 18:53 PM
If served by first class postage it is considered served 2 working days after posting.

So, if you did post it today then an expiry date of "after 17th February 2011" would be fine (could have had 16, not 17, but 17 is fine)
If you post it tommorrow, it will not be considered served until Monday 19th, so the expiry will be "after 19th February 2011"

Evergreen
14-12-2011, 20:04 PM
Thanks for the email reply

However, i have been reading some threads on here, what once the contract ends, its turns pedriodic and should be expiring on the month end of the contact for that month

For example, this should expire after the 29th Feb 2012 - as the contracts ends on the 31st Jan 2012

Can someone shed some light on this?

Paul_f
14-12-2011, 20:35 PM
No its not periodic yet, so it's two months from when it's deemed served if served during the fixed term, as Snorkerz states.

You should say in your AST how Notices are deemed served if posted otherwise you would have to serve it personally on your tenant.

A tip is that when you serve a Notice during the fixed term which does not become effective until after the fixed term has expired, leave off the date and just say "two months from the date of service" which means you can start court action (if you have to) as soon as you have satisfied yourself that you have allowed two clear months before you do it.

Snorkerz
14-12-2011, 20:55 PM
A tip is that when you serve a Notice during the fixed term which does not become effective until after the fixed term has expired, leave off the date and just say "two months from the date of service" which means you can start court action (if you have to) as soon as you have satisfied yourself that you have allowed two clear months before you do it.Contrary to many on this forum, I too have taken this stance on these very pages.

However, there appears to be a least one judge who will not accept an s21(1)(b) application before the end of the fixed term - albeit he was having a bad day ;)
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?43460-Section-21-struck-out!!-Help

In the past I have been swayed by an argument that the date of submission is irrelevant, just that the judge can not order possession before the end of the fixed term. However, I think it is that the judge can not order possession before the end of the fixed term because s21(1)(a) has the requirement that the AST must have come to an end when the court makes it's order.

Evergreen
15-12-2011, 09:37 AM
Ok, yes i understand how the fixed s21s work now
I have to do another eviction today (seems like lots of people are falling into arrears)
This one is a periodic AST
The contract started on the 10th May 2011 and eneded on the 9th Nov 2011
So i'm serving an s21 periodic
What date should it expire after, to make it valid?

Snorkerz
15-12-2011, 11:44 AM
Ok, yes i understand how the fixed s21s work now
I have to do another eviction today (seems like lots of people are falling into arrears)
This one is a periodic AST
The contract started on the 10th May 2011 and eneded on the 9th Nov 2011
So i'm serving an s21 periodic
What date should it expire after, to make it valid?

If served by hand before 4:30 on 9th January 2012 or by (1st class) post no later than 7th January 2012 it will expire "after 9th March 2011" - the word after is crucial and this assumes rent due monthly.

Evergreen
15-12-2011, 18:43 PM
Thank you snokerz

You mention 'rent due monthly'

However, my rent are due every 4 weeks, and it states this on the contract (for housing benefit reasons)

Would this play a role in altering dates?

jjlandlord
15-12-2011, 18:49 PM
However, I think it is that the judge can not order possession before the end of the fixed term because s21(1)(a) has the requirement that the AST must have come to an end when the court makes it's order.

I agree. s.21 is actually quite clear on that.

In addition, in my opinion it would seem nonsensical for a court to even accept a submission before the fixed term has expired... Old debate ;-)

jjlandlord
15-12-2011, 18:51 PM
A tip is that when you serve a Notice during the fixed term which does not become effective until after the fixed term has expired, leave off the date and just say "two months from the date of service" which means you can start court action (if you have to) as soon as you have satisfied yourself that you have allowed two clear months before you do it.

I don't see any difference between "2 months from the date of service" and writing down the actual date: It's the same expiry date either way.

Paul_f
15-12-2011, 20:46 PM
Not necessarily. The reason is that without a date you won't make a mistake by putting on one that it too early.

jjlandlord
15-12-2011, 21:26 PM
Not necessarily. The reason is that without a date you won't make a mistake by putting on one that it too early.

I see. So yes it's potentially the same effective date, but at least you're sure to get an effective date which is valid wrt. the minimum of 2 month notice.

Thanks for clarifying, I wrongly thought you meant that it somehow impacted the court proceedings.

Good tip ;)

Snorkerz
15-12-2011, 22:53 PM
If served by hand before 4:30 on 9th January 2012 or by (1st class) post no later than 7th January 2012 it will expire "after 9th March 2011" - the word after is crucial and this assumes rent due monthly.


Thank you snokerz

You mention 'rent due monthly'

However, my rent are due every 4 weeks, and it states this on the contract (for housing benefit reasons)

Would this play a role in altering dates?

Yes, it makes a huge difference. In this case the date would be "after 29th February 2012" but must be served by 29th December.

You do realise you can't use section 8, ground 8, if rent is paid 4 weekly?

Evergreen
16-12-2011, 08:54 AM
Sorry Snokerz, I'm very confused

Can you just explain to me why the date has moved from the 9th march to the 29th feb?

Mrs Mug
16-12-2011, 10:17 AM
Can you just explain to me why the date has moved from the 9th march to the 29th feb?

Because you have to serve the notice before 29th December.

Snorkerz
17-12-2011, 11:43 AM
There are multiple different tenancy dates in this thread (has it been merged?)

To get clarification on your queryin post #15 can you confirm:

Last agreement start date
Last agreement duration or end date if specfied
Rent frequency