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grafto
06-12-2011, 09:09 AM
Hi all,
We issued a section 8 to our tenant on grounds 8,10 and 11,we also served her a section 21 around a little later.

She since has paid the arrears just a week or so before the court date for the section 8 and therefore contested it and brought a barrister along on the day due to this the judge adjourned the hearing till Feb 09th 2012 as he was not aware she was going to contest it.

So on the same day at the court we submitted the papers and fee to the court to seek possesion via section 21 and are expecting the order within the next 2 weeks my question is what do we do regarding the hearing adjourned for Feb 9th for the section 8? do we just cancel it or will that give her a chance of claiming her costs back if we do stop the hearing due to the fact we already have a possesion order from the section 21?

Thanks in advance for any advice

Paul_f
06-12-2011, 13:18 PM
You need to provide start and end dates of the fixed term and whether the tenancy is now periodic. When did you serve the S.21 Notice.

There are lots and lots of threads on this subject and you could start by scrolling down to the end of this page. There are hundreds for you to look at and the FAQ section is also worth a visit.

grafto
06-12-2011, 14:37 PM
You need to provide start and end dates of the fixed term and whether the tenancy is now periodic. When did you serve the S.21 Notice.

There are lots and lots of threads on this subject and you could start by scrolling down to the end of this page. There are hundreds for you to look at and the FAQ section is also worth a visit.

Thanks for reply,

Tenant has been in for over 3 years and the tenancy is now periodic.

Section 21 was served 23/08/11 and expired 24/10/11,court papers were registered 09/11/11 i have looked to find the answer to my question but can not find it,so just need to know what i should do regarding sec 8 hearing if i get a sec 21 possesion order first,as i do not want to take the risk of having to pay her costs.

Thanks

jjlandlord
06-12-2011, 14:41 PM
so just need to know what i should do regarding sec 8 hearing if i get a sec 21 possesion order first,as i do not want to take the risk of having to pay her costs.

Imo, you should cancel the procedure stating the reason.
If you don't, the judge will find out about the possession order at the hearing and will probably not be pleased about the waste of time and resources, and then you might be at risk.

grafto
06-12-2011, 16:01 PM
Imo, you should cancel the procedure stating the reason.
If you don't, the judge will find out about the possession order at the hearing and will probably not be pleased about the waste of time and resources, and then you might be at risk.

Ok thanks for reply,

If we cancelled the section 8 hearing would that not give her reason to try to claim her costs?

Then again the only reason the hearing was adjourned to a later date was her not informing the judge that she was contesting the section 8.

mariner
06-12-2011, 16:41 PM
I would wait for s21 outcome before cancelling s8. Judge may decide s21 not valid for some reason, so OP would still have s8 hearing in Feb. OP was perhaps ill-advised to lodge s21 papers as I thought you could not have 2 sep repo hearings in progress at same time.

Paul_f
06-12-2011, 18:30 PM
Tenant has been in for over 3 years and the tenancy is now periodic.

Section 21 was served 23/08/11 and expired 24/10/11.ThanksI am concerned if you served this in time. Was it posted or hand delivered, if the former it would be invalid unless posted on 19th August at the latest. Why did you wait until the last minute? If it was hand delivered it would have to be there before 4.30 p.m. on 23rd.

grafto
06-12-2011, 20:39 PM
I am concerned if you served this in time. Was it posted or hand delivered, if the former it would be invalid unless posted on 19th August at the latest. Why did you wait until the last minute? If it was hand delivered it would have to be there before 4.30 p.m. on 23rd.

Hand delivered with with witness signature before 4.30pm

grafto
07-12-2011, 10:50 AM
I would wait for s21 outcome before cancelling s8. Judge may decide s21 not valid for some reason, so OP would still have s8 hearing in Feb. OP was perhaps ill-advised to lodge s21 papers as I thought you could not have 2 sep repo hearings in progress at same time.
We did advise the judge at the first sec 8 hearing that we were going to submit sec 21 papers to court he did not have a problem with it!

Snorkerz
07-12-2011, 11:26 AM
You may still need the section 8 hearing to recover the unpaid rent wich will accrue between now and the end of the tenancy.

Other members have enquired about the date of the last tenancy agreement to try and acertain if the s21 is valid.

Your chances of getting possesion via s21 before he hearing date are touch and go. The tenant has a fortnight to file a defence, that will take us up to Christmas. In view of the Xmas break, the judge is unlikely to look at the paperwork in the near future, and he is obliged to give the tenant at least 14 days notice to leave.

grafto
07-12-2011, 11:58 AM
Hi,
Sorry to be unclear but the sec 21 was valid i had it checked at the time,sec 21 papers were submited to court on the 9th of November and then the T was given to the 26th November to submit any reason why she could not move out(hardship etc,,)she has not done this.

So we are expecting to hear something in the next week or so,that is why we were wondering what to do with the sec 8 hearing which has been put back to the 9th of Feb.

She is also up to date now with the rent she was 4 months in arears but paid just before the first sec 8 hearing in November.

Darth Wookie
07-12-2011, 12:35 PM
Irrespective of timings etc being discussed, you initiated court action (s8) based on existing arrears at the time. If the tenant decided he/she was incapable of defending it themself, that was their decision. You issued the proceedings based on your evidence. Whenever one of my cases is booked, the tenant is warned beforehand that court costs will be charged. Even if they clear the arrears pre-hearing, I would expect them to pay these costs. If they refuse, I let the hearing go ahead. The judge invariably recognises that possession need not be granted, but that costs have been incurred in due process. (put simply, if it takes court action to make a tenant pay up, they've already gone too far.)
I have yet to have a tenant recieve costs.

grafto
07-12-2011, 13:38 PM
Irrespective of timings etc being discussed, you initiated court action (s8) based on existing arrears at the time. If the tenant decided he/she was incapable of defending it themself, that was their decision. You issued the proceedings based on your evidence. Whenever one of my cases is booked, the tenant is warned beforehand that court costs will be charged. Even if they clear the arrears pre-hearing, I would expect them to pay these costs. If they refuse, I let the hearing go ahead. The judge invariably recognises that possession need not be granted, but that costs have been incurred in due process. (put simply, if it takes court action to make a tenant pay up, they've already gone too far.)
I have yet to have a tenant recieve costs.


Thanks for that

grafto
12-01-2012, 12:05 PM
You may still need the section 8 hearing to recover the unpaid rent wich will accrue between now and the end of the tenancy.

Other members have enquired about the date of the last tenancy agreement to try and acertain if the s21 is valid.

Your chances of getting possesion via s21 before he hearing date are touch and go. The tenant has a fortnight to file a defence, that will take us up to Christmas. In view of the Xmas break, the judge is unlikely to look at the paperwork in the near future, and he is obliged to give the tenant at least 14 days notice to leave.

Hi,
I have gained possession order via section 21 and bailiffs have been instructed,i have therefore cancelled the section 8 hearing due on Feb 9 as it was no longer needed.(via fax as requested by court manager)

I have this morning received a solicitors letter from the tenant asking me to fill in a N279 form of notice of discontinuance as i think they are trying to claim the costs of the section 8 hearing.

Can anyone offer any advice?

Snorkerz
12-01-2012, 12:28 PM
Well, cancelling the s8 hearing was a mistake, as it was your opportunity to get the order for rent, and there is a good chance the tenant will claim his solicitors fees.

I'd phone the court to see if you can withdraw the request to cancel.

grafto
12-01-2012, 12:57 PM
Well, cancelling the s8 hearing was a mistake, as it was your opportunity to get the order for rent, and there is a good chance the tenant will claim his solicitors fees.

I'd phone the court to see if you can withdraw the request to cancel.

Already done and hearing is still on for Feb 9th as we have not filled in the N279 form yet.

Was just worried what judge would say if we turned up already having possession.

Would hearing enable us to claim costs from tenant?(rent is up to date)

Snorkerz
12-01-2012, 13:01 PM
At the hearing (which the tenant is not likely to attend) make your first statement to the judge that possession has been obtained and that you are there soley for the monetary aspects.

So long as the section 8 notice was validy served and that you had reason to commence the n5/n119 claim then I can see no reason why the judge would not be able to consider such an award.

grafto
12-01-2012, 13:08 PM
At the hearing (which the tenant is not likely to attend) make your first statement to the judge that possession has been obtained and that you are there soley for the monetary aspects.

So long as the section 8 notice was validy served and that you had reason to commence the n5/n119 claim then I can see no reason why the judge would not be able to consider such an award.

Thanks Snorkerz.

Is the N279 form the only way a court hearing can be cancelled and not by fax etc?

Snorkerz
12-01-2012, 13:30 PM
I think some courts are more strict than others, my local one (Swansea) tend to work with common sense. The one that covers my rental property (Blackpool) seems to stick to the rules very firmly, and even make its own as it goes along.

grafto
12-01-2012, 16:55 PM
I think some courts are more strict than others, my local one (Swansea) tend to work with common sense. The one that covers my rental property (Blackpool) seems to stick to the rules very firmly, and even make its own as it goes along.

Could you advise what type of costs i could claim apart from the £175 hearing fee,i never had a solicitor but did pay for my agent to attend?

Snorkerz
12-01-2012, 18:12 PM
No, you can apply for legal costs to be covered but your agent had no need to attend, he has no right of audience in the court. In the small claims track you can also apply for payment to cover your time in court (but that is limted - don't expect more than £40 - £50) and reasonable expenses - say the cost of posting anything to do with the claim, photocopying any evidence, travel expenses to the court. If you take confirmation of all these to the court - perhaps neatly tabulated etc so the judge can see what you are claiming and easily refer to the receipts etc then the judge can consider them. I would guess a possession hearing won't be limited in the same way as 'small claims' so list everything and let the judge decide.

grafto
12-01-2012, 18:16 PM
No, you can apply for legal costs to be covered but your agent had no need to attend, he has no right of audience in the court. In the small claims track you can also apply for payment to cover your time in court (but that is limted - don't expect more than £40 - £50) and reasonable expenses - say the cost of posting anything to do with the claim, photocopying any evidence, travel expenses to the court. If you take confirmation of all these to the court - perhaps neatly tabulated etc so the judge can see what you are claiming and easily refer to the receipts etc then the judge can consider them. I would guess a possession hearing won't be limited in the same way as 'small claims' so list everything and let the judge decide.

Thanks again

grafto
09-02-2012, 17:01 PM
No, you can apply for legal costs to be covered but your agent had no need to attend, he has no right of audience in the court. In the small claims track you can also apply for payment to cover your time in court (but that is limted - don't expect more than £40 - £50) and reasonable expenses - say the cost of posting anything to do with the claim, photocopying any evidence, travel expenses to the court. If you take confirmation of all these to the court - perhaps neatly tabulated etc so the judge can see what you are claiming and easily refer to the receipts etc then the judge can consider them. I would guess a possession hearing won't be limited in the same way as 'small claims' so list everything and let the judge decide.

Hi,
We had hearing today and were awarded costs by the judge,the tenant has agreed to pay in full over the next 5 months. hopefully this will be thecase but if they do not pay what is the next course of action?

Snorkerz
09-02-2012, 18:49 PM
This newspaper article goes through the options - it is specifically about small claims, but the same would apply to a section 8. http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/nov/20/small-claims-court-enforce-judgment

grafto
09-02-2012, 20:50 PM
This newspaper article goes through the options - it is specifically about small claims, but the same would apply to a section 8. http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/nov/20/small-claims-court-enforce-judgment

Thanks yet again.