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View Full Version : L wants T to surrender early, what is fair compensation?



Pelican eats pigeon
30-11-2011, 23:46 PM
Hi, long time no see...

Interesting situation here.

L has agreed the sale of a property inhabited by T. There is currently an AST with a few more months to run with a valid 2 month break clause. The sale is due to complete soon after the new year and has vacant possession as a condition.

Unfortunately the managing agents have cocked up and failed to give T notice when they were instructed to, and have only just got round to it. If T now remains in the property till the end of the notice period, the sale is likely to fall through. As you can imagine, both L and T are extremely annoyed with the person at the agency who is responsible for this.

T has no real desire to move out, and is unlikely to want to spend the Christmas and New Year period flat-hunting unless they are made a very attractive offer. What sort of offer would folks here consider reasonable under these circumstances?

As an alternative, it may be possible to delay the sale by a couple of weeks in order to come to an arrangement where T can look for somewhere new at a slightly less antisocial time (i.e. when people are back at work). Obviously it will still be necessary to compensate T in this situation, but possibly the offer required would be slightly less prohibitive. What would people consider reasonable?

Background info: the property is a 3 bed flat in suboptimal condition, occupied by 3 joint tenants in a middling part of London. T has been living there for 4 years and has till now had a good relationship with A but no contact with L.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts any of you might have on this one!

theartfullodger
01-12-2011, 06:01 AM
If I were Tenant, start at £10k

Snorkerz
01-12-2011, 12:13 PM
In view of the fact that T could stay in the property for months even if the correct notice had been given, I think artfuls suggestion is about right.

Sometimes being creative can help - I'll pay for a holiday to the Seychelles for you and your family will sound much more attractive to some than a cold cash offer.

Mrs Mug
01-12-2011, 12:25 PM
At the very least the landlord should pay all of the costs associated with the tenants moving to a new property.

That would include all letting agency fees, first months rent, deposit, removal van cost etc.

Brb
01-12-2011, 12:31 PM
LOL I could not ask for 10k with a straight face!!

If only a couple of months left on agreement I would be happy enough with all fees paid for new property and removal firm packing old place and moving it all. Moving is stressful so if someone else was to pay for me merely having to watch others doing all the hard work I'm happy.

All depends on the T really.

Pelican eats pigeon
01-12-2011, 21:51 PM
Thanks for the replies so far!

I don't think T is going to ask for as much as £10k, and I have the feeling everybody wants to come to an amicable solution.

From speaking to T it seems unlikely they'll be able to move out by the planned completion date but may be able to if it's delayed by a week or two. In that case, it looks like the least they'll accept are all agency/admin fees at any new property to be paid, plus removal costs, early return of deposit so they can put it down on the new place and possibly a week or two's rent on top.

Does this sound reasonable?

theartfullodger
01-12-2011, 22:29 PM
Hope Tenant is reading this thread & has begun to realize the strength & value of his position

Pelican eats pigeon
01-12-2011, 23:00 PM
As T is a family friend I'll be sure to make them aware of that, I am not directly acquainted with any of the parties involved. I just don't get the impression T wants to be excessively demanding or awkward.

I'm also not sure how much of a disaster it is for L if the sale doesn't go through, L has a number of properties and doesn't urgently need the cash as far as I'm aware so I suspect a huge demand by T will just cause L to pull out of the sale and put the flat back on the market, it's in an area where it will attract interest.

mind the gap
01-12-2011, 23:18 PM
Hello, Pelican. Where've you been for the last 3 years? You've missed all the excitement.

Pelican eats pigeon
01-12-2011, 23:36 PM
Hello, Pelican. Where've you been for the last 3 years? You've missed all the excitement.

Hello hello, I've been abroad most of the time so England and Wales letting questions haven't been at the forefront of my mind!

What kind of excitement's been going on here? I trust everyone's well?

mind the gap
01-12-2011, 23:47 PM
Hello hello, I've been abroad most of the time so England and Wales letting questions haven't been at the forefront of my mind!

What kind of excitement's been going on here? I trust everyone's well?

I can only speak for myself, but yes thank you, very well!

As for the excitement...it's a long story.

Pelican eats pigeon
02-12-2011, 00:16 AM
As for the excitement...it's a long story.

I'm intrigued now, what's been happening? Agent46 and Lawcruncher engaged in insanely complicated litigation no-one understands over a flippant remark one of them made? Jeffrey actually killed someone with one of his awful puns?

mariner
02-12-2011, 02:11 AM
Back to post #1

I would suggest reasonable comp for T would be-
1 month current rent
All removal transport costs within local area say 20 mile radius
All agency/credit & ref check fees for new T
Full return of deposit for current Tenancy
Agree Move out date for 6 weeks after agreement(split LL & T Notice period)

Ericthelobster
02-12-2011, 08:19 AM
I'm intrigued now, what's been happening? Agent46 and Lawcruncher engaged in insanely complicated litigation no-one understands over a flippant remark one of them made? Jeffrey actually killed someone with one of his awful puns?Not so far off the mark actually... the forum nearly imploded back in March - if you have an hour or six spare, try reading:
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?38319-mtg-banned
and even(!)
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3229366

Pelican eats pigeon
07-12-2011, 20:58 PM
Wow, that was an interesting and lengthy read. In any case, good to see that MTG can still post on here! I'd have lent my support had I been around.

Back to the situation: T has apparently still been dealing with the agents, who are being difficult and using emotional blackmail to try and get T to leave early. T is not at all impressed and I have advised them to complain to ARLA (agent is ARLA member).

T is considering dealing directly with L, T insists that L knows the situation but I suspect A may have been attempting to keep everything hidden from L and pretending everything is OK. I have advised T to speak to L exclusively but T is reluctant as they have never had a line of communication with L before.

In any case, T is fed up of being messed around and won't leave unless a very good offer is made, the only one hinted at so far by A has been derisory.

mind the gap
07-12-2011, 21:17 PM
Wow, that was an interesting and lengthy read. In any case, good to see that MTG can still post on here! I'd have lent my support had I been around.



Thank you! You would have been in very good company.

Pelican eats pigeon
15-12-2011, 20:24 PM
Little update here:

Looks likely that the sale will be delayed until after expiry of the S21.

One interesting thing in the latest email that's been shown to me, A has said that if T doesn't leave by the expiry of the S21 they will be 'breaking the law' and has also said that L would be likely to pursue T for any consequential losses.

T doesn't currently intend to stay beyond the expiry, but I'd not ever heard this before and was just wondering if it was strictly true/possible?

jta
15-12-2011, 20:30 PM
Little update here:


One interesting thing in the latest email that's been shown to me, A has said that if T doesn't leave by the expiry of the S21 they will be 'breaking the law' and has also said that L would be likely to pursue T for any consequential losses.

T doesn't currently intend to stay beyond the expiry, but I'd not ever heard this before and was just wondering if it was strictly true/possible?

It's a completely empty threat. Tenant is entitled to stay until the bailiff puts them out, even then there is no criminal matter involved.

Pelican eats pigeon
15-12-2011, 20:34 PM
I was more thinking about the consequential losses side of things as I've never heard anyone trying that!

theartfullodger
15-12-2011, 20:35 PM
.............

One interesting thing in the latest email that's been shown to me, A has said that if T doesn't leave by the expiry of the S21 they will be 'breaking the law' and has also said that L would be likely to pursue T for any consequential losses.
..........

Take it A is agent:

Interesting viewpoint, not sure I'd agree.

My view, as a Landlord, would be that...

By issuing a S21 notice the Landlord/(his agent..) is (starting the) exercising their absolute legal right to end the tenancy.

By declining to leave on S21 expiry date the Tenant would be exercising their absolute legal right to await court process, including, of course, any decision as to the validity of the S21 anyway..

Does the agent think the Landlord can sue agent for consequential losses from, say...
a) Serving S21 incorrectly or with wrong dates??
b) LL taking A's daft advice and losing out???

jta
15-12-2011, 20:38 PM
I was more thinking about the consequential losses side of things as I've never heard anyone trying that!

Any consequential losses are part of the joy of being a landlord. It would be better to dangle a carrot than wave a big stick.