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rjabse
27-10-2011, 14:08 PM
Hi all,

The wife and I are about to be new Landlords, having just bought a flat for our daughter and her boyfriend to rent from us.

I was looking at the Landlord Registration website just now, and noticed that it says that registration is exempt if the property is "let to members of the landlord's family only ". Does this apply to us ?, or does it not because of the boyfriend ?

Would making the Tenancy agreement between us and just our daughter help ?

(I had posted the same question on 'Residential Landlord' forums, but was advised that I was more likely to get a response on this Scottish forum :(think):)

theartfullodger
27-10-2011, 16:16 PM
Welcome to LLZ rjabse: Like the flag (who wouldnae....??)

Interesting: Not something I'd looked at before..

I can't find where this is laid out in the legislation (had a quick look in "Antisocial.. (Scotland) Act 2004 which brought in LL registration..

This Scottish govt website..
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Built-Environment/Housing/privaterent/landlords/registration/who
say...



Who is exempt?Exemptions apply to properties rather than to people.


..........

A property is exempt from registration if it is:t...........
let to members of the landlord's family only (as defined by s.108 of the Housing ( Scotland ) Act 2001)



If you check "family" daughter is fine (see..

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2001/10/section/108
)

& in your shoes I'd be uncomfortable about the "only"...

Clearly the Sheriff might decide, were this ever to get to court, that boyfriend was always someone you were effectively renting to, even if tenant was just daughter, if it were clear you knew he'd be there..... Further, people change, partners change, lodgers are acquired, so I would recommend registering anyway, if only "just in case" ..

Also if daughter moves out sudden you'd be registered and sorted for the next tenant: It is an offence (criminal) to advertise a property (even only to one human) if not registered or not applied for registration - although I understand it is estimated there are 000's of unregistered properties..

The fine for not registering just increased to a max of £50k (I was at a LandlordAccreditationScotland/ TC Young update seminar in Glasgow on legislation updating..) so the downside could be considerable (in theory..).


If you want a qualified answer to rely on try TC Young solicitors or SaL
http://www.scottishlandlords.com/
- SaL answer questions from members..

As you're just starting I'd strongly suggest joining SaL (£90??) & doing the (free) LandlordaccrediationScotland courses.. It's a minefield ...

(No offence) but my view is only ever let to someone who you are quite prepared to evict, through the courts, with the local papers printing all the details.. If not you are writing a very very large blank cheque. Alternatively let the place to someone else (normal, commercial deal) and support daughter & B/F in another place with someone else their landlord..

Got Gas safe certificate?? Got Landlord insurance?? Done an inventory & loads of photos?? Understand about need to be able to prove you served AT5 before Tenancy is signed?? Aware of the impending deposit registration schemes? ?Know about PRHP notice?? If you are not aware of the implications of the answers to those questions I'd 'umbly suggest a little education...



This morning I signed the paperwork with a new tenant, moving in Monday (we both hope..) I now have 8 documents, all countersigned by tenant (who also has copies), that I may need to use in future, plus we both have a CD with loads of photos of the place..

Best of luck: Welcome to the fun world of property letting...

rjabse
27-10-2011, 17:54 PM
Thanks for a most comprehensive response 'Artfullodger'.

I think you are right about registration and will sort that out soon.

Your advice about not renting to family is not new to me - I've read it in several other places too, but I'm afraid SWMBO has her mind set, and who am I to argue. Fingers crossed it doesn't all go pear shaped in the future:=(:

Thanks for the link to SAL too. I had a quick look and it looks like it might be worthwhile joining.

The following paragraph interested (or should I say, worried) me.


Got Gas safe certificate?? Got Landlord insurance?? Done an inventory & loads of photos?? Understand about need to be able to prove you served AT5 before Tenancy is signed?? Aware of the impending deposit registration schemes? ?Know about PRHP notice?? If you are not aware of the implications of the answers to those questions I'd 'umbly suggest a little education...



This morning I signed the paperwork with a new tenant, moving in Monday (we both hope..) I now have 8 documents, all countersigned by tenant (who also has copies), that I may need to use in future, plus we both have a CD with loads of photos of the place..


Gas Certificate - not yet, but will get one as soon as I get the keys.
Landlord Insurance - yes, already arranged.
Inventory - No, and didn't intend to - is that not just for furnished flats ?
Loads of Photos - Haven't got the property keys yet, but hadn't considereed this (didn't think necessary since it's my own daughter, but a few photos wouldn't do any harm I suppose).
AT5 - was aware of this and was going to get it completed/signed at same time as tenancy agreement.
PRHP Notice - not a clue I'm afraid. Can you let me know more ? (or will I Google it)

Would you mind letting me know what the 8 documents you have for your new tenancy are ? And are these the documents that members can download from SAL ?

Sorry for all the questions - hope you don't mind sharing some of your extensive Landlord experience with a newby

theartfullodger
27-10-2011, 18:25 PM
Inventory - No, and didn't intend to - is that not just for furnished flats ?
- ah... so if tenant repaints lounge dark purple, sells cooker, burns all the carpets with iron.... Scottish Government is bringing in shortly (law already passed, awaiting regulations) deposit protection. Deposit will be held in a scheme. If there are disagreements then inventory/photos (at start & end, countersigned & dates by both parties...) may help.. Deposit protection will be mandatory (if there is a deposit) . Also to protect daughter should, say, you & wife die in car crash & property ends up owned by somebody else....


Loads of Photos - Haven't got the property keys yet, but hadn't considereed this (didn't think necessary since it's my own daughter, but a few photos wouldn't do any harm I suppose).
- ditto for deposit protection scheme..


AT5 - was aware of this and was going to get it completed/signed at same time as tenancy agreement.
Ah, - almost right: The key thing is that a SaT is only a SaT if you can prove you served an AT5 on T prior to tenancy being signed (& witnessed): Otherwise tenancy, regardless of what it says it is, is an AT. So SaL's template has date AND time. Get that done the, few minutes later, date & time tenancy... What is different about an AT?? With an SaT you can give tenant 3(?) months notice after end of initial fixed term and be pretty much guaranteed getting property back: with an AT if T keeps paying rent etc there's almost no way of getting them out. Think initial fixed term must be AT LEAST 6 months so don't make it (eg) 1st Nov 2011 to 31st May 2012 as T will move in (say) midday 1st Nov and it is less than 6 months: I make my initial fixed terms 7 months (tenants are confused...)


PRHP Notice - not a clue I'm afraid. Can you let me know more ? (or will I Google it)
http://www.prhpscotland.gov.uk/prhp/1.html
I understand there is a requirement to advise T about this..

Would you mind letting me know what the 8 documents you have for your new tenancy are ? And are these the documents that members can download from SAL ?

13 Actually (memory must be going..)..(SaL) where I think I got it from them (downloadable for members..)


- Holding deposit receipt (outline when it may or may not be returned - ie won't be returned if T changes mind)
- (SaL) Guarantee (not relevant for you - SWMBO perhaps as she's so confident???)
- (SaL) AT5
- (SaL) Repairing standard letter about PRHP ...
- (SaL) Key agreement (says I can keep spare keys and when I can use them..)
- Deposit receipt
- 1st Month's rent receipt..
- (SaL) Inventory
- (SaL) Notification of grounds of possession
- (Sal) Tenancy agreement: Requires a witness, not a relative:

(Then hand over keys...)

- email to electricity board, copy T, (and gas if relevant) with meter readings, follow up with hard-copy, keep copy, transfering accounts.
- email to council, copy T, re. council tax, ditto..
- email to local builder/handman, copy T, for emergency contact for urgent repairs (Rented House in Highlands, my domicile Ascot...)
- there's probably something else I should do..


Incidentally in your shoes I'd probably want rent paid via bank transfer, no cash, so both parties and show what is happening & council/DWP/benefits/HMRC are less likely to think fiddling is happening.. Council/DWP/benefits?? Well, if they have problems/issues (lose job, get sick, family crisis, children,.............) they may wish to claim various benefits (Housing benefit, council tax benefit, CTC/WTC...) and if the authorities think there is a "contrived" tenancy designed to get the benefit then they may well decline. Rent should be "market" rent not lower than comparable for same reason.. see...
http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/advice_topics/paying_for_a_home/housing_and_council_tax_benefit/housing_benefit_if_you_rent_from_a_family_member




Sorry for all the questions - hope you don't mind sharing some of your extensive Landlord experience with a newby

- flattery will get you everywhere.. I made loads of mistakes when I started (2000) - let's just say several Sheriff Court cases (me after ex-tenants), over £6k recovered & more to come.. Yup, learning now will save time & money later...

Best of luck!

rjabse
27-10-2011, 18:47 PM
Thanks again - lot's of useful advice there.

As you said earlier, I need a "little education" in these matters and you have given me a good start. Our main reason for doing this is to help our daughter out, we will be charging a market rent but that will still be less than our outgoings. I suppose we'll benefit in the end from any rise in the flat's value.