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Evergreen
13-10-2011, 11:22 AM
I have a house with planning to use as a B&B

Several questions if I may:

1. I'm allowed to offer licences right?
2. Whats the eviction procedure for this license?
3. I've heard they turn into ASTs after a period of time. What period of time would this be? 6 months plus?
4. Can someone msg me the correct license that i should be offering?

Thanks!!

theartfullodger
13-10-2011, 11:24 AM
You'll be resident in the property?? If not then depending on the deal & term it could be an AST.

Is this a "normal" B&B - people staying a couple of nights, maybe a week - or long-term residents staying months, maybe years??? (If so I'd think it a HMO not a B&B..).

Any Landlord can "offer" a license, question is, is it a license or is it actually a tenancy (therefore an AST) - see Street v Mountford...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_v_Mountford

ram
13-10-2011, 11:44 AM
If you are running a B+B, ASt's do not come into it ?

I suppose you can look at it , if you had to, as they are lodgers, and 24 hours
notice, and then call the police.

i would be leave any hotel or B+B if they thrust an AST under my nose.

45002
13-10-2011, 14:31 PM
Evergreen,Do you have C1 planning permission ?





SUMMARY GUIDE TO USE CLASSES ORDER AND PERMITTED CHANGES OF USE
Use Classes Order 1987
Description
Conditions (See Note 1)
including Amendments
Shops, retail warehouses, hairdressers, undertakers, travel and ticket agencies, post offices, pet shops, sandwich bars, showrooms, domestic hire shops, funeral directors etc.
No permitted change except to mixed use as a shop and single flat (see note 2) and vice versa
A1
Shops
Permitted change to A1 where a ground floor display window exists. Also as above to a mixed use as a single flat and A2 use and vice versa (see note 2)
A2
Banks, building societies, estate and employment agencies, professional and financial services, betting offices
Financial and Professional Services
A3
Restaurants, snack bars, cafes
Permitted change to A1 or A2
Restaurants and Cafes
A4
Pubs and bars
Permitted change to A1, A2, A3
Drinking Establishments
A5
Hot food takeaway
Permitted change to A1, A2, A3
Hot Food Takeaways
Permitted change to B8 where no more than 235m2
B1
Offices, not within A2
Business (a)
Permitted change to B8 where no more than 235m2
(b)
Research and development, studios, laboratories, high technology
Permitted change to B8 where no more than 235m2
(c)
Light Industry
B2
Permitted change to B1 or B8
General Industry
General Industry
B8 where no more than 235m2
(See Note 4)
Permitted change to B1
B8
Wholesale warehouses, repositories
where no more than 235m2
Storage or Distribution
C1
Hotels, boarding and guest houses
No permitted change
Hotels
C2
Residential schools and colleges, hospitals and convalescent/nursing homes
No permitted change
Residential Institutions
Use for a provision of secure residential accommodation, including use as a prison, young offenders institution, detention centre, secure training centre, custody centre, short term holding centre, secure hospital, secure local authority accommodation or use as a military barracks
C2A
No permitted change
Secure Residential Institution
Use as a dwelling house (whether or not as a sole or main residence by:
a) a single person, or by people forming a single household;
C3
b) not more than 6 residents living together as a single household where care is provided for residents: or
Permitted change to C4
Dwelling Houses
c) not more than 6 residents living together as a single household where no care is provided (other than a use within C4)
C4
Use of a dwelling house by not more than 6 residents as a house of multiple occupation (see note 4).
Houses in Multiple Occupation
Permitted change to C3
Places of worship, church halls, clinics, health centres, crèches, day nurseries, consulting rooms, museums, public halls, libraries, art galleries, exhibition halls, law court, Non residential education and training centres
D1
Non-residential
No permitted change
Institutions
Cinemas, music and concert halls, dance, sports halls, baths, skating rinks, gymnasiums. Other indoor and outdoor sports and leisure uses, bingo halls
D2
No permitted change
Assembly and Leisure
Theatres, houses in multiple paying occupation, hostels providing no significant element of care, scrap yards. Petrol filling stations and shops selling and/or displaying motor vehicles. Retail warehouse clubs, nightclubs, launderettes, dry cleaners, taxi businesses, amusement centres
No permitted change
Sui Generis
(See Note 3)
Permitted Change from Sui Generis to D2
Casinos
Notes: Last Updated 14 October 2010
1.
The Town and Country Planning (Use Classes) Order 1987 is the principal order which has been subject to a number of subsequent amendments. Changes within a specific class do not require planning permission provided that the use subsists, the planning permission exists and no restrictive condition is attached. The 2006 amendments moved casinos from D2 to Sui Generis, introduced C2A for secure residential institutions and law court as a D1 specified use. The 2010 amendments alter C3 and introduce a C4 use class. The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (Amendment) (No2) (England) Order 2010 (SI No 2134) introduced a permitted change from C3 to C4.
2.
Any operational development, such as effecting external appearance would, requires consent. Ground floor rooms with a shop window would need consent to change the whole or part of the ground floor for use as a single flat. For a further explanation see Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) Order 1995. 3
. Sui Generis is a use not within a specific class.
4.
Definition of a House in Multiple Occupation is as in Section 254 of the Housing Act 2004. Broadly this is when tenanted living accommodation is occupied as an only or main residence, where the occupiers are not related and share one or more basic amenity.

ram
13-10-2011, 15:52 PM
If you are running a B+B, ASt's do not come into it ?

I suppose you can look at it , if you had to, as they are lodgers, and 24 hours
notice, and then call the police.

i would be leave any hotel or B+B if they thrust an AST under my nose.

Modified to :-
I would be leaving any hotel or B+B if they thrust an AST under my nose, just
turn around and walk out.

Evergreen
13-10-2011, 18:02 PM
This is the exact permission from the website planning for this property:

Use of premises for up to six homeless persons living together as a single household.

So providing B&B for homeless people referred from council's emergency accommodation team.

This isnt C1 is it? More like C3 right?

Snorkerz
13-10-2011, 18:22 PM
The safety requirements fo B&B accommodation is usually much more stringent than HMO properties.

theartfullodger
13-10-2011, 18:30 PM
So if providing 6 persons with their own rooms (exclusive possesion) without resident landlord then I'd suggest that's AST land, even if the paperwork says different.

I've sat in a room with a hostel manager when the light started dawning over him as he realised that was the position he was in: IIRC a council-run hostel at that, which issued "licenses".

Bel
14-10-2011, 12:28 PM
This is the exact permission from the website planning for this property:

Use of premises for up to six homeless persons living together as a single household.

So providing B&B for homeless people referred from council's emergency accommodation team.

This isnt C1 is it? More like C3 right?

Ask the council what use it has

Sounds like a hmo to me. Doesn't state that breakfast is being provided.

Bel
14-10-2011, 12:34 PM
So if providing 6 persons with their own rooms (exclusive possesion) without resident landlord then I'd suggest that's AST land, even if the paperwork says different.

I've sat in a room with a hostel manager when the light started dawning over him as he realised that was the position he was in: IIRC a council-run hostel at that, which issued "licenses".

Sorry could you expand/rephrase the second paragraph?

If the "hostel" you describe comes within the remit of what a "proper" hostel is , then it won't be an AST. Bona Fide Hostels are usually run by councils or charities, for vulnerable people. They run on licences and can evict without a court order. I don't think it is possible for private business to set up and operate a proper hostel. Even if they can technically use a licence over an AST, they still require a court order to evict if the occupier will not leave.