House converted into flats

[sretosf]

I'm about to purchase a house from a family member that was converted into flats years ago (1970's). The flats have separate entrances, electricity meters, gas meters, central heating systems. They have not however been registered with the local council or the water board as separate residences.

I'm not intending to sell the properties on in the short term, but would like to know what I need to do to register the properties as separate residences if I do ever want to sell them please.

If my understanding is correct I don't need to worry about planning permission at this stage as they were converted years ago - but how do I prove this? Would electricity / gas records be sufficient? If so does anyone know if the gas / electricty companies would issue a statement saying how long there has been separate supplies at the property?

Any help that can be offered would be appreciated.

[scampicat]

Yes, I think separate utility bills may help as proof, but should they have been paying separate rates/council tax for all that time too? Don't know what you would do about that.

[sweetcharity]

This may or not be relevant so you will need to check it out but we own a three storey house which was previously 3 flats with seperate electricty, gas etc. When we bought it one family was living in it as one house but got seperate utility bills addressed to flat a/b/c. We have owned the house 6 years and this year decided to re-convert it into proper flats and rent them out. Despite the fact that they had been flats in had were still seperate in so much as they were registred as a, b & c and had seperate utilities, we still had to apply for planning permission & change of use and then because building regs have changed none of the existing walls, ceilings, windows, gas, electricty etc etc complied with current legislation. Consequently we have spent the last 10 month converting it to meet the current regs for flats which are very stringent. When it was occupied as flats before it wasn;t necessary to have so much sound proofing etc but now it has all changed and we have virtually rebuilt the whole place. When we bought the place we thought that as it already had seperate utlities etc it would be an easy job but we couldn't use any of the original stuff and had to start from scratch.
We are going to rent our places out but if you want to sell, you will need to produce planning permission for the original conversion which should be with the deeds. If you can't prove they were legally converted then you may need to get planning permission to convert. The fact that you have seperate utilitis doesn't make it a flat as it is perfectly legal to have seperate utilities in a shared house, shuch as when two or more generations share the same property.
not sure if that helped at all
good luck

[sretosf]

Thanks - that has helped.

[pdk]

You should apply for a Certificate of lawful development via the planning dept... You should have absolute proof of 4 years continuous use... My understanding is that the flats are fully self-contained so 4 years aplies... 10 years for all other uses!!!

Contact the planning Dept for forms...

Good luck!!!

PETER

NOTE: Peter Kyte BSC (Hons) DipTP MRTPI CGeog is an official LandlordZONE Topic Expert… For more information on Peter D Kyte Associates and Enabling Projects please see the websites at http://www.enablinguk.com and http://www.development-seekers.com. Any advice given by Peter Kyte in this Forum is of a general nature only and should not be taken to be a final and binding planning opinion. Based on any initial advice given you are strongly advised to seek a further professional opinion, which may involve a site visit and a detailed analysis of the issues... For information on the sort of work Peter undertakes please see TRACK RECORD (http://www.enablinguk.com/track.html), WORKING WITH INVESTORS (http://www.enablinguk.com/ur-property-investors-planning.html), and PROJECT TYPES (http://www.enablinguk.com/planning-project-permission-appeal-UK.html)...

[sretosf]

You should apply for a Certificate of lawful development via the planning dept... You should have absolute proof of 4 years continuous use... My understanding is that the flats are fully self-contained so 4 years aplies... 10 years for all other uses!!!

Contact the planning Dept for forms...

Good luck!!!

PETER

NOTE: Peter Kyte BSC (Hons) DipTP MRTPI CGeog is an official LandlordZONE Topic Expert… For more information on Peter D Kyte Associates and Enabling Projects please see the websites at http://www.enablinguk.com and http://www.development-seekers.com. Any advice given by Peter Kyte in this Forum is of a general nature only and should not be taken to be a final and binding planning opinion. Based on any initial advice given you are strongly advised to seek a further professional opinion, which may involve a site visit and a detailed analysis of the issues... For information on the sort of work Peter undertakes please see TRACK RECORD (http://www.enablinguk.com/track.html), WORKING WITH INVESTORS (http://www.enablinguk.com/ur-property-investors-planning.html), and PROJECT TYPES (http://www.enablinguk.com/planning-project-permission-appeal-UK.html)...

Thanks Peter

Ironically the only paperwork I have in my possesion at the moment that prove it has been converted for years are court papers for non paying tenants that refer to "the property known as the Upper Flat......" etc!!

[pdk]

How abpout stat decs from you and other people?? There is generally wider info you could use... how about electoral register??

Drop me a line if you need further help... PETER


NOTE: Peter Kyte BSC (Hons) DipTP MRTPI CGeog is an official LandlordZONE Topic Expert… For more information on Peter D Kyte Associates and Enabling Projects please see the websites at http://www.enablinguk.com and http://www.development-seekers.com. Any advice given by Peter Kyte in this Forum is of a general nature only and should not be taken to be a final and binding planning opinion. Based on any initial advice given you are strongly advised to seek a further professional opinion, which may involve a site visit and a detailed analysis of the issues... For information on the sort of work Peter undertakes please see TRACK RECORD (http://www.enablinguk.com/track.html), WORKING WITH INVESTORS (http://www.enablinguk.com/ur-property-investors-planning.html), and PROJECT TYPES (http://www.enablinguk.com/planning-project-permission-appeal-UK.html)...

[Bel]

Hi PDK

Will the person still have to upgrade building regs in the property, even if they can prove 4 years continuous use?

[pdk]

Both planning and building regs are seperate systems and you would have to do what is necessary on both.... fire protection, for instance is building regs but nothing to do with planning... Speak to you local council!!

PETER


NOTE: Peter Kyte BSC (Hons) DipTP MRTPI CGeog is an official LandlordZONE Topic Expert… For more information on Peter D Kyte Associates and Enabling Projects please see the websites at http://www.enablinguk.com and http://www.development-seekers.com. Any advice given by Peter Kyte in this Forum is of a general nature only and should not be taken to be a final and binding planning opinion. Based on any initial advice given you are strongly advised to seek a further professional opinion, which may involve a site visit and a detailed analysis of the issues... For information on the sort of work Peter undertakes please see TRACK RECORD (http://www.enablinguk.com/track.html), WORKING WITH INVESTORS (http://www.enablinguk.com/ur-property-investors-planning.html), and PROJECT TYPES (http://www.enablinguk.com/planning-project-permission-appeal-UK.html)...

[sretosf]

How abpout stat decs from you and other people?? There is generally wider info you could use... how about electoral register??

Drop me a line if you need further help... PETER




thanks Peter