Very short AST letting- six months or less?

[ivory]

has anything happened about the legislation that was due to make shorter leases possible? We are soon to complete on a house that our daughter will need to rent back from us in September, but we want to consider filling the gap with a short let through an agency. Fitting in a 6 month-er is likely to be a bit too tight. Are shorter lets permitted/offered?

[P.Pilcher]

You can certainly grant an AST for a shorter let than 6 months BUT you can't commence court action to reclaim your property under the accelerated procedure (section 21) until the 6 months is up should this be necessary.

P.P.

[eatonskjj]

Hi All,

I am in the process of completing on a new investment property however the current owner would like to rent it from me for a couple of months whilst he gets his new house decorated etc. We have agreed the cost etc but I am struggling to know what tennancy agreement to give the the person as the term is likely to be for two - three months I understand that an AST is only for six months?

What sort of agreement can I put in place here to protect myself and the tennant?

Thanks for your help

Stuart

[Paula]

Hi, you will need a six-month AST as this is the legal minimum for this type of tenancy. However, you could put a breakclause in the AST requiring one month's notice from the tenant to terminate the agreement early.

Not sure if this is valid - anyone else? Paula :)

[zoe]

You can use an AST still and just agree to terminate early. Legally though you will not be able to force the tenant to leave until after the six months have expired and then through the courts only.

[Paul_f]

Here we go again! Zoe's partly right in that the landlord can't begin court proceedings to repossess a property until after 6 months have elapsed BUT Paula needs to thumb through Smith & Evans or another good lettings book soon.

I will put this in UPPER CASE, LARGE TYPE and DEEP RED and underline it so you can commit it to memory:

THERE IS NO MINIMUM TERM FOR AN AST :mad:

[Wickerman]

Hi there,

I have a student property that has a vacant room. This room has a student signed up from 1st Sept 2005.

I also have a student interested in the room now, for the next 2-3 months.

The questions are:

1) What is the most appropriate tenancy agreement for this short period(Holiday let, license etc) (obviously NOT an AST!)

2) Where can I get one online (for free, ideally, but failing that for a reasonable amount)

3) What are the legal implications of a tenant not wanting to move out at the end of the tenancy agreement period? How will I be able to get the tenant out?

All help is appreciated.

[Paul_f]

Hi there,

I have a student property that has a vacant room. This room has a student signed up from 1st Sept 2005.

I also have a student interested in the room now, for the next 2-3 months.

The questions are:

1) What is the most appropriate tenancy agreement for this short period(Holiday let, license etc) (obviously NOT an AST!) Sorry! It must be an AST.

2) Where can I get one online (for free, ideally, but failing that for a reasonable amount)If you're patient enough, and are preapred to trawl a search engine you will find them. Most will be in word or html format, but if any are in pdf, save it in Acrobat, download a demo version of a pdf to html converter (or if you have Word 2000, ME etc. then there's a free programme), open the file in the converter programme, select it, and drag it into wordpad (not Word as it doesn't work). Make sure you don't infringe any copyrights!

3) What are the legal implications of a tenant not wanting to move out at the end of the tenancy agreement period? How will I be able to get the tenant out? You won't be able to evict for 6 months from the commencement!!!!

All help is appreciated.
So not much of a solution!

[Paul_f]

It's not a case of what you think you are creating, or what you want to create, it's what you are actually doing so in law that counts.

[charger]

Hi
As i am aware of, a 6 months Ast contract is already a kind of short let agreement, but what about the three months one ?
Is that legally accepted ?

Also please i would like to ask about the notice to "end the tenancy".
We all know that normally a landlord must give two months notice to end the tenancy if the rent is paid monthly with one month deposit; What about if the rent is paid weekly or every 15 days ...
Do I still have to give two months notice ?

My question arise from the fact that i might be selling the property in 5/6 months time, therefore at the moment i would like the new tenants to sign the Ast for three months only. On top of that, to make sure that they will leave at the right time, i will make them sign the Section 21 which i will serve at the right time;
ie : "3 months contract" signed on the 6th of december, expiring the 6th of march, section 21 served the 6th of January ( two months before with 6 months Ast) but obviously it all changes if the rent is paid weekly, therefore the end of tenancy can be signed by the tenant one month before only ?

Well, that's just an idea and as i said i am not sure if i can do that.
Any suggestions please ?

[MrShed]

You can have a 3months fixed term for an AST, but you cannot evict with Section 21 until at least 6 months, and so if the tenants choose not to leave but pay you rent, you can do nothing until after 6 months.

Thje notice periods do change with different rent periods, but I am not the person to tell you about that I'm afraid!

[charger]

Hi Mr Shed

So better not to rent the property out at all ?
I might sell the house in 5/6 months time, how can i make sure they'll leave at the right time ?

[MrShed]

I would have a 3 months AST, but serve a section 21 now to expire at the end of 6 months....if you are going to be selling in about 5 months time, then as long as you get a tenant ASAP, then a month isn't all that long, plus about 2 weeks to get them out if they resist eviction - could be longer I forget. Just sell the house on the basis that completion cannot be confirmed until the tenants leave....or sell the house with the tenants?

[Energise]

"What about if the rent is paid weekly or every 15 days ..."

8 Weeks

"3 months contract" signed on the 6th of December, expiring the 6th of march, section 21 served the 6th of January ( two months before with 6 months Ast)"

Even if you could get an eviction after 3 months (which you cant) that notice would be served too late to be valid [search Paul_f Question time S.21 for why]

[charger]

Have sold the 1st Hmo property 3 days ago, complete with all fire doors, alarms, proper ventilation and fire blankets....
The tenants were given 1 month notice as their contract were all expired after 6 months>.

I am about to sell another property, (at the moment empty) and meanwhile to cover part of the mortgage till it sells, i would like to put two or three tenants in the property, with short let contract or with no contract at all.
Can i do this legally ? Two potential tenants have already approached me and i clearly told them that the house is going to be sold and they do not mind.>

How would it be considered this type of tenancy ? Just an invitation for the tenants to stay in the house until I get the communication from the estate agent that the buyer has exchanged and we are going towards completion, therefore giving one month notice again and expecting the tenants to move whitin a month ?
If no contract is given and the tenants agree, are we not tied by the landlord and tenancy law ?
These people don't seem to be too much concerned about laws ; They are australian and american who are just doing courses and studies in London for a couple of months.

I appreciate you opinion on this please ...

[Ericthelobster]

Have sold the 1st Hmo property 3 days ago, complete with all fire doors, alarms, proper ventilation and fire blankets....
The tenants were given 1 month notice as their contract were all expired after 6 months.They should have been given 2 months anyway.


I am about to sell another property, (at the moment empty) and meanwhile to cover part of the mortgage till it sells, i would like to put two or three tenants in the property, with short let contract or with no contract at all.
How would it be considered this type of tenancy ? Just an invitation for the tenants to stay in the house until I get the communication from the estate agent that the buyer has exchanged and we are going towards completion, therefore giving one month notice again and expecting the tenants to move whitin a month ?
If no contract is given and the tenants agree, are we not tied by the landlord and tenancy law ?Yes you are; and in fact by not giving them a tenancy agreement you may find you're giving them more rights than if you had set it up properly.


These people don't seem to be too much concerned about laws ; They are australian and american who are just doing courses and studies in London for a couple of months.Great - all fine and dandy until they meet a mate who does know about the law, and tells them what their rights are... then you could find yourself with a full blown eviction on your hands, which could take months.

When I was selling a rental property recently I looked into letting on a short-term basis for a similar reason to you - existing tenant had moved out, but it was a bad time of year to sell; shortly before Xmas and I wanted to wait until Spring to sell. The only option was to find a tenant who only wanted to stay for a short period - 3-4 months, say - and to trust them to move out when we agreed. You cannot legally set up an AST for less than 6 months, so there would be zero chance of having them evicted until 6 months were up. I decided not to take the risk, and took the hit in terms of 3 months' lost rent off the sale price of the house instead.

My only thought is to whether you could let short-term as a 'holiday let', but I really don't know how that works. I suspect that a sticky tenant could successfully contest it in court and claim that they were on a normal residential tenancy but the nasty, evil, unscrupulous, conniving swine of a landlord forced them into signing a holiday let instead...

[Energise]

Originally Posted by Ericthelobster; You cannot legally set up an AST for less than 6 months

I believe that was changed in the 1996 amendments Eric, the only problem with a short term tenancy is there is no legal remedy to end it for the 1st 6 months.



Originally Posted by charger; If no contract is given and the tenants agree, are we not tied by the landlord and tenancy law ?

You take rent, they move in, they have a contract.

[charger]

I always give the right 6 Months AST agreement, but i can't do it in this case .
One thing that caught my attention when the environmental officer came to inspect my previous house to have the fire doors etc... fitted, was that if i do not give any agreement, i am okay with it and not bounded by any contract .
I think it is very simple and of course understandable people should not create any trouble .

I am wondering what is the best way to be right by law, and have a quick eviction in case somebody plays stupid and don't want to move when the time comes.
When a tenancy of six months expires, the tenancy then runs month by month, and only one month notice needs to be given to the tenants to move out, right ?
Why is it that i cannot establish a tenancy agreement that runs month by month from the beginning ?
Don't mean to be stubborn, i am trying to understand, but if it's too much risk i'd rather keep it empty.
Thank you

[Energise]

I always give the right 6 Months AST agreement, but i can't do it in this case .
One thing that caught my attention when the environmental officer came to inspect my previous house to have the fire doors etc... fitted, was that if i do not give any agreement, i am okay with it and not bounded by any contract .
He is wrong they will have a contract.
I think it is very simple and of course understandable people should not create any trouble .
I am wondering what is the best way to be right by law, and have a quick eviction in case somebody plays stupid and don't want to move when the time comes.
S.21 or S.8 for breach of terms
When a tenancy of six months expires, the tenancy then runs month by month, and only one month notice needs to be given to the tenants to move out, right ?
Wrong 2 months.
Why is it that i cannot establish a tenancy agreement that runs month by month from the beginning ?
Don't mean to be stubborn, i am trying to understand, but if it's too much risk i'd rather keep it empty.
Thank you

You can create a month to month tenancy but the tenant still cannot be evicted via the court for the first 6 months.

Why didnt you let the original tenants stay longer?

[Tweedle Dum]

Taking the point of view of a potential buyer, I would either demand vacant possession or insist that tenants had a legally binding contract. Bearing in mind the complexity of purchasing property with 2 mortgages involved I would think it a bit of a gamble to expect that your property may be vacated at exactly the right time.

[charger]

I spoke with the agent and he said to me that there are many buyers looking for tenanted properties, and they would not mind to buy the property already tenanted wth tenants having a 6 months contract; I guess that's the route i should go for ;
The area am in is an high rental demand one;

Thank you for your help, will get back on this when i get some more news, but have to say i have heard a lot about the two months;
Perhaps i should show to somebody the Kind of AST i have got where it says : The tenansy will run month by month after the 6th months AST expires. However it was downloaded by one of these Rip-Off property courses;
I am selling everything now, as i see that being a landlord in London, it is not an option i would choose again , unless it is in the north managed by the letting agents.

Cheers guys ##Talk you later

[lizzibee]

I am in the process of buying a flat. I don't want to move in immediately. There is a tenant living there at the moment. If on completion of the sale, I issue him with an assured shorthold tenancy am I protected?

He says he doesn't want to commit to 6 months. If I issue him with a three month agreement what notice will he have to give me. His current agreement is 60 days on either side, could I write this in to my agreement with him.
Your thoughts please

[P.Pilcher]

Your tenant's current assured shorthold tenancy agreement will continue after your purchase until it's fixed term expires unless he accepts a new one granted by you. Why not let it expire so it continues as a statutory periodic one, thus you can give your tenant 2 months notice if you need to, and your tenant can give one months notice if they wish to leave. If you grant a new AST, then, although it can be for as short a period as you like, you cannot use the courts to claim repossession for six months (having given 2 months notice). Don't believe the 60 days notice on either side business, it's not legally enforceable! You will have to give him two months notice.

P.P.

[Poppy]

You should be more concerned about what type of tenancy the tenant currently has. You need to ask the existing owner some searching questions starting with proof of when tenant first moved in.

If you purchase, you cannot impose a new tenancy.

[lizzibee]

The tenant moved in about 2 years ago on a AST. The vendor has to give him 60 days notice. Surely though his(the tenant) agreement is with her (the vendor). Would it be best to purchase the flat with vacant possession and start from scratch. I don't like the idea of buying a place where the tenants agreement is ostensibly with someone who is no longer the owner? Surely this would be complicated. He is disinclined to sign up for as long as 6 months with me as I am proposing to put up the rent and he wants to be able to leave if he finds a better proposition.

[Poppy]

You're right, it will be simpler for you if you purchase with vacant possession.

You should additionally be sure that the existing owner is up to date with the service charge payments, otherwise that becomes your responsibility too.

[lizzibee]

I would really like to keep this tenant on for 6 months only really asking the best way to go about this. Sorry if I am not being clear in my intentions.

[landlord mortgages]

Always best to try and obtain vancant possession or make sure you solicitor does his homework

Residential mortgages will insist on vacant posession

Lee

[Poppy]

You should apply for a buy to let mortgage if you have not already done so. The mortgage lender may insist on the rent covering 125% of the mortgage.

[lizzibee]

I don't require a mortgage so this is not an issue> The tenant only wants to commit to 3 months and I would prefer longer>

[lizzibee]

Poppy

You say I cannot impose a new tenancy - is that correct? If the property changes hands surely I have to have an agreement with the tenant or I have no rights in the matter.

[Ericthelobster]

I don't require a mortgage so this is not an issue> The tenant only wants to commit to 3 months and I would prefer longer>So what's the problem? See P Pilcher's previous reply.

[Poppy]

I cannot impose a new tenancy - is that correct? If the property changes hands surely I have to have an agreement with the tenant or I have no rights in the matter.

If you buy a property with a pre-existing tenant, then the existing tenancy agreement applies. That's why I mentioned that you should be more concerned about the type of tenancy in existence.

As far as the tenant is concerned, all he has to do is pay the same rent to a different landlord. You could attempt to negotiate a new tenancy agreement, but the tenant does not have to.

Be careful of embarking in a new industry without any knowledge of the applicable laws and pitfalls. Unscrupulous landlords often unload undesirable tenanted properties to people like you. Have you read this forum? I recommend that you read as much as you can going back several months.

[Mark T]

I'm looking to rent out one of my bungalows but only for a short period. What's the best form of tenancy to have?

Thanks

[Poppy35]

An Assured Shorthold is best and this can be for any period of time....HOWEVER if you draw it up for a period of less than 6 months and your tenant does not leave, a court will not entertain possession of the house until at least 6 months has expired.

So it may be best, depending on your reasons for having a short term agreement, to draw it up for 6 months and then allow it to end early on agreement of all parties at the appropriate time.

hope this helps.

[Mark T]

Well the tenant I have only wants it for 2-3 weeks (they are buying another property from me but they have to be out of there property Monday). Does the rent affect the type of agreement I have? The rent is £5000 Per week.

[Poppy]

In that case, perhaps you should consider a holiday let.

[red40]

The rent is £5000 Per week. :eek:

How big is this bungalow?

[pippay]

£5000 a week ?????????? !!!!

:eek:


Well the tenant I have only wants it for 2-3 weeks (they are buying another property from me but they have to be out of there property Monday). Does the rent affect the type of agreement I have? The rent is £5000 Per week.

[Mark T]

It's a seven bed bungalow/chalet near Arlington street in London.

[Bel]

At £5000 a week it would bring you over the threshold for an AST (rent must be equivalent of less than £25, 000 a year.

The kind of tenancy you would require would be called a contractual tenancy. It is a tenancy excluded from the Housing act 1988 . It cannot be ended by section 21 or section 8 notices that many of these forums have discussions about. The tenancy is governed by the law of contract.

[jeffrey]

At £5000 a week it would bring you over the threshold for an AST (rent must be equivalent of less than £25, 000 a year.

The kind of tenancy you would require would be called a contractual tenancy. It is a tenancy excluded from the Housing act 1988 . It cannot be ended by section 21 or section 8 notices that many of these forums have discussions about. The tenancy is governed by the law of contract.

Yes- excluded by para. 2(b) of Schedule 1 to Housing Act 1988.

[airhostess]

I am letting out my spare room in my flat for 3 months. The only problem is that it is a company let, where the company will pay all the rent for the tenant. They want to sign a short term let contract to secure the room for him, and have it made official. Where can I get one of these? The only ones I have found are for holiday lets, which the company doesn't want to sign. Or how do I go about writing my own? Can I get the basics from a standard AST and change the wording?

Any advice gratefully received!

Thank you,

AH

[ah84]

Apologies if this has been asked before. Did not find anything on search.

Anyway I run a house as bedsits and have obtained a licence from the council. One of their more hare brained ideas is a minimum room size of 13m2. So eventually I need to knock through from a big room to a little room and make a studio flat thus reducing cheap accomodation for low paid workers.

To compensate for loss of income due to all the costs I plan to extend the property in a few months which will entail gaining posession of some rooms.

An occupier of a small room has given me notice to leave end of July and i don't want to let on a six month AST because it could then take 7-8 months to gain posession and I might have the builders in before then.

So I just wanted to know if there is a way to let short term accomodation either of 2-3 months or possibly holiday accomodation. i.e let the room for a few days or a week at a time?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Murdoch]

Hi all. I am about to set up a 3 month AST for one of my tenants. I am aware
of the legal implications regarding such an agreement in that my rights are limited prior to six months elapsing. My question is, does anyone know when a periodic tenancy would commence in such circumstances? Would it be at the end of the 3 month fixed term or after the 6 month legal minimum? Thanks in advance for any ideas.

[davidjohnbutton]

The way I read it is that the periodic tenancy in this case would begin after the expiry of three months. A contractual tenancy can be made for under a six months let, but the right to possession under S21 does not come into play until six months as you know.

A Statutory periodic tenancy is simply a way of saying "your contract with me has expired, but you can stay on month by month until I give you the required notice".

Unless anyone wants to differ????????

[ah84]

so does that mean it is impossible to let short term to someone (i.e less than 6 months) and be able to gain possession?

[davidjohnbutton]

What it means is that you cannot recover possession on an assured shorthold let through the courts until six months tenancy has elapsed.

If the tenants want to give up possession before that, then that is a matter for them. (i.e. to honour a 3 month tenancy) But if they insist, they can stay six months minimum, and longer than that if they want until you serve the correct S21 notice and take them to court which could take about three months or so.

You can of course serve the S21 notice at any time so long as you comply with the requirements and give the tenants two months notice minimum

[jeffrey]

What it means is that you cannot recover possession on an assured shorthold let through the courts until six months tenancy has elapsed.

Not quite true.
S.8 procedure DOES operate within the first six months; it's only s.21 that cannot produce a possession order operative within the six months.

[J4L]

Wonder if anyone could state if there are any problems with a shorter than average tenancy agreement.
We have a flat that tenants want but only for 3 months (they live in a static home on a site that closes for 2 months of the year)
Apart from the council tax issue are there any other problems that may occur?
Can I write a 3 month AST?
Should I serve section 21 straight off?

Tenants are going to pay cash upfront for the full term.

[ah84]

Jeffrey

Can I ask you to clarify this?

Say poster has a tenancy from Jan 1st to March 31st.

1) Would a section 21 served at commencement of tenancy to expirer after 31st March be valid to be used at a later date or would it need to be dated after 30 June?

2)If notice dated after 31st March is valid. Could one apply to court under accelerated possesion on April 1st and would judge give order for tenant to leave either on 30 June or 14 days after 30 June?

3)Finally is there any way of being able to get a tenant out on a short term basis. Say I have an empty flat with builders booked in for a months time. An ex tenant asks if i have somewhere for two weeks. Is there any way to let them stay without risk of being able to sit there for 6 months plus?


Thanks

[jeffrey]

1. You can never serve a s.21 Notice until tenancy has actually started.
2. If you let for three months beginning on 010107, Notice could be served on or after that day- best to wait until 020107 at least, to avoid arguing re sequence of events.
3. Notice would need to state term expiry (310307) and that L intends to apply on 010407 or "at the expiration of two months from the date of service of this Notice upon you" unless ..[usual wording].
4. BUT L (you) cannot get Possession Order taking effect earlier than 300607, no matter when Order is made.
5. If L previously resided at property, consider a Standard Assured Tenancy instead of AST. Although s.21 is not applicable, serving a PRE-TENANCY Notice under ground 1 in Schedule 2 will have the same effect (and, more importantly, L can get a Possession Order operative at expiry of three-month term).

[J4L]

Thanks,
Call me stupid but i'm reading into this a bit much now and confusing myself

Just for clarity,
I can write up a 3 month AST?? -yes

Should I serve S21? Unsure now after reading other posts!!

I don't think we're going to have any problems with this tenant.

[J4L]

haha,
apologies again,

4. BUT L (you) cannot get Possession Order taking effect earlier than 300607, no matter when Order is made.

I know the dates you've put are not correct here but this is 6 months and not 3. If Tenancy starts on 1st Nov (to finish 30th Jan 08) can I serve section 21 (2/11) stating we require possession on or after 1st Feb?
BUT, should the T not leave, then a court 'won't' grant possession until 6 months has expired????


5. If L previously resided at property, consider a Standard Assured Tenancy instead of AST. Although s.21 is not applicable, serving a PRE-TENANCY Notice under ground 1 in Schedule 2 will have the same effect (and, more importantly, L can get a Possession Order operative at expiry of three-month term).

This is not the case so this route not possible.

[ah84]

1. You can never serve a s.21 Notice until tenancy has actually started.
2. If you let for three months beginning on 010107, Notice could be served on or after that day- best to wait until 020107 at least, to avoid arguing re sequence of events.
3. Notice would need to state term expiry (310307) and that L intends to apply on 010407 or "at the expiration of two months from the date of service of this Notice upon you" unless ..[usual wording].
4. BUT L (you) cannot get Possession Order taking effect earlier than 300607, no matter when Order is made.
5. If L previously resided at property, consider a Standard Assured Tenancy instead of AST. Although s.21 is not applicable, serving a PRE-TENANCY Notice under ground 1 in Schedule 2 will have the same effect (and, more importantly, L can get a Possession Order operative at expiry of three-month term).


ok so you are saying that the section 21 need to state that LL intends to seek possession order on or after 1 April. Normally you dont need to mention court proceedings just the date you require possession after.

So it would seem this may be the quickest way to get possession under section 21. Do a 3 month lease with section 21 to expire after 3 months. Apply to court straight asway and have an order in place for 6 months on the dot.

Doing a 6 months lease means you will have to wait at lease another month to get the order through the court system.

[P.Pilcher]

This does appear to be getting complicated!
Briefly, the law permits you to grant a tenancy for any period you like but does not permit you to apply to a court to commence proceedings under section 21 until 6 months has elapsed since the commencement of the tenancy. Thus if a tenancy commences on the 1st January, granted for 3 months, tenant can move out on 31st March, owing you no more rent. If, however he remains, then you cannot use the S21 notice that you have carefully served during the tenancy until after 30th. June. You can thus serve said s21 notice as soon as it is obvious that tenant is not going to move out when expected and will still be able to give in excess of the required 2 months notice.

If you need the facility to evict tenant after a term shorter than 6 months, then the solution is given by Jeffrey in his 12.10 post and needs you to have been previously resident in the property yourself.

P.P.

[lorenzo]

Can a non-AST contract be used, such as calling it a holiday let?

Any advantage there?

[chapc1]

I am hoping someone can help. I want to rent a flat which I have previously lived in as a short let (about 3 months) as I am considering selling in the near future. I do not know what agreement to use. I am aware that you can write a short term AST but from what I have read you can't force a tenant out within the first 6 months. Can I use a holiday let agreement? Or do I have other rights as I have previously lived in the property?

Thanks

[Bel]

You can only use a holiday let agreement if thats what it is,

...if the tenant has no other home, then it wont be, whatever your piece of paper says.

Unless you live in the flat when your tenant comes to live there (ie they are technically your lodger) and the agreement says you have a right to stay in your flat and technically it's your main residence, then you will not have to go to court to evict as lodgers have few rights. However; if your arrangement is a "sham", the lodger will be a tenant with rights, no matter what your piece of paper says.

A court will always look at intention rather than the written agreement you give your tenant, to see what rights they have.

I would think the market for a 3 month let would be very small. Unless you can find a language school that has foreign students wanting accomodation for just a few weeks, or you have a great location where a holiday let might actually work, or find a company that may need to put up workers short term.

[jeffrey]

I would think the market for a 3 month let would be very small. Unless you can find a language school that has foreign students wanting accomodation for just a few weeks, or...a company that may need to put up workers short term.
Good idea: contact local college, or language school, and offer to let to the organisation/company rather than to individuals. That way, the letting will be legally outside 1988 Act; a company let is not capable of beng an assured tenancy (whether AST or SAT).

[chapc1]

Thanks for your advice. I definitely wont do the holiday let route unless it is a real holiday let. The short let market in London is very strong, I have had lots of interest from private tenants. Is my only option to write an AST for a 3month period and just hope that the tenants leave on time but accept the fact that I can't take action before 6 months? I thought that there might be another possibility around the fact that I used to live in the flat?

[jeffrey]

I thought that there might be another possibility around the fact that I used to live in the flat?
Yes. The 1988 Act created two types of Assured Tenancy:
1. Assured Shorthold Tenancy.
2. Standard Assured Tenancy.

AST: can use s.21 but six-month rule applies. T has rent protection on rent review or new (2nd) letting.

SAT: no s.21 scheme but no six-month rule either. T has no rent protection at all. An SAT can work in favour of an owner who used to occupy. By serving a PRE-TENANCY Notice under ground 1, such L can achieve the same benefit (ease of possession) as s.21 gives to L of an AST.

[premieji]

Dear everyone
I let to students during the academic year Oct to end June using a joint anad several AST since they are always a group of friends. In the past I have also let to students during the summer vacation but have given separate individual ASTs - I have always insisted that each person pays a nominal £100 deposit, stays at least 10 weeks and pays for the whole period in advance, up front in a lump sum. It is a lot of hassle preparing 10 separate contracts (5 in each house) and I wondered if there was a way to avoid having to do all this, this summer - what legal protection do I (the LL) have without a contract? What rights do the tenants have? What about my LL insurance cover - will I not be covered without a contract just for 10 weeks?
Any comments welsome. Premieji

[sherlock]

I have a student property that has been signed up from July 1st this year.

The current tenants have moved out (as previously agreed, no problems here - long story) and I am interested in renting the property for a short term (3-4 months) to take me up to July.

I understand that even though I can create an agreement for any period the tenants have a right to stay for 6 months before I could legally move them out under section 21.

Is there anything I can do to help if at the end of the short term contract the tenants decide not to leave?

Is there any notice I could serve at the beginning of the tenancy so that everybody is fully aware that the house needs to be vacated and there is no option to stay past 4 months?

Thanks

[Colincbayley]

Is there anything I can do to help if at the end of the short term contract the tenants decide not to leave?

Is there any notice I could serve at the beginning of the tenancy so that everybody is fully aware that the house needs to be vacated and there is no option to stay past 4 months?

Thanks

No and No.

[sherlock]

If they do want to stay on, what happens to the tenants who have signed up from July 1st? What can they (the July tenants) do legally and what responsibilities would I have?

[jeffrey]

Sherlock: have you ever been the owner-occupier of the property?
If you have, there is an alternative to the AST. You could let on an SAT, preceding it by a ground 1 Notice to the prospective T.

[sherlock]

Not been an owner-occupier of this property, it has always been a rental. Thanks for the idea.

[bagpuss]

Are you letting over the summer to the same students to whom you are letting for the rest of the academic year? Or are they a different set of students?

If they are the first, then I'd just add the summer rental period to their academic year rental agreement. That's what I do.

If they're different students, then it's a whole different ballgame. Have you taken summer retainers for your main academic year group? We do and that's supposed to ensure that you don't let to other people over the summer.

If you do take the risk and let to other people, you'd have to have agreements for them or you could find that they don't move out when they're supposed to and you'd have no recourse in law. Plus, if this happened what would you do then? You'd be in all sorts of trouble with your main group of students.

I only let over the summer to the students who'll be taking up residence in the same house in the autumn for this very reason.

[swinefever]

Fixed AST's can be for any period of time but should your summer students decide to stay on, you will not be able to legally gain possession of the property until 6 months after the start of the AST. This may sound strange but it's the law.

If you decide to go for an unwritten tenancy, the same applies. This will automatically be regarded as a contractual periodic tenancy (still shorthold) and you can only gain possession any time after 6 months. The only other way to gain possession is if the tenant gives you legal grounds to evict (such as not paying rent for 2 months etc) and then you can use a Section 8 notice. However, to get your property back, you would still need to go to court to get a possession order.

All is all, it's very risky. For such short term agreements, you are relying on your tenant to give you notice at the end of the AST. If they don't, then you're in trouble if you've promised the house to others.

[Grange]

What about letting it as serviced accommodation. Does this still work as a way around ASTs?

And for a L with a portfolio of rental properties, the risk of having a bad T who doesn't vacate at the start of term becomes a small risk compared to the extra income from the summer.

[jeffrey]

Or a holiday let?

[bagpuss]

Or a holiday let?

Never thought of that! Can you have special 'holiday' type contracts?

How would that work, legally, if they still didn't move out on the specified date?

[jeffrey]

Never thought of that! Can you have special 'holiday' type contracts?

How would that work, legally, if they still didn't move out on the specified date?
See paragraph 9 in Schedule 1 to Housing Act 1988. A holiday let is NOT a tenancy covered by the Act, so it is enforceable literally: contractual and common-law only. I cannot trace any cases dealing with this ground itself, but there are a couple of Court of Appeal decisions on the [identical] s.9 of Rent Act 1977:
Facchini v. Bryson [1952] 1 TLR 1386
Buchmann v. May [1978] 2 All ER 993.

No s.8/s.21 Notices applicable, of course. Serve common-law Notice to Quit at least one month before fixed term expiry date.If T does not vacate on that expiry, begin proceedings at once.

[Bel]

You could only get away with a holiday let if all tenants have another home, and it is genuinely a 'holiday'. The law will always see through a sham and give the tenants their rights, even if contract says 'holiday let'.

Serviced accomodation is an option; but you must provide the service. This might be cleaning the occupiers room and changing the sheets on a weekly basis. Also many individual agreements will need to be made (the OP wanted to avoid this) If it is a sham, then the tenants will have rights, even if it says 'licence agreement'.

[Paul_f]

This is probably a HMO
Nobody has mentioned TDS
No - it won't qualify as a holiday let as there are strict rules and these students won't meet them.

[bagpuss]

Sometimes students do want to stay on in the area 'on holiday' during the summer holiday period (can't face going home to live with Mum and Dad, presumably!) I don't see that this would be a 'sham' letting in any way.

In our case though, as I said, I wouldn't risk letting our HMOs to students who weren't going to be tenanting the houses that academic year. Just too many things could go wrong.

[Bel]

Sometimes students do want to stay on in the area 'on holiday' during the summer holiday period (can't face going home to live with Mum and Dad, presumably!) I don't see that this would be a 'sham' letting in any way.

In our case though, as I said, I wouldn't risk letting our HMOs to students who weren't going to be tenanting the houses that academic year. Just too many things could go wrong.




If you do a holiday agreement and then the 'tenant' protested that the LL knew it wasn't really a holiday and was trying to restrict his rights by issuing a licence(holiday let) to ensure he could evict him without a court order, but really the tenant was using it as his home, the student could legally claim protection from eviction. So there is no point issuing a holiday let agreement if the student is not on holiday.

See Street vs Mountford re sham licence agreements acknowledged as tenancies in court.

If the student is on holiday and the flat is in a holiday area then fine. If the student has a job he is not on holiday. A student could argue he has left home, so the 'holiday let' would be his home.

At the end of the day, it is unlikely that student will decide not to leave. But there is little point using an agreement that will not protect the LL when it comes to the crunch.

[premieji]

Thank you for the good advice everyone. I do need the summer rental income and have successfully rented to students through the summer in previous years (but not really understanding the risks) - to summarise, am I correct in understanding that if I let it as a holiday let or provide a service, these are safer options? I must say I do get a bit nervous in Sept before the summer students have to move out to make way for the previous group, in case something goes wrong and they refuse to leave... I could also ask for proof that they have somewhere to go after the summer...?

Do you know what type of agreement I have to have to let my rooms as holiday lets? :confused:

[Bel]

Thank you for the good advice everyone. I do need the summer rental income and have successfully rented to students through the summer in previous years (but not really understanding the risks) - to summarise, am I correct in understanding that if I let it as a holiday let or provide a service, these are safer options? I must say I do get a bit nervous in Sept before the summer students have to move out to make way for the previous group, in case something goes wrong and they refuse to leave... I could also ask for proof that they have somewhere to go after the summer...?

Do you know what type of agreement I have to have to let my rooms as holiday lets? :confused:



A holiday let agreement is not a safe option if the let clearly is not a holiday let; it will not protect you if the 'tenant' decides to claim their rights.

If you went ahead and used one in this situation, your hope would be that the occupiers do not come to realise their rights and leave when requested.

Yes, you should check out what their plans are after. Also get Mum and Dad to gaurentee them so if there is trouble, you can claim off them. But all this is more paperwork!!

Or you could provide a housekeeping service so that you can legally issue a licence agreement. But do your homework on how this would all work.

[Vic20]

If the property is leasehold, be careful to check that you are within your rights to sublet on a short term or holiday let basis.

Many leases specify that the property has to be occupied for private residence by a single household, and you may require permission to sublet (with the associated fee) from your landlord/managing agent every time the tenant changes.

[jeffrey]

If the property is leasehold, be careful to check that you are within your rights to sublet on a short term or holiday let basis.

Many leases specify that the property has to be occupied for private residence by a single household, and you may require permission to sublet (with the associated fee) from your landlord/managing agent every time the tenant changes.
Subletting whole as private residence for one family would not breach such a covenant unless it expressly prohibits sub-letting.

[Grange]

So what if... your AST puts the price up at the end of the summer to an uneconomic level?

And I don't know if you can have a rent rise in the first six months, so if you can't, say you let the house normally at £100 a week. For the summer, let it at £200 a week, and write a 50% reduction into the TA for the first three months? The Ts would be very unlikely to outstay their welcome given prices double

Would that work?

[RayLondon]

Hello,

I am thinking of letting one of my property for about three months.

Can anyone advise me what sort of agreement i should use? whether the standard AST agreement is required? or something else?

Thanks

[diddled]

Obviously you'll get a contract that best suits your needs, but please be aware that the odds are stacked in favour of the tenant anyway. If they want to stay after you've served notice, they can. You will have to go thru the whole eviction process. The tenant you pick is always a lottery - is it worth a potential problem for just 3 months rent?

[RayLondon]

Thanks.

is there a particular contract that can be used for short let and where can i get it from?

or

Can the standard AST agreements for short let?

Can someone please advise the best possibe way with minimal risk.

[Poppy]

Holiday letting.

Common law tenancy or contractual tenancy.

Do NOT use an AST for your particular circumstances.

[islandgirl]

As I understand it, if your tenants on an AST refuse to leave after the 3 months the earliest you can remove them is after 6 months (and in reality this would be 8 or 9 or more...!). Good luck!

[gnomey]

Hi

I'm now in the position of becoming a tenant rather than a landlord, as we're coming back to the UK for 3 months for a sabbatical. As a landlord I know quite a bit about AST's etc (a lot learned from folk here - THANKYOU !) but I need some advice regarding short term lets (less than 6 months)

My question is regarding a very short let (3 months) which I guess is not an AST. I've gone through the "Residential Lease" the landlord has sent and it looks OK in principle (apart fro the fact that it's not in Plain English and it's not stated that bills are included in the rent - which I am asking to be included), but I wanted to check somewhere that it is "legally" OK.

Also what is the law regarding the tenancy deposit scheme on such a short let? The landlord seems to want the deposit to hold, can he do this on a short term lease (I know you can't on an AST)?

Even if you can just point me in the right direction (I've googled a bit and not come up with much useful info) it woukld be a help.

Thank you all in advance

Gnomey

[justaboutsane]

You can still go down the AST route. An AST can be for as short a term as you like, BUT the LL can not evict until 6 months are up.

If I were in your shoes I would ask for a 3 month AST.

[Bel]

Its only an AST if its your main address. If your main home is elsewhere technically it should be a contractual tenancy. As such, there would be no 6 month minimum stay before court proceedings. And no need to lodge deposit either. SO it depends if your circumstance is legally regarded as your main home.

A letter from the agent or LL should be enough to ensure that you can have your bills paid by LL, otherwise its a breach of Trades Descriptions Act if LL will not pay afterwards.

[johnboy]

BUT the LL can not evict until 6 months are up.

.

Unless it it via a section 8 notice

[mrsteve]

Good evening,

I would like to go to see my father in Asia for about a month in September, but i don't want to have my flat sitting empty.

I have sublet a room in a shared house before, but i got burnt as the chap is still paying me the rent a year on. This time i want to know for definite that i'll get some cash.

Also, as this time i will be subletting a one bed, there will be no one else here to make sure my tenant doesn't run off with the silver wear. Should i remove my TV etc, or just ask for a mega deposit?

Does anyone have any tips, or advice? Has anyone had any bad experiences with their tenant, or any good ones for that matter?

Steve

PS: I'm not asking permission from my landlord to do this- so it will be an illegal sublet. Therefore contracts will be useless if this plan goes wrong.

[SEB]

Good evening,

I would like to go to see my father in Asia for about a month in September, but i don't want to have my flat sitting empty.

I have sublet a room in a shared house before, but i got burnt as the chap is still paying me the rent a year on. This time i want to know for definite that i'll get some cash.

Also, as this time i will be subletting a one bed, there will be no one else here to make sure my tenant doesn't run off with the silver wear. Should i remove my TV etc, or just ask for a mega deposit?

Does anyone have any tips, or advice? Has anyone had any bad experiences with their tenant, or any good ones for that matter?

Steve

PS: I'm not asking permission from my landlord to do this- so it will be an illegal sublet. Therefore contracts will be useless if this plan goes wrong.

Do you really expect to get quality advice from people on illegal acts?

In any event, what you are seeking to do if you could do it legally leaves you open to a multitude of abuse and the "waste" of 1 months rent is so piffling next to what losses you could face by inviting undocumented people with no contracts or liabilities to you, into a rental home, people whom you know not who they are and who could easily sublet to someone else for a short time.
They in turn could sublet to another etc..etc.. and very quickly before you know it, your home could become well known by the "ladies of the night" as a great place to carry out their business and as a location for the local drugs industry.

This may be an extreme scenario, but it is quite possible as the people you give the property to have no vested interest in obeying your rules.

I doubt you have any silverware, seeing as you don't know how to spell the word and your TV going missing is the least of your troubles, sir.

It would be better if you have good friends who can come and stay at your flat for a while to make it look like someone is still living there while you are away, open windows, turn on/off lights, TV & radios etc, although you can buy gadgets that will do the electrical things for you.

[Ericthelobster]

Does anyone have any tips, or advice? Has anyone had any bad experiences with their tenant, or any good ones for that matter?

PS: I'm not asking permission from my landlord to do this- so it will be an illegal sublet. Therefore contracts will be useless if this plan goes wrong

If you were my tenant and I found out you'd done this behind my back, I would start reposession proceedings without a second thought, and I suspect most landlords would do likewise.

So ask yourself whether you think possibly saving a month's rent is worth it, versus the risk of (a) the subtenant not paying you; (b) the subtenant not moving out when you return; (c) having your landlord evict you regardless of the outcome of (a) or (b).

[Sorrel]

If we're talking illegal the best money earner is to sub-let to drug dealers etc. They're quite happy to pay a higher rent....oh and prossies, plus you may even get a bit extra to the deal. I hear immigrant arms dealers pay well!

Or what you could do as a real money earner is sell the property before you move...then bugger off around the world on the proceeds.

The landlord may never find out either if your real quiet about it.

Jeeeez get real pal...if your gonna risk doing summit like that I wouldn't be asking for advice on this forum!

[SEB]

Ilegal or not, if you sublet the subtenancy will be an AST and the tenant entitled to a minimum of six months.....

Does a tenant have the power to sub-let (does it matter if it is prohibited in the TA or not?) and is that sub-let subject to the normal tenancy regulations?

Can an illegal act by one person give rise to a legal status for another?

[jeffrey]

Does a tenant have the power to sub-let (does it matter if it is prohibited in the TA or not?) and is that sub-let subject to the normal tenancy regulations?

Can an illegal act by one person give rise to a legal status for another?
Yes, bizarrely. Even someone without power to sublet (or any legal estate) can bind him/herself contractually. See Bruton v. London & Quadrant Housing Trust [1999] where LQHT purported to grant exclusive possession to T. LQHT lacked legal capacity (because it did not own the premises) and so could not confer a proprietary interest. HELD: a tenancy (binding LQHT) was established in T's favour. I guess that T would have sued LQHT if the true owner had come along and slung T out!

[Lawcruncher]

Whether a tenant has the power to sublet or not, if the tenant grants a subtenancy it is legal in the sense that a tenancy is created. Without the intervention of the head landlord there is a relationship of landlord and tenant between the tenant and subtenant that can only be ended in the same way as any other tenancy.

If the head tenancy prohibits subletting (whether with or without consent) and the tenant sublets without seeking consent, if the head landlord has notice of the subletting and after notice accepts or demands rent, the breach of covenant is waived as it is a "one off" breach.

Subletting in breach of covenant does of course render the tenancy liable to forfeiture and if forfeited any subtenancies fall with it.

If the subtenant is aware that the subtenancy was granted in breach of covenant the court may, on the head landlord's application, unravel it. In general however, a landlord's options are to forfeit or accept the situation.

The landlord may also of course claim damages for breach of covenant, but needs to show a loss.

[Lawcruncher]

Yes, bizarrely. Even someone without power to sublet (or any legal estate) can bind him/herself contractually.

Not bizarre if the legal postion is considered. Tenure is not dependent on the existence of a legal estate. Tenures arose before estates.

[jeffrey]

Not bizarre if the legal postion is considered. Tenure is not dependent on the existence of a legal estate. Tenures arose before estates.
Is bizarre. Nemo dat quod non habet, and all that.

[Lawcruncher]

The Nemo dat rule is best though of as applying to personal property. Real property is different. The rule is concerned with the transfer of title. In the case of real property anyone with a legal estate can carve a new legal estate or interest out of it and needs to have a legal estate vested in him to do so. The creation of leasehold tenure is not dependent upon the landlord having any estate (whether legal or equitable) vested in him.

[wallaceoc]

Hi,

I have a property that I rent but my existing tenants are moving out before the end of the year. It's a difficult time to find new tenants as it appears people are waiting until the new year to find a new place.

I'm consdering renting my place out for a couple of months to somebody on a short-term agreement while I wait for things to pick up again.

Is there some sort of short-term tenancy agreement that I can use?

Thanks
Wallace

[Paul Gibbs]

you can create a tenancy that is not an AST but ensure it is drafted properly just because you call it something else does not mean it is!

[jeffrey]

you can create a tenancy that is not an AST but ensure it is drafted properly just because you call it something else does not mean it is!
I agree.
wallaceoc: have you ever lived in the property as your own main home? If so, consider an SAT preceded by a ground 1 Notice.

[wallaceoc]

No - I've never lived there so I guess that rules that out.

The Holiday Let sounds like a good option - does anybody disagree?

Wallace

[Paul_f]

There are (HMRC) rules concerning holiday lets and that they have to be available for a minimum number of days in the year on a short-term basis, so your proposed temporary tenancy won't comply as you will withdraw this option once your short-term tenant vacates. You will be creating an AST no matter what you think you are creating with all the bells an whistles attached.

[wallaceoc]

you can create a tenancy that is not an AST but ensure it is drafted properly just because you call it something else does not mean it is!

Is there any fast rule for how you can draft a tenancy contract that is not an AST? Can I use an AST as a template and leave out certain sections?

Wallace

[jeffrey]

Can I use an AST as a template and leave out certain sections?
Yes. Omit anything:
a. labelling it an AST; or
b. referring to s.21.

[Preston]

Yes. Omit anything:
a. labelling it an AST; or
b. referring to s.21.

Hi

So, what kind of tenany will this create? And what procedure would the landlord use to get possession?

Preston

[jeffrey]

Hi

So, what kind of tenany will this create? And what procedure would the landlord use to get possession?

Preston
Standard Assured Tenancy, under 1988 Act,
UNLESS it falls foul of anything in Schedule 1 (e.g. rent > £25 000 per year; letting to Co; resident L; etc.)

Possession procedure under s.8 stil applies (if it's an SAT) or common-law contractual rules (otherwise).

[Preston]

Standard Assured Tenancy, under 1988 Act,
UNLESS it falls foul of anything in Schedule 1 (e.g. rent > £25 000 per year; letting to Co; resident L; etc.)

Possession procedure under s.8 stil applies (if it's an SAT) or common-law contractual rules (otherwise).

Given what you have said, I'm not sure I would take the risk if I were the OP, given that I need possession back in less than 6 months.

The only route I would consider, I think, is a professionally drafted contractual tenancy agreement which makes it clear that there is no intention on either part to enter into long term legal relations because both parties need a very short term letting arrangement. And even this would be a bit of risk I think, not least because if the tenant refuses to move out at the end of the agreed period a court order will still be required which could take a while to obtain.

Preston

[Bowlane]

I have a block of flats which is being converted,was due for completion early jan but had some major delays with electric company. One of the flats is completed with poer and heating, I have a tenant lined up for one of the uncompleted flats and he needs to move next week. I want to put him in the completed flat for about 2/4 weeks, is it best to do a very short AST or a licence to occupy.

[mind the gap]

I have a block of flats which is being converted,was due for completion early jan but had some major delays with electric company. One of the flats is completed with poer and heating, I have a tenant lined up for one of the uncompleted flats and he needs to move next week. I want to put him in the completed flat for about 2/4 weeks, is it best to do a very short AST or a licence to occupy.

IN theory you could grant an AST; however, if he decided not to move out, you cannot serve a section 21 to expire any earlier than the end of the sixth month.

Licence to occupy sound like a better idea, if possible.

[Bowlane]

does anyone know where I can get a template for a licence to occupy

[jeffrey]

does anyone know where I can get a template for a licence to occupy
Warning: even though you might intend to grant a Licence and label the document so, only the law decides what its effect is.
Read the case of Street v. Mountford (e.g. do an LZ search for it), as it will explain the pitfalls in what you envisage!

[mind the gap]

Warning: even though you might intend to grant a Licence and label the document so, only the law decides what its effect is.
Read the case of Street v. Mountford (e.g. do an LZ search for it), as it will explain the pitfalls in what you envisage!

Jeffrey, so would your advice be not to grant a licnce to occupy for this very short period. but to pay for B&B accommodation (or something) instead?

[jeffrey]

There is no easy answer. Letting for a very short period, however you do it, runs major risks. One possible way would be to let to a company (as this cannot be an AST, by definition), but that still poses difficulties if the Company then lets to an individual!

[Bel]

If you knew when Flat B would be ready then you could get them to sign two contracts; which means even if they did not vacate flat A you would still get rent for flat B, so they have a reason to move out if they do not want to pay double

[Rodent1]

If you knew when Flat B would be ready then you could get them to sign two contracts; which means even if they did not vacate flat A you would still get rent for flat B, so they have a reason to move out if they do not want to pay double

AST is for min residence only by definition, How do you propose to enforce Dual rent ?

The Rodent

[Preston]

AST is for min residence only by definition, How do you propose to enforce Dual rent ?

The Rodent

Hi,

am not commenting on the merits of the idea (although I do think it is quite imaginative) but it is quite possible to have as many tenancies as you like at any one time, its just that only one of them can be your only or principal home and therefore an AST (unless of course you have a number of joint tenancies and your fellow joint tenants remain in occupation at the various addresses ....!?).

Any that you don't occupy will be oridinary contractual tenancies.

Also, an AST can be constructed to allow the tenant to give notice within the 6 month period.

Preston

[slotnicki]

I am about to let out a house to some tenants who are refurbishing their own property. They think that the work will take about 4 months. I've looked at a couple of AST templates. Some sites suggest that an AST must be for 6 months or over. Others say that they can be shorter, but that the tenant will, in any case, get 6 months protection. Can the dates of an AST be for less than 6 months?

[Paul_f]

An AST can be for any period you like but the tenants have security of tenure for 6 months minimum. The fixed term should be for fewer than 3 years otherwise it has to be executed as a Deed. If you want a good tenancy agreement and are preapred to part with £5 then go to the RLA website www.rla.org.uk. There are other good ones for free but you might take a little time to find them.

[jeffrey]

slotnicki: did you ever own-occupy the house? If so, consider letting it on a four-month SAT, preceded by a ground 1 Notice.

[Agent Memsi]

Quick question...

For a short-term let (e.g. 1 month, 6 weeks etc...) can I use a standard AST?

Thanks

[jeffrey]

For a short-term let (e.g. 1 month, 6 weeks etc...) can I use a standard AST?
1. Don't call it 'standard'. A Standard Assured Tenancy is quite different from an AST.
2. Subject to that, yes. There is no minimum AST term.
3. However, remember that you cannot obtain s.21 possession until the letting has been running for at least six months- no matter how short a term was explicitly granted at the outset.

[ziggy99]

Hi There

For the past year we have let our flat to a couple. The couple have now split up and when their contract comes to an end in May they do now want to renew.

We have some ongoing problems relating to damp in the flat and an ongoing insurance case to get this fixed so do not want to look for new tenants until this is fixed and the flat is in a better state. One half of the couple is interested in staying in the flat and we would be prepared to only charge half the rent until we find new tenants.

I was hoping someone could provide some guidance relating to the best way to do this contractually. We would want to let the flat to the tenant on a month by month basis and wouldn't mind sending out a new contract every month but I am unsure if this is possible and whether we would need to do tis for a minimum 6 month term?

Any advice would be appreciated

Many Thanks

[jeffrey]

"Do now want" = "do not want"?

[ziggy99]

Ah - I meant to say that they do not want to renew the contract as they are splitting up!

[jeffrey]

Ah - I meant to say that they do not want to renew the contract as they are splitting up!

Aha, I see. OK- let's turn to your query, as corrected.

For the past year we have let our flat to a couple. The couple have now split up and when their contract comes to an end in May they do not want to renew.

We have some ongoing problems relating to damp in the flat and an ongoing insurance case to get this fixed so do not want to look for new tenants until this is fixed and the flat is in a better state. One half of the couple is interested in staying in the flat and we would be prepared to only charge half the rent until we find new tenants.

I was hoping someone could provide some guidance relating to the best way to do this contractually. We would want to let the flat to the tenant on a month by month basis and wouldn't mind sending out a new contract every month but I am unsure if this is possible and whether we would need to do tis for a minimum 6 month term?
You could let to the continuing T alone. This might be for a new fixed term or it could be periodic from day1. It would inevitably be a new letting (so new Deposit to protect; no s.21 availability for six months).

[martinpascuale]

Hi all.

I am potentially letting a property to 3 Australian tenants who want it for 3 months. Is there standard tenancy agreement for short lets and if so what is it called.
As they are only in the UK for 3 months are there any specific checks that should be carried out, as the normal ones would obviously be useless, is there anything else I could do as a safeguard.

Many thanks in advance.

Martin

[TenantsLuvMe]

Briefly, you can specify any tenancy term (even 1 day I think ), but the tenant is legally entitled to a minimum period of 6 months, so if the tenants don't go after the agreed period, you won't be able to begin procedures to get them out until after 6 months have elapsed.

With regards to check on tenants, if they haven't been in the UK before and won't be here for more than 3 months, I would ask for all the rent upfront plus 6 weeks rent deposit.
I would still like to see any documentation they have of references and I would contact those referees too.

To be honest, I would be nervous about taking this type of tenant, as there is the aspect of criminal or nefarious elements that may not be known to you and would not show up on a tenant assessment report (at least not the ones I usually use).

[Preston]

Hi

It is possible to create a tenancy (or a licence) outside the assured tenancy regime for a period of less than six months. (If the tenant doesn't move out at the end of the term it is still necessary to apply for a possession order). An example would be something called a tenancy at will. The key issue is the intention of the parties.

However, this is a rather technical area of landlord and tenant law and its not something I would attempt without specialist legal advice. So in practice, my advice would be not to do what you are suggesting.

Preston

[HairyLandlord]

I am seeing more and more people ask for either no tenancy at all, 2-3 month tenancy, or a month to month tenancy, or or other form of flexible terms tenancy, including no deposits.

I do understand in this financial and employment climate why people want such things, but are we able to offer such tenancies (I not aware of these options) and if so, is this a sign of something that will become a permanent feature in the housing landscape and that the law will have to provide for? (apologies if it does already and that I am unaware of).

I know lodgers and other "informal" setups have been running for donkey's years, but these are not usually relevant to landlords who don't live in the same property.

[Bel]

An AST can be for any length of time you chose; but the tenant will always have the 'protection' of 6 months minimum if they change their mind as you cannot apply to court before then unless they dont pay the rent .

[theartfullodger]

Any AST that does not mention the initial fixed period will do. (As I discovered on a training course last week).

However, as indicated above by Bel you can't be certain of getting the property back from the tenant until after 6 months when you can then apply to the court for possession. And then wait for the order. & then wait for the Bailiffs to do their stuff.

That is why almost all tenancies are for a minimum of 6 months.

If, however, the tenant & Landlord agree to end the tenancy early (even after 2 days, say), then that can be done. Question is, would you be happy to hand over a, say, £100k asset on the "hope" that the tenant would play ball when they don't have to?? Well, I wouldnae...

Cheers!


Lodger

[HairyLandlord]

However, as indicated above by Bel you can't be certain of getting the property back from the tenant until after 6 months when you can then apply to the court for possession. And then wait for the order. & then wait for the Bailiffs to do their stuff.

That is why almost all tenancies are for a minimum of 6 months.

If, however, the tenant & Landlord agree to end the tenancy early (even after 2 days, say), then that can be done. Question is, would you be happy to hand over a, say, £100k asset on the "hope" that the tenant would play ball when they don't have to?? Well, I wouldnae...

Cheers!


Lodger


That's what I thought and why I felt that the AST is impractical for a live-out landlord for these flexible tenancy situations.

But mainly, I am not concerned about someone staying longer (as long as they pay their rent of course). I am concerned that people who are seeking flexible terms are wanting to leave (or will leave) at almost the drop of a hat, which forces me to find a replacement tenant, in rushed circumstances, with all that is involved with trying to find someone new. I don't want to be doing that every 2-3-4 months.

The worthwhile responses have missed the point.

By the way, I have a fine property in a great location and have also dropped the rent by 16%. It has just proved very hard to find tenants and their "requirements" are getting more and more picky & demanding.

[Lawcruncher]

Is it not simple? If you cannot find tenants willing to take on your property for the length of time you want them to take it, are you going to refuse those who will only take it for shorter periods? If it is a tenant's market you have to go with it or risk having the property vacant.

[HairyLandlord]

Is it not simple? If you cannot find tenants willing to take on your property for the length of time you want them to take it, are you going to refuse those who will only take it for shorter periods? If it is a tenant's market you have to go with it or risk having the property vacant.

Perhaps. But I wanted to find out whether there are such things as month-to-month or other types of tenancy agreements, as I have heard of none other than the standard AST & AT.

I note that no-one has offered any help on that point.

[Bel]

Perhaps. But I wanted to find out whether there are such things as month-to-month or other types of tenancy agreements, as I have heard of none other than the standard AST & AT.

I note that no-one has offered any help on that point.

My 'standard ' AST allows me to put any fixed term I want to. Doesn't yours?

If you want to do a monthly tenancy; just put one month for the fixed term and when that expires, the tenancy becomes a monthly periodic tenancy.

Simple eh?

[jeffrey]

Clarification: the 'six-month' rule applies only to an AST. So an SAT (or a tenancy entirely outside the 1988 Act) has no such rule.

[Lawcruncher]

There is really no such thing as an "assured shorthold tenancy agreement" - only agreements suitable for use when the tenancy is to be used for an assured shorthold tenancy and which can also be used for other types of tenancy.

[Mrs Jones]

My 'standard ' AST allows me to put any fixed term I want to. Doesn't yours?

If you want to do a monthly tenancy; just put one month for the fixed term and when that expires, the tenancy becomes a monthly periodic tenancy.

Simple eh?

But you STILL cannot gain possession until 6 months is up!!

[jeffrey]

But you STILL cannot gain possession until 6 months is up!
That's true only if:
a. the letting is an AST;
b. this is the first letting from this L to this T of this property; and
c. L is relying on s.21, not s.8.

[mikcon]

Hello I am new to forum.
My daughter has to go abroad for 2 months and wants to let her flat. She has found someone and intends to give them an AST to protect herself. I read on this forum that any AST protects tenant for 6 months.

My question is : Is there any type of contract she can give that would assure her the right of re-occupancy when she returns after 2 months?

The tenant is making all the right noises and seems genuine enough but you never know. Thank you
Mikcom

[jta]

You would have to write a specific contract to limit the tenancy to 2 months, even then the tenant could decide to stay and it would take you five or six months to get them out via the court route. TBH it isn't really worth the risk for a two month tenancy.

[Preston]

Hi

Read up on ground 1, schedule 2 of the Housing Act 1988 - the "returning owner occupier" ground for possession. If you intend to rely on this, get advice from an experienced landlord and tenant lawyer on how to draw up the tenancy agreement.

But, my guess is that the lawyer will give you the same advice as LC, (well maybe not exactly the same, but the gist is likely to be similar).

The nub of the issue is this; if its properly done, your daughter can ensure that she is entitled to possession when she returns, but actually gaining possession is another matter and may take some time if the tenant changes their mind and refuses to move out.

Good luck

Preston

[johnboy]

If she does decide to do it make sure she gets a home owning guarantor and a s21 is served at the beginning of the tenancy (after any deposit is protected). Also get alarger than normal deposit.

Also it could be added into the tenancy agreement that after the first 2 months the rent is double (or something like that) that should help put off any overstay and you would have the guarantor as well to help enforce payment or convince them to leave if it came down to it.

Just a thought

[Angela Keenan]

Hello

I have a tenant who would like to rent my property for 3-4 months as he is currently looking to purchase a property.

He is willing to pay rent in advance, however, I haven't a clue as to wish sort of tenancy agreement I should grant him, any ideas please?

MANY THANKS
ANGELA

[jeffrey]

You can let on AST; there's no minimum term.
However, if you need to serve a s.21 Notice to obtain vacant possession, no Possession Order can operate during first six months of T's occupation.

[dereksan@gmail.com]

Could anyone advise me if the short-term rental (i.e. 1 night to six months) of a furnished flat to different tenants on an ongoing basis is considered commercial or residential, and if there are any specific regulations, in addition to standard lease regulations, that need to be adhered to by the landlord and tenant. The furnished flat is located in London.
Many Thanks,
DS

[jeffrey]

Have a look back over this thread. Many of its posts seem to answer your query, but please repost any specifics on which you are unclear.

[EPalmer]

I am in a long chain to purchase a house although I have completed on my own. Therefore I need a short letting of approx 2/3 months, is this ever possible. It seems to me the agreement would have to be for 6 months minimum with the potential to give notice at 4 months. Is this correct. None of the agents come back to me, yet I would have thought if we were prepared to pay substantial deposit / rental in advance, they should put this to their clients. Why don't they?
Would I be best to take a normal letting and not tell the agents I will not be there long term.
Any advice would be appreciated.

[jeffrey]

There is no minimum length for a letting and (even for an AST) there hasn't been since 1997.

However, L/L's Agent might not be too enthusiastic in case you won't vacate. Possession rights [s.21] cannot be used during a new T's first six months.

Consider asking if any Letting Agents have cases in which:
a. an existing T does want to vacate/surrender early (e.g. part-way through a University year) and L is flexible; or
b. L is a former owner-occupier (so the letting could be preceded by a g1 Notice giving mandatory possession rights [s.8] on term expiry).

[thesaint]

The tenancy agreement will have a "term" on it that is usually 6 or 12 months, so simply "not telling" them that you require it for a shorter period will not work for you.

The landlord may not want a short let, as he may have to pay fees to the agent twice for doing so.

[westminster]

I am in a long chain to purchase a house although I have completed on my own. Therefore I need a short letting of approx 2/3 months, is this ever possible. It seems to me the agreement would have to be for 6 months minimum with the potential to give notice at 4 months. Is this correct. None of the agents come back to me, yet I would have thought if we were prepared to pay substantial deposit / rental in advance, they should put this to their clients. Why don't they?
Would I be best to take a normal letting and not tell the agents I will not be there long term.
Short lets in London usually command a much higher rent. Sometimes double. Same goes for commission the LL pays the letting agent as a finders fee/management fee for short lets.

Often, short lets will have things like broadband included because short term renters can't get such short contracts from the providers.

As Jeffrey says, there's no minimum length AST; and the LL can't take action to evict T by regular s.21 procedure and get a possession order to take effect sooner than six months after the start of the tenancy.

If you take a 'normal' six month contract, you are liable for rent for the full six months. LL doesn't have to let you off if you say you've suddenly decided to move out.

If you're not in London and are finding local agents don't get the idea of a short let, try a national chain of agents which has London branches and they're maybe more likely to get it.

[EPalmer]

Thanks for the advice, it is exactly as I thought. Even if I only need a let for 2 or 3 months I will have to commit to 6 months and probably have to give the impression I am a long term tenant as that is obviously more favourable. Finding a let for 2/3 months is practically impossible and in any event short term rental prices are far too high.

[fletchj]

Thanks for the advice, it is exactly as I thought. Even if I only need a let for 2 or 3 months I will have to commit to 6 months and probably have to give the impression I am a long term tenant as that is obviously more favourable. Finding a let for 2/3 months is practically impossible and in any event short term rental prices are far too high.

Not really - approach some landlords/agents and offer somewhat above the odds for a three month AST - plus 20% sounds about right, possibly offer to pay the whole three months up front. In other words make the proposition attractive.

If you think about it what you are doing by taking a 6 month AST when you only want it for 3 is exposing yourself to is potentially paying up to 100% over the odds.

If you do go down that route there is another advantage which I used. If you buy the new house but still have the rental property that gives you some time to do any DIY or building works on the new place when you havn't physically moved in which can make it a comparitively painless experience.

[bjh21]

Hi,

I have recently completed on my flat, however I wont be moving in until September '11. I would like to let my property out for 6 months just to get some income rather than let it sit empty.

I haven't yet told my mortgage lender and I'm unsure as to whether to do this or not. All the payments will be made on time etc and again the lease will only be for 6 months. Which brings me on to my next question: Do I offer the flat out on a 12 month contract with a 6 month break or be upfront and say its only for 6 months narrowing the chance of letting?

Advice is much appreciated!

Thanks

[fletchj]

6 month rentals are pretty usual so it shouldn't make much difference.

Note that it is not just the mortage lender you should tell, you should also:
- check your lease allows it and if it requires agreement frome the freeholder
- your insurers
- get a gas safety cert if it has gas
- probably get an electricity check

If you are a novice doing the whole thing through an agent might be money well spent.

[Mrs Mug]

Note that it is not just the mortage lender you should tell, you should also:
- check your lease allows it and if it requires agreement frome the freeholder
- your insurers
- get a gas safety cert if it has gas
- probably get an electricity check

And don't forget to inform HMRC, so you can pay tax on your rental income.

[MrJohnnyB]

Seeing as the Bank has a charge on the property no doubt I'd have thought they would refuse any letting where you've not used a buy to let mortgage in any event, or try and charge you some astronomical fee!

[jeffrey]

Is there really any point to this sub-letting? What with all the attendant costs and hassle, inc. potential to have months of wrangling in trying to remove a recalcitrant T, maybe leaving the flat vacant has a lot to commend itself!

[Sunbeam]

I think that to be fair to any potential tenant(s) you should make clear that the flat is ONLY available for six months. Why would you consider offering the flat for twelve months when you have absolutely no intention of actually giving more than six? I know that 'things happen' and circumstances change, thus the reason for the existence of break clauses, but to knowingly sign an agreement for twelve when you don't ever intend to rent for twelve is unfair to the tenant.

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but having previously been a victim of a duplicitous landlord who knowingly mislead us as to the length of time that the property was available this is, in my opinion, the type thing that has the potential to give landlords a bad name.

[MrJohnnyB]

I think that to be fair to any potential tenant(s) you should make clear that the flat is ONLY available for six months. Why would you consider offering the flat for twelve months when you have absolutely no intention of actually giving more than six? I know that 'things happen' and circumstances change, thus the reason for the existence of break clauses, but to knowingly sign an agreement for twelve when you don't ever intend to rent for twelve is unfair to the tenant.

Sorry if I sound a bit harsh, but having previously been a victim of a duplicitous landlord who knowingly mislead us as to the length of time that the property was available this is, in my opinion, the type thing that has the potential to give landlords a bad name.

The problem arises when tenant cant be bothered to find somewhere new and decides to stay on without paying rent. It would take the LL at least 4 months to gain vacant possession which would take him well past his september deadline. All in all i don't really think its that good of an idea.

[robbo1971]

Can you sign a prospective tenant up on a 3 month tenancy agreement, as oppose to a 6 month term?

Also if you have a uncooperative tenant behind on his rent who has signed a 6 month AST, what is the quickest route of getting them out your property. If communication breaks down and they aren't willing to pay their way whats the next course of action? I am led to believe a s8 should be served if they haven't paid up within 2 weeks, or would a s21 route be more feasible?


Appreciate any feedback

SR

[jeffrey]

Can you sign a prospective tenant up on a 3 month tenancy agreement, as oppose to a 6 month term?
Yes, even on an AST but L cannot obtain 's.21' possession until at least six months from its start.


Also if you have a uncooperative tenant behind on his rent who has signed a 6 month AST, what is the quickest route of getting them out your property. If communication breaks down and they aren't willing to pay their way whats the next course of action? I am led to believe a s8 should be served if they haven't paid up within 2 weeks, or would a s21 route be more feasible?
You can use either or both.
If T owes two months' rent (or more), s.8 is better- because the 'waiting' period is only two weeks.
If the fixed term has months unexpired, s.8 is better- because L cannot obtain 's.21' possession until the fixed term expires.

[robbo1971]

Ok thanks for that.

However if you use a 3 month AST contract, and rent arrears become an issue. What course of action to you follow to 1) Evict the tenant and 2) reclaim your lost rent. Would it be the s8 route as a s21 according to you is invalid?

[jeffrey]

As before: either. The 'six-month' rule does not apply to the s.8 Notice procedure.

[Moderator1]

Several largely similar questions on separate threads have been merged into this thread (hence the repetitive nature of answers).

[jhoney]

You could always look for a lodger arrangement somewhere near your home/workplace.
These are more flexible as the Housing Act does not apply. However you are not afforded the same protection (from eviction) as a tenant.

See http://www.lodgerlandlord.co.ukfor more information

[Ericthelobster]

As before: either. The 'six-month' rule does not apply to the s.8 Notice procedure.But to clarify for the OP, assuming you're still within the 3-month fixed term (or indeed, still within 6 months of the start of the tenancy) which is presumably the situation here? - no you can't use S21. But still certainly worth serving it as a backup though, in case the S8 fails (which it could).

[jeffrey]

But to clarify for the OP, assuming you're still within the 3-month fixed term (or indeed, still within 6 months of the start of the tenancy) which is presumably the situation here? - no you can't use S21. But still certainly worth serving it as a backup though, in case the S8 fails (which it could).
To clarify even that: L can use s.21, and can serve a s.21(1)(b) Notice on T, during an AST's fixed term;
but no Possession Order will operate until at least the six-month point.

[Colinsedgewick]

I have a property that is on the market but am aware in the current climate it may take some time to sell. I have people interested in renting the property while it is up for sale on the understanding that they pay a lower rent and in return they a) allow any prospective buyers to view the place b) understand they will need to move out if a sale goes through and is completed.

Does anyone have a contract template for this sort of short / temp lease, or any advice, anything I need to look out for as the last thing I want is to sell the place but have a tenant who will not leave.


Thank you in advance.

[Snorkerz]

If you are non-resident, the only way to remove a tenant who will not go is with a court order (and bailiffs). And, providing the tenant has not breached any terms and conditions, then you will not get a court order for possession within the first 6 months of a tenancy. Even if your prospective tenants agree to something different, it will not be enforceable as statute takes precedence.

If you are not familiar with the rights/responsibilities of landlords and tenants then I suggest you would be better leaving the property empty and in pristine condition to attract buyers.

[Colinsedgewick]

If you are non-resident, the only way to remove a tenant who will not go is with a court order (and bailiffs). And, providing the tenant has not breached any terms and conditions, then you will not get a court order for possession within the first 6 months of a tenancy. Even if your prospective tenants agree to something different, it will not be enforceable as statute takes precedence.

If you are not familiar with the rights/responsibilities of landlords and tenants then I suggest you would be better leaving the property empty and in pristine condition to attract buyers.

I think I may leave it as long as I can without a tenant at least then I know if there are any viewings the place will be spotless! I can afford to do this for a few months.
Many thanks for your advice, I will take it on board.

[jeffrey]

Do you own-occupy, or (if it is vacant now) did you ever-occupy?

[Colinsedgewick]

Do you own-occupy, or (if it is vacant now) did you ever-occupy?

I do own it (with a mortgage) and have been letting it out for the last five or so years. My current tenants are leaving this month and it is now up for sale. I lived in the property from 2002 to 2005 approx.

[jeffrey]

I lived in the property from 2002 to 2005 approx.
That's the bit that I needed! You can grant a very short fixed-term SAT, preceded by a Notice under ground 1.
On term expiry, even earlier than six months, you'll have an automatic right to vacant possession (akin to s.21).

PLUS no need to protect any deposit (applies to AST only!)

[Snorkerz]

That's the bit that I needed! You can grant a very short fixed-term SAT, preceded by a Notice under ground 1.
On term expiry, even earlier than six months, you'll have an automatic right to vacant possession (akin to s.21).

PLUS no need to protect any deposit (applies to AST only!)Okay, but there would still be need for a court order if Ts decided they weren't going.

[jeffrey]

Okay, but there would still be need for a court order if Ts decided they weren't going.
Yes- that's inevitably the case in every scenario, I regret!

[Colinsedgewick]

That's the bit that I needed! You can grant a very short fixed-term SAT, preceded by a Notice under ground 1.
On term expiry, even earlier than six months, you'll have an automatic right to vacant possession (akin to s.21).

PLUS no need to protect any deposit (applies to AST only!)

That's very good news, do you know where I could get a template contract for this?
Thanks for you help.

[jeffrey]

Use an AST but modify it (correctly; best to obtain proper advice and not DiY).

[Colinsedgewick]

Use an AST but modify it (correctly; best to obtain proper advice and not DiY).

Many thanks for your help. I have amended an AST and wonder if you would look over it. Absolutely understand if you would rather not and recommend I get a solicitor to check it over.
Regards.

[jeffrey]

You can contact me if you wish; see footer part 2.

[zwypl]

Can anyone please confirm that this is correct:

(Since Feb 28 1997,) there is no longer any minimum term of letting for an AST. However it should be noted that the landlord letting under a short letting (i.e. less than six months) cannot gain possession of the property through the courts until six months have elapsed since the original tenancy was granted.

[Snorkerz]

Yes it is almost correct.

A slight proviso to the second sentence, that only applies to s21 - section 8 can be used at any time.

[jjlandlord]

This is correct.