How to terminate Letting Agency Agreement?

[andrewm]

What are the rules on going around agents? We have a situation where we have been unimpressed and taken to boiling point by some of the practices by a certain agent beginning with the letter 'F' since we instructed them on our property. Won't go into specifics as we may have to sue them.

We have direct contact with a prospective tenant, but they 'found' the property through the agent. Nothing is signed by either ourselves or the prospective tenant, and we did not sign a terms of business agreement when we instructed the agent. I would much like to propose to the tenant the possibility of taking this agent out of the equation.

[samantha1609]

If you have not signed any terms and conditions with the "F" company, then they will have an extremely hard time trying to bind you to them!!

Unless of course it's the "F" company that were on that TV programme last year who were filmed faking documents??!! (What a bunch of t**ts). (Do i have to include allegedly if it was filmed I wonder?)

What level of management service did you originally instruct them to undertake??

[Paul_f]

There is no legal requirement to furnish a landlord with any terms of business in writing, and an oral contract can exist. If the agents (is it's Foxtons we're talking about here?) do not beloing to one of the three main regulatory bodies (where is is compulsory to have a written terms of business) then it's up to them if you are given a written TOB. If your agent has sent you a TOB then it could be binding if you haven't refuted it. If the tenant was introduced by them then you could be liable for their fee, but in the apparent absence of anything concrete it's one person's word against another.

[coloumb]

We had a few minor problems with our tenant and decided we would get our flat properly managed by a "professional" firm. Whenever I try and get them to do anything (like making sure the tenant is keeping the garden neat and tidy, as per the contract, or try to make arrangements to visit the flat for repairs) all i get is "we emailed the tenant but have not heard anything" or just nothing at all. Often weeks will go by and unless I hassle the agency things just drift. I asked them to sort out the rent increase a month ago but have heard nothing. They make a big deal out of being pro-active but seem to do little other than eat into my profits.

I'm thinking of chucking it in with them as it less hassle just to go back to dealing with the tenant direct.

Anyone got any advice?

Thanks!

[jeffrey]

Start with the Agency Agreement. What does it demand of them? Either:
a. it requires them to do things that they aren't doing; or
b. it does not require them to do things that you now want them to do.

If 'a', they are in breach. You should be able to threaten termination if they don't fall into line at once.
If 'b', tough. You shouldn't have signed an Agreement which you knew was inadequate for your needs.

[coloumb]

Thanks jeffrey. The contract clearly states that they will manage the property pro actively and leave nothing incomplete. I would say they are in breach.

[Paul_f]

Yes! But what does manage it pro-actively mean? A good TOB actually specfies what the agent will do for their monthly management fee. Crap agents use general terms that are next to useless.

[Jo2050]

Hi, we are renting our house through an estate agent, in 3 months time our current tenants lease will come to an end and we have had some interest to rent the property privately.

My question is how much notice do we have to give the estate agents to say that we won't be needing them anymore?

Sorry if this is a dumb question but any help would be appreciated.

Jo

[Mrs Jones]

What does your agreement with the Estate Agent say??

[Jo2050]

We were never given a copy of this,the original is with the estate agents and so I don't remember.

Jo

[jeffrey]

We were never given a copy of this,the original is with the estate agents and so I don't remember.

Jo

So how can you (let alone we) answer the question? Ask Agent for a copy!

[Poppy35]

if your current tenants AST is coming to end and they are vacating their management ends on the day the tenancy ceases so just tell the agent you dont want to re-let the property - simple!

[jeffrey]

if your current tenants AST is coming to end and they are vacating their management ends on the day the tenancy ceases so just tell the agent you dont want to re-let the property - simple!

Nothing is ever simple when dealing with Agent who seeks further commission...

[Southcoast Landlord]

From memory, I think a contract I had with an agent said that I was not allowed to let the property to the same tenant within 6 months of the contract expiring.
Of course, they may not find out about this ;)

Cheers
Lee

[jeffrey]

From memory, I think a contract I had with an agent said that I was not allowed to let the property to the same tenant within 6 months of the contract expiring.
Of course, they may not find out about this.
...or they might, and then they'll sue you. Dishonesty, on your part or theirs, has nothing to commend it.

[Southcoast Landlord]

...or they might, and then they'll sue you. Dishonesty, on your part or theirs, has nothing to commend it.

I agree with you Jeffery - was just saying what some people may think.
The agents are normally aware that these occasions may arise, so probably have the contract sewn up!

Cheers
Lee

[agent46]

From memory, I think a contract I had with an agent said that I was not allowed to let the property to the same tenant within 6 months of the contract expiring.
Of course, they may not find out about this ;)

Cheers
Lee

Unless of course they happen to browse this forum and recognise your name and that unusual clause.


...or they might, and then they'll sue you. Dishonesty, on your part or theirs, has nothing to commend it.


......+1

[jeffrey]

......+1
Six dots, a 'plus' sign, and a '1'.
Whatever can it mean? Clearly, the agent is more secret than we others.

[agent46]

Six dots, a 'plus' sign, and a '1'.
Whatever can it mean? Clearly, the agent is more secret than we others.

I can remove my cloak of secrecy and explain those mystic runes.

My original post was simply "+1", which, I understand, is forum-speak for "I also agree with the above sentiment".

However, upon posting, I received a "Post too short" message, so I added some dots. Regrettably, the forum server's appetite for characters was not sated by the addition of these dots, so I added more, yet still the server screamed "FEED ME!". So, in an attempt to sooth the breast of the savage beast, I decided to quote SCL's post, but it seems I forgot to remove the dots before clicking "submit".

[Jo2050]

Thanks for all your replies

[Reading_up]

Hi Jo2050,

Be very careful when splitting with your estate agent. I have had no signed contract and was given a brouchure explaining what they did. Due to accepting the rent via them I am obligated to their terms, which were not explained at the time. Unusually, even though the agreement is weighted in their favour, it seems they are being very amicable and I intend on using them again when the market picks up.

[Poppy35]

Nothing is ever simple when dealing with Agent who seeks further commission...

how an an agent seek further commision when the tenants have left? cant understand how on earth they could be entitled to more commission when the contract has ceased!

but then im a nice agent!

[agent46]

how an an agent seek further commision when the tenants have left? cant understand how on earth they could be entitled to more commission when the contract has ceased!

but then im a nice agent!

The contract hasn't ceased. The agreement provides (paraphrasing) that the LA will be entitled to a fee so long as there is any tenancy between the LL and the tenants. Clearly there is still such a tenancy, ergo, the contract between the LA and the LL is continuing. The contract will end when the tenants vacate.

[Actionjackson]

For the last 2 years ive left a property with a LA who found and managed the tenant but now, coming to the end of the agreement between myself and the LA ive decided to manage the property myself.
The question is can i keep the tenants and draw up my own AST with them when the agreement between myself and LA ends.

[J4L]

You should be able to give your agent notice, check in the documentation you signed to verify what notice is required.

[jeffrey]

For the last 2 years ive left a property with a LA who found and managed the tenant but now, coming to the end of the agreement between myself and the LA ive decided to manage the property myself.
The question is can i keep the tenants and draw up my own AST with them when the agreement between myself and LA ends.
Remember that, as L, you have quite separate contract relationships with:
a. Agent (Agency Agreement); and
b. tenant (AST etc.)
You can certainly have b without a.

[Actionjackson]

Hi all,
Ive been informed by my LA that at the end of our contract (between LA and L) if i wish to keep the T and write up a contract between L and T (managing myself) then there will be a charge.
Apparantly there is a clause in the contract i was unaware of which states i will have to pay a fee of up to 6 months rent if i do so, and i cannot use their T for 6 months.
Has anyone heard of anything similar from other LA'S?

[J4L]

Oh yeh ALL the time

Dig your contract out and find it, I don't know legally if this would stand up if contested because I haven't legal knowledge but 'unfair terms' are screaming around in my head.
I'm sure jeffrey or one of the other legal bods will be on to answer.

[londonagent]

it does seem unfair to me. As an agent i distinguish between the actual tenancy (finding tenants, contracts etc.) and the management of the property. I would require 3 month's notice of management. after that you would manage the property yourself.
with regard to the contract, then I would have thought it was in your name, not the agents but they may have a case for renewal fees etc.

[Actionjackson]

If the T was to end the contract with LA would the contract between the LL and LA become void, therefore legally i could re-let to the same T under an AST. Any suggestions?

[J4L]

I'm sure you'll probably find that the Tenant hasn't got a contract with the Agent.
The Tenancy is between you and the Tenant, regardless of who writes it up.

[Actionjackson]

I think there is a contract between LA and T although not 100% sure.
My main concern is the fees to the LA if i decide to manage the property myself with the same T.
The LA informs me there is a clause in the contract that states i cannot use their T, if i do, fees will be incurred for the sum of up to 6 months rent.
If i want to manage my property myself surely i should be allowed under any circumstances without being charged for it, even if i do decide to draw a separate contract up with their T.
Or is this a classic case of the L being tied down and the LA having the upper hand once the initial contract is set up.

[J4L]

There CANNOT be a contract with the Tenant and the Letting Agent.
If there is what could it possibly be FOR!!!!

[jeffrey]

There CANNOT be a contract with the Tenant and the Letting Agent.
If there is what could it possibly be FOR!!!!
I agree. L has separate contracts with A (the Agency Agreement) and with T (the Tenancy Agreement). See post #3.

[Actionjackson]

I understand that.
If the T was to give notice to the LA would the contract be void. Then could i draw up a contract with the same T without incurring fees? yes/no

[J4L]

I don't know how agents get away with writing such garbage into their contracts with LL's, but it may be legal, (I'm not 100% sure) how can they expect to claim management fees when they are not managing.

I think your best bet is to speak to the T, tell them not to pay their rent to the Agent any more and to give it to you directly.
The reason for this?
The Agent is collecting the rent and it goes directly into their account. When you give them notice they'll automatically deduct their 6 months fees and give you what's left (if there is any) The problem you have is that YOU will have to take them to court to prove that their terms are unfair or follow other lines to try and recover your money.
If YOU collect the rent from now on then YOU will have the cash and it would be up to the agent to take you to court and prove that you owe them. This probably won't happen!!

If your Tenant gives notice (to YOU, via the LA) then you sign him into another AST you would still be breaching your contract with the LA (if infact that contract is deemed fair) So effectively you'd be going around the houses and ending up with the same result as you'd get from doing it as above.

Try the top approach first.

[londonagent]

I'm a bit confused. 6 month's rent or 6 month's fees? If you are cancelling the management contract, then it may be that they require 6 months notice and will charge you 6 month's agency fees. Collecting the rent direct won't change the fact that you have an agreement with the A. You will still owe them their fees and although it seems a bit of an excessive notice period (we require 3 month's notice) I am sure you signed the agreement.

[Actionjackson]

I can give the LA/T two months notice anytime, but ive been informed by the LA that i cannot house their tenant for 6 months after termination of contract and if i do i could face a penalty for the sum of up to 6 months rent.
I want to manage myself housing the same T but the LA obviously dont want this and have put this clause in the contract to prevent the L having anything to do with their T. This seems unfair to say the least.

[J4L]

This is not THEIR tenant, it's yours, they are in your property and the rent is payable to you.
Up to now you have chosen for this LA to manage the proprty and collect the rent on your behalf. NOW you have decided to change that.
The Tenant still remains YOURS.

Follow all the advice given so far, go it alone, and tell this agent to go run!!

[Actionjackson]

Just looking through the contract agreement with the LA:

Clause 23: The LL shall not enter into any tenancy agreement or contractual commitment in respect of the property with any subtenant of the tenant(LA) either during or upto six months after the term of this agreement.

Clause 24: In the event that the LL does enter into a tenency agreement or contractual commitment in contravention of the terms of clause 23 hereof then the tenant(LA) shall be entitled to claim compensation from the LL by way of liquidated damages in a sum equivalent to six months rent as defined in the agreement.

Are these clauses of any merit. Would they stand up in court?
It seems that i am unable to enter into any contract with the current T

[mind the gap]

There CANNOT be a contract with the Tenant and the Letting Agent.
If there is what could it possibly be FOR!!!!

For the finding of accommodation by the LA for the T?

When my daughter and friends went to a letting agent to find them a house, they had to pay a fee to the agent for finding the house, and I am pretty sure they had to sign a contract with said LA agreeing a) to pay an extortionate fee for the service provided (ie showing them a picture of a house and sending them to look round it by themselves!) and more significantly, b) agreeing that if they signed a tenancy agreement for the property, it had to be via the LA. In other words, they could not just view the property found for them by LA, then cut out the middleman and go straight to LL to sign a contract.

[J4L]

Agents CANNOT charge a Tenant a fee to 'find them a house'
This is against the law.
Agents can only take a fee against a 'particular' property from a prospective Tenant.

As to this!!!

a) to pay an extortionate fee for the service provided (ie showing them a picture of a house and sending them to look round it by themselves!) and more significantly, b) agreeing that if they signed a tenancy agreement for the property, it had to be via the LA.

I gues it's a 'contract' but I'd NEVER sign anything like that and certainly wouldn't issue such. If a Tenant bypassed me and signed an agreement i'd be chasing the LL anyway because the contract to let it is with me and them.

We take an admin fee (to cover referencing and credit checks etc) from Tenants of £100 ONCE they have chosen a house, they sign no contracts and do not part with any more money until they arrive at check in.

This £100 (I explain) is refundable if I feel that from their application form that we're not going to do business. If we see any potential problems from this form we attempt to sort them before we commence referencing & credit checks.
No signed/written contracts, just a verbal agreement, and we've never had any problems/complaints about it.

I'm sure someone will pick me up on any legal issues if I'm making any mistakes here.

[jeffrey]

Agents CANNOT charge a Tenant a fee to 'find them a house'
This is against the law.
Agents can only take a fee against a 'particular' property from a prospective Tenant.

As to this!!!

a) to pay an extortionate fee for the service provided (ie showing them a picture of a house and sending them to look round it by themselves!) and more significantly, b) agreeing that if they signed a tenancy agreement for the property, it had to be via the LA.

I gues it's a 'contract' but I'd NEVER sign anything like that and certainly wouldn't issue such. If a Tenant bypassed me and signed an agreement i'd be chasing the LL anyway because the contract to let it is with me and them.

We take an admin fee (to cover referencing and credit checks etc) from Tenants of £100 ONCE they have chosen a house, they sign no contracts and do not part with any more money until they arrive at check in.

This £100 (I explain) is refundable if I feel that from their application form that we're not going to do business. If we see any potential problems from this form we attempt to sort them before we commence referencing & credit checks.
No signed/written contracts, just a verbal agreement, and we've never had any problems/complaints about it.

I'm sure someone will pick me up on any legal issues if I'm making any mistakes here.
I agree. See Accommodation Agencies Act 1953: s.1 makes it a criminal offence for A to demand* or accept "money in consideration of:
a. registering...the name or requirements of any person seeking [a] tenancy of [dwelling]; or
b. supplying...addresses or other particulars of [dwellings] to let;"

or for A "to issue any advertisement, list, or other document describing any [dwelling] as being to let without the authority of the owner..."

*- except from owner

[wolvertonlandlord]

I think there is a contract between LA and T although not 100% sure.
My main concern is the fees to the LA if i decide to manage the property myself with the same T.
The LA informs me there is a clause in the contract that states i cannot use their T, if i do, fees will be incurred for the sum of up to 6 months rent.
If i want to manage my property myself surely i should be allowed under any circumstances without being charged for it, even if i do decide to draw a separate contract up with their T.
Or is this a classic case of the L being tied down and the LA having the upper hand once the initial contract is set up.

It does sound a tad like the Agency are trying to take the mickey; is it worth asking your local trading standards people?

[jackboy]

Somebody i know signed up to a full management contract @6% and had a tenant move in on a 6 months contract. The 6 months has now expired and the landlord now wishes to manage the property himself. The letting agency is refusing saying the contract is for the full year and he cannot have a refund (the total amount was taken up front).

Is there any way out for him?

Cheers

[mind the gap]

Somebody i know signed up to a full management contract @6% and had a tenant move in on a 6 months contract. The 6 months has now expired and the landlord now wishes to manage the property himself. The letting agency is refusing saying the contract is for the full year and he cannot have a refund (the total amount was taken up front).

Is there any way out for him?

Cheers

Not if the contract he signed with the letting agency says that he engages their services for twelve months, no.

He needs to read the contract carefully.

[Dred]

Hello

I rented out my house (first time and experience of letting out property) last December with a local letting agent. The tenant is now about to complete the 2nd 6 month contract. We have had no problems at all with the tenant in fact she has been fantastic, the place looks nicer than when we lived there ourselves and she always pays on time.

When we first took on the letting agent although they are tasked with 'managing' the property my wife does it really, as we wanted to be in control of the costs of getting any work done rather than just receiving the rental income minus the fees every month without not knowing what was going on. Plus my wife only lives round the corner and she has the time to dedicate to doing it. Her father and and my wife can sort most minor problems out with house, so it doesn't cost us anything.

Anyway we told the agent we wanted to put the rent up £25 from £525 to £550 as i felt the tenant had got it below market value anyway (we were desperate to get a tenant in there) and she has had it for a year with no increases (as legally we couldn't anyway). The tenant wrote back to the agent saying that she was quite surprised to see such an increase and she can't afford to pay that amount, basically going on to say that she really doesn't want to leave as she loves the house and the tenant and her daughter treat it as home etc etc.

We phoned the tenant direct to discuss this as we definitely dont want to lose her even if it meant not increasing the rent at all (however i feel that it should go up by at least £10). She went on to say that she wasn't entirely happy with the agent as they want to charge her £75 for renewing the contract/inspection (at the last inspection that didn't do anything she said - they didn't even look upstairs) and she'd struggle to afford that as well as the rental increase so close to Christmas. She suggested could we cut the agent out of the loop and pay us direct thus saving her the £75 (she thinks - but i may have to pay to get a tenancy agreement drawn up) and then i would also be getting more money per month. She quite rightly states it would make sense as she phones my wife directly anyway if there is any problems with the property.

I believe her to be a first time tenant and we are first time landlords, so it was nice to have the security of a letting agent, however i do think that it would be worth doing it on our own as we do all the work anyway.

The agent (as per most i guess) doesn't offer any legal advice if the tenant defaults, so i would still have to pay soliciter fees if i had a problem with the tenant in that respect.

Few questions:
1 - As we are coming to the end of the 2nd tenancy agreement anyway can i just cut all ties with the agent, it doesn't really mention in the contract that i can't? I wouldn't have to pay anything would i?

2 - The agent holds the deposit in the normal scheme, would it be possible for me to just keep it there and for me to take control/or be the contact person for it rather than agent? Is that how it would work?

3 - Are there any other legal obligations or paperwork i need to do except the tenancy agreement and ensuring the gas certification is up to date?

4 - We are also moving away from the area in a few months so wont be able just to pop round, but we would still have people in the area that could and surely it wouldn't be too hard just to contact a local workman to do any works that would be required.

5 - It states in the current contract that if the tenant were to leave before the end of the agreement they are liable to pay rental costs till the end, re-letting costs and bills for the property during that period. Is that normal to have that in a tenancy agreement?

6 - Do most people who manage themselves draw up their own tenancy agreements or do they get a soliciter to do it for them? If they do it themselves how do they know what to include - I have seen a few examples on the internet and you can pay for some as well - but not sure whether to trust them or not and i dont mind paying for one, but not sure where the best place to get it is. Having to pay a soliciter to draw one up for me would possibly defeat the object of getting rid of the agent in the first place.

Any help would be most appreciated, i need to move quickly if i'm going to take this on myself as the renewal is due very shortly.

Many Thanks

[mind the gap]

Hello

I rented out my house (first time and experience of letting out property) last December with a local letting agent. The tenant is now about to complete the 2nd 6 month contract. We have had no problems at all with the tenant in fact she has been fantastic, the place looks nicer than when we lived there ourselves and she always pays on time.

When we first took on the letting agent although they are tasked with 'managing' the property my wife does it really, as we wanted to be in control of the costs of getting any work done rather than just receiving the rental income minus the fees every month without not knowing what was going on. Plus my wife only lives round the corner and she has the time to dedicate to doing it. Her father and and my wife can sort most minor problems out with house, so it doesn't cost us anything.

Anyway we told the agent we wanted to put the rent up £25 from £525 to £550 as i felt the tenant had got it below market value anyway (we were desperate to get a tenant in there) and she has had it for a year with no increases (as legally we couldn't anyway). The tenant wrote back to the agent saying that she was quite surprised to see such an increase and she can't afford to pay that amount, basically going on to say that she really doesn't want to leave as she loves the house and the tenant and her daughter treat it as home etc etc.

We phoned the tenant direct to discuss this as we definitely dont want to lose her even if it meant not increasing the rent at all (however i feel that it should go up by at least £10). She went on to say that she wasn't entirely happy with the agent as they want to charge her £75 for renewing the contract/inspection (at the last inspection that didn't do anything she said - they didn't even look upstairs) and she'd struggle to afford that as well as the rental increase so close to Christmas. She suggested could we cut the agent out of the loop and pay us direct thus saving her the £75 (she thinks - but i may have to pay to get a tenancy agreement drawn up) and then i would also be getting more money per month. She quite rightly states it would make sense as she phones my wife directly anyway if there is any problems with the property.

I believe her to be a first time tenant and we are first time landlords, so it was nice to have the security of a letting agent, however i do think that it would be worth doing it on our own as we do all the work anyway.

The agent (as per most i guess) doesn't offer any legal advice if the tenant defaults, so i would still have to pay soliciter fees if i had a problem with the tenant in that respect.

Few questions:
1 - As we are coming to the end of the 2nd tenancy agreement anyway can i just cut all ties with the agent, it doesn't really mention in the contract that i can't? I wouldn't have to pay anything would i? Are you sure there is no mention of a notice period in your contract with the agent? If not, then I would assume you can just termiante it at the end of the tenant's AST prior to re-letting to her with a new AST.
2 - The agent holds the deposit in the normal scheme, would it be possible for me to just keep it there and for me to take control/or be the contact person for it rather than agent? Is that how it would work? I think you will need to ask the agent for the details of the scheme in to which he has paid the deposit, then contact the scheme explaining that you are managing the property yourself now. Do you know which scheme is it, incidentally?
3 - Are there any other legal obligations or paperwork i need to do except the tenancy agreement and ensuring the gas certification is up to date? You need an Energy Performance Certificate for any new letting after 1.10.08
4 - We are also moving away from the area in a few months so wont be able just to pop round, but we would still have people in the area that could and surely it wouldn't be too hard just to contact a local workman to do any works that would be required.

5 - It states in the current contract that if the tenant were to leave before the end of the agreement they are liable to pay rental costs till the end, re-letting costs and bills for the property during that period. Is that normal to have that in a tenancy agreement? Yes, otherwise, what's to stop your tenant just leaving? It's to protect you.
6 - Do most people who manage themselves draw up their own tenancy agreements or do they get a soliciter to do it for them? If they do it themselves how do they know what to include - I have seen a few examples on the internet and you can pay for some as well - but not sure whether to trust them or not and i dont mind paying for one, but not sure where the best place to get it is. Having to pay a soliciter to draw one up for me would possibly defeat the object of getting rid of the agent in the first place. Get a solicitor to draw one up if you feel happier, but it's not necessary - there are plenty of free or cheap ones available on line which you can use and adapt if you wish - we did this but gave it to our solicitor to check, which was a lot cheaper. Can't you just adapt the one she has used so far? She will have a copy. They are all pretty similar.
Any help would be most appreciated, i need to move quickly if i'm going to take this on myself as the renewal is due very shortly.

Many Thanks

Hope the advice in red helps

[Dred]

Thanks for your prompt advice and help.

1 - I will check again, but we can't seem to see anything. What is an AST?

2 - I'm not sure without asking them, all i know is we have to pay £50 every June i think it is to the agent, i'm sure it is probably the free one and they are pocketing the £50.

3 - Ah yes sorry we are aware of the energy performance certificate, however we were told by the agent that this only comes into force if we change tenants not by just renewing a tenancy agreement with the same tenant?


5 - So would you say all tenancy agreements have that clause in - "If the tenant leaves before the rental agreement ends they have to pay the remainder of the rent in full"?

6 - Dont suppose you have any links to the tenancy agreements you used? I presume the soliciter said it was alright?

Thanks again for your time.

[mind the gap]

Thanks for your prompt advice and help.

1 - I will check again, but we can't seem to see anything. What is an AST?

2 - I'm not sure without asking them, all i know is we have to pay £50 every June i think it is to the agent, i'm sure it is probably the free one and they are pocketing the £50.

3 - Ah yes sorry we are aware of the energy performance certificate, however we were told by the agent that this only comes into force if we change tenants not by just renewing a tenancy agreement with the same tenant?


5 - So would you say all tenancy agreements have that clause in - "If the tenant leaves before the rental agreement ends they have to pay the remainder of the rent in full"?

6 - Dont suppose you have any links to the tenancy agreements you used? I presume the soliciter said it was alright?

Thanks again for your time.

1 An AST is an Assured Shorthold Tenancy - the kind your tenant probably has (but you will need to read her existing contract to be sure. It will say on it).

2. Your tenant should have been supplied with details of the deposit protection scheme and her personal reference number for when she wants to get her deposit back. Might be simplest to ask her. If she knows nothing about it, agent is being incompetent. It's the LL's responsibility, in the end, to ensure deposits are protected and that tenants are given details. ASk agent what he's done with hers. Then contact scheme and inform of change of management. They may not be that bothered!

3. Not sure, thought it was if new TA issued. I'll check.

5 Yes, but what usually happens (if tenant leaves before end of fixed term for no good reason) is that LL does their best to re-let, than T is only liable for financial loss resulting from void period. Decide whether you want to include a break clause as well.

6 If you send me a private message on this forum's pm system, I will send you a copy of the one I use - but you will need to check it all carefully to make sure it's what you and your tenant want. For example, I've put a clause in mine stipulating no pets and no smoking - you may want to change things like that.

[Dred]

PM sent!

Thanks very much again for your time

[jeffrey]

1 An AST is an Assured Shorthold Tenancy - the kind your tenant probably has (but you will need to read her existing contract to be sure. It will say on it).
...except that what it says is NOT conclusive! See Schedule 1 to Housing Act 1988.
For instance, a letting at > £25 000 per year cannot be a letting within the Act (no matter what the Agreement says).

[mind the gap]

...except that what it says is NOT conclusive! See Schedule 1 to Housing Act 1988.
For instance, a letting at > £25 000 per year cannot be a letting within the Act (no matter what the Agreement says).

Thanks Jeffrey!

Also, re the EPC - Dred doesn't need one, in fact, as he's not advertising the property to a new tenant, even though a new AST will be signed.

[Dred]

I have now found in the contract a paragraph that relates to ending the agreement with the agent, but it doesn't quite make sense to me, perhaps someone could help who is more legally experienced and qualified then myself:

Terms of Management Appointment
"Except in cases where you intend to re-occupy the accomodation and where special arrangements are made, our appointment is for an agreed initial period and thereafter subject to three months notice to terminate on either side. We expect to be placed in sufficient funds at the commencement and, if necessary, during the term of the management, to enable us to meet all expenditure prior to the next rent collection".

The tenancy agreement (this is the 2nd 6 monthly one with the same tenant) expires on December 31st of this year and i definitely just want to do the management myself is there a way out? As i understand the terms above to mean that i am required to give them 3 months notice???

Could (as a last resort) just tell the agent that i am personally moving back into the property and just tell them i will sort it all out with the tenant myself?

Please help!

Thanks

[Paul_f]

There has been debate within the OFT I believe as to what constitutes a "reasonable" period to terminate a terms of business with an agent, and I think more than three months is open to challenge.

[Lawcruncher]

Except in cases where you intend to re-occupy the accomodation and where special arrangements are made, our appointment is for an agreed initial period and thereafter subject to three months notice to terminate on either side. We expect to be placed in sufficient funds at the commencement and, if necessary, during the term of the management, to enable us to meet all expenditure prior to the next rent collection.

This is rank amateurish drafting.

Except in cases where you intend to re-occupy the accomodation

So you tell the agent, "I intend to re-occupy in 2015. The appointment is at an end."

and where special arrangements are made

What is this supposed to mean? It seems to be saying "unless we otherwise agree" which is hardly worth saying as you can agree otherwise if you want to.

our appointment is for an agreed initial period

Is the initial period defined anywhere? Why is it stated to be agreed? It can hardly be for a period that is not agreed.

We expect etc

A sudden change of direction there.

[sensible]

Dred what are you going to do if and when if goes pear shaped?

From what it sounds to me you are just another landlord not getting enough rent to meet your mortgage payments and thus are trying to 'fleece' an agent out of his commission and are looking for every and any excuse to do so...

[Dred]

Guy's thanks for all the help, the letting agent have had no problem with me ending the agreement.

Sensible - I think you have the wrong end of the stick, in fact i don't think you grabbed hold of the stick in the first place! 'Fleece' a letting/estate agent!!! Are you joking? They fleece everyone else in the whole country! My opinion aside about what i think of estate/letting agents, the agent I had did do quite a good job. I have already said I have no complaints about that.

We decided when we rented our house out that we wanted to be in control of the costs, so my wife took on the responsibility of dealing with the agent about repairs etc, eventually this turned into a direct relationship with the tenant as the agent were not too good and quick at relaying messages.

I have an interest only mortgage which is on a base rate tracker, I have no problem with repaying the mortgage as whats left over after I have paid the mortgage and the letting agent goes straight to pay off the capital.

I eventually came to the conclusion that the Letting Agent (althought not their fault) were doing no work whatsoever for their 11% a month, so i may as well do it myself and i will take the extra money to help pay off the capital on my mortgage quicker.

If it goes pear shaped what was the letting agent going to do anyway? They have no one who is qualified legally and it clearly states in the contract that they could recommend a soliciter to me, but i would be responsible for all the costs.

[sensible]

Guy's thanks for all the help, the letting agent have had no problem with me ending the agreement.

Sensible - I think you have the wrong end of the stick, in fact i don't think you grabbed hold of the stick in the first place! 'Fleece' a letting/estate agent!!! Are you joking? They fleece everyone else in the whole country! My opinion aside about what i think of estate/letting agents, the agent I had did do quite a good job. I have already said I have no complaints about that.

We decided when we rented our house out that we wanted to be in control of the costs, so my wife took on the responsibility of dealing with the agent about repairs etc, eventually this turned into a direct relationship with the tenant as the agent were not too good and quick at relaying messages.

I have an interest only mortgage which is on a base rate tracker, I have no problem with repaying the mortgage as whats left over after I have paid the mortgage and the letting agent goes straight to pay off the capital.

I eventually came to the conclusion that the Letting Agent (althought not their fault) were doing no work whatsoever for their 11% a month, so i may as well do it myself and i will take the extra money to help pay off the capital on my mortgage quicker.

If it goes pear shaped what was the letting agent going to do anyway? They have no one who is qualified legally and it clearly states in the contract that they could recommend a soliciter to me, but i would be responsible for all the costs.

Dred - I think your opinion of letting agents is mirrored by many landlords however i'd love to know how agents fleece the whole country. In fact i dont, it's bound to be something ridiculous anyhow.

The bottom line is that you did (or should have) sign a contract with the letting agent. Now regardless of all the posters who are going to claim that the terms are unfair etc, you knew what you were signing so honour your agreement and stick to it. Unless you had a break out clause signed as an addition to your ML contract i dont see why the agent should simply let you walk away. Be a man and honour your word. Stop trying to make excuses.

A few of our landlords sign an additional break out clause specifying that after x amount of time they can take over management if they give us a months notice in writing. The result has been that none of them have took over management and they have all extended for another 6/12 months.

It will always be quicker to contact a tenant direct rather than have another party in the middle. Many of our landlords have excellent relationships with their tenants, all we ask is that we are kept upto date with any developements and agreements so that we can update our log if things go pear shaped.

What would the LA do if things go pear shaped? I suppose you keep a log of all communications and have years of experience and advice so that you can keep ourself out of trouble and on the right side of the law.

[Dred]

The letting agent you work for sounds very different to mine!

[Rebecca12]

Can anyone suggest where I might find fair & reasonable information regarding Termination of Instructions for inclusion in agency Terms of Business?

I've tried searching the forum and certainly found a lot of unfair ones. :rolleyes:

[Paul_f]

I've sent you a PM

[TiredLandlady]

Sensible,

Ditto - you sound different to my LA too.

See my thread

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=16454

What would you do with a LA like mine?

[CGS]

I am a landlord with 2 properties with the same agent, one in a 6 month contract the other out of contract but on a rolling notice, agent is a joke, I have never signed any contract/forms with them just the ast where do I stand in moving my 2 properties to another agent. Would like to keep current tenants as both been good.

[mind the gap]

I am a landlord with 2 properties with the same agent, one in a 6 month contract the other out of contract but on a rolling notice, agent is a joke, I have never signed any contract/forms with them just the ast where do I stand in moving my 2 properties to another agent. Would like to keep current tenants as both been good.

I assume you mean 'poor agent' as in 'useless agent' rather than 'impecunious' (although he may be this too if you take your business elsewhere).

If you have no contract with him I think he will find it hard to prove that you have any obligation to him at all.

[jeffrey]

I am a landlord with 2 properties with the same agent, one in a 6 month contract the other out of contract but on a rolling notice, agent is a joke, I have never signed any contract/forms with them just the ast where do I stand in moving my 2 properties to another agent. Would like to keep current tenants as both been good.
So, on Mind The Gap's analysis, you can terminate the agency. However, take care. In the absence of any written Agency Agreement, your termination has to fit-in with the course of dealings between you and A.

1. How have you been paying A so far?
2. At what intervals have you been paying A, or does A deduct fees from rent received?
3. Does A perform:
a. find-only service; or
b. full management?

[Eva.L]

Hello to All,

I apologies in advance if I go on but I will try to keep it as short as I can.

June last year and due to personal circumstances, I saw my self obliged to rent my house. As I had to travel i and out of the country, the agency offered me a full management services which they sold it to me as stress free and I had to do absolutely nothing as they would deal with all on my behalf, that was not the case!!!

I have had numerous issues with them from the start of the tenancy, having to contact the tenants my self to find out some information as they do not communicate with me that well.

A few months ago, I received a letter from the council saying that I had been summond to go to court for no paying my council tax bill luckily, I had some of the statements from the letting agen and I managed to sort it out.

I found out after that, that I was being chased by the utility companies as well to who I contacted but they wanted confirmation from the agent of who was living in the property,meter readings... I contacted them and emailed the manager directly who told me that he will sort it out personally. A couple of months ago, I received once again a bill, obviuosly was not done, and another bill was sent to me this month.

I have spoken to 2 different managers and they both as incompetent always making excuses.

I had problem getting the rent and have to chase it with them all the time.

They are part of NALS, who I call and would they contact them to send to me a complaint form, I have also requested the form directly from the LA but they keep ignoring my mails. I emailed NALS but again, they are not replying my email.

I emailed the agency to ask how long notice I had to give to the tenants as I did not want to rent the property any longer and they told me that I had to give 2 months. I gave 2 months notice in writing on an email as requested on the 16th February which I believe, have not been given to the tenants.

Since, the tenants have asked to give 1 month notice as they have financial difficulties and are falling in arrears but the agency has told me that even if I agree, they have a fixed term contract and they stated "we must serve them with the relevant notice being 2 months under a Section 21 (1)(b) Notice" which, as far as I new, that is what I thought I did on the 16th February.

I emailed them again explaining the above but instead of replying to my question, they told me that I have to pay management fees until the end of contract.

In the agreement, only states the payments they will be entitle should I finish the contract with a tenant but, it does not say nothing with regards if the property is vacant.

I have emailed them to tell them that as far as I can see there is nothing in the agreement with regards to that claw, that after all what they have "NOT DONE" i should be claiming for the fees I have paid back and that I would be seeking legal advise before I contact them again...

As far as I am concern, they have not done much.. can I finish my contract with them for breach of contract without any charges? Should they have given the 2 months notice to the tenants being part of the Sectin 21.. that they are talking about? If they haven't can I tell them that they have failed to follow my instructions and end the contract on those grounds? If it is nothing in the contract with regards to fees payable if finishing the contract without tenants in the property, can they make me pay those fees?

It is the first time that I have been a landlord and I do not know what to do...

Thanks a mill.

[jta]

How long was the initial contract with the tenants for?

How much rent is owed at present?

Management fees are usually a percentage of the rent, therefore no rent = no fees.

[Eva.L]

Thanks Jta,

Sorry to have bored you with the reading....

The contact was for 6 motnhs and it got renewed in December for another 6 months. The tenants had to pay on the 1st February but after I spoke to them because the agent "apparently" could not get hold of them, they paid on the 19th of the month and we had the money after a few emails to the agent on the 27th Feb. On the 1st March, they had to pay again but they haven't done it yet...I know is not that long but, the agency will not let me know unless I keep emailing them constandly and I have a mortgage to pay...

Thanks

[greenhouse]

How long was the initial contract with the tenants for?

How much rent is owed at present?

Management fees are usually a percentage of the rent, therefore no rent = no fees.

Can I ask, what happens if L.A. takes their management fees upfront? on a 12+months AST hv meant I've had literally no rental income, thats ok, because its understood/agreed as part of our co-oeration (LL & L.A) - but when tenants hv not been paying rent, ie in arrears, is it w/in reason that I may ask L.A. for some of the management fees back, esp as it's looking likely I will be bringing the AST to an early end due to rent arrears + Section 21 to be served at earliest opportunity (ie to comply with the min. 6months stay....) I'm prepared & accept managemnt fees UP TO the time the tenants move out, which if all goes well, shud mean I may ask for a refund of 12months management fees back. I've not discussed this yet with L.A. as priority in dealing with the arrears.... TIA for any advice/suggestion

[alisonelse]

We have been with a local letting agent for nearly 4 years. We have a Let and Rent Collection service which we are charged 12.5% per month plus an £80 fee every 6 months on renewal. The tenants are also charge £80 renewal every 6 months.

Is it possible to for the write to the agency giving them 14 days notice of termination of agreement saying they are in breach of their contract. The reason I would give is that the agents agreement says they will "Provide periodic visits on the property during the tenancy and forward a report to the landlord advising of the outcome of the visits. (Please note: Our periodic visists involve superficial inspection only to identify and obvious property defects or damage that might require attenetion by either landlord or tenant according to their obligations....".

We have never had one of these reports and as far as I know (from the tenants who call us if there is any problems) the agency have never been out to inspect the place. We are very lucky with these tenants as they keep the place spotless. They are happy to arrange the agreement between ourselves as it will save them money.

Do you think we may need to take legal advice on this one or can any on give me a bit of guidance.

Thank you

Alison

[jeffrey]

What does the Agency Agreement state about termination by the client?

[alisonelse]

The Agency Agreement states "Either party has the right to terminate this Agreement if the others shall be in material breach of its obligations under the Agreement and shall fail to remedy such breach withing 14 days notice of the breach received by the other party. In the event of the landlord wishing to terminate this Agreement to take over management of the property then 3 months notice will be required in writing together with a Release fee equivalent to one months rent - minimum charge £460 +VAT.

I hadn't ready ths bit properly till I just typed it out!!

[jeffrey]

The Agency Agreement states "Either party has the right to terminate this Agreement if the others shall be in material breach of its obligations under the Agreement and shall fail to remedy such breach withing 14 days notice of the breach received by the other party. In the event of the landlord wishing to terminate this Agreement to take over management of the property then 3 months notice will be required in writing together with a Release fee equivalent to one months rent - minimum charge £460 +VAT.

I hadn't ready ths bit properly till I just typed it out!!
But now you have; does it answer your query?

[Mrs Jones]

Golly - your 12.5% Let and Collect Rent is more than my agent charges for total management!!

[Maga]

As a landlord I have signed the management agreement but have never been provided with the copy of it. I have been told by the agent that I am going to receive the rent within 2 weeks after my tenant has paid (the tenant paid regularly by standing order). The agent has never paid promptly into my account and never visited the property for inspection. I had to call them every month and ask for my money. They have also never provided me with the receipts. Even after my solicitor asked them in a letter to send us the copy of the managemant agreement they did not respond and there was still one outstanding rent and no communication from them. Then my solicitor terminated the agreement and asked for the payment of the rent within the next 7 days.
I terminated due to the unacteptable service recived from agent and before doing so my solicitor asked the agent to provide us with the managemant agreement but the agent did not.
Now the agent refuses to pay the outstanding rent subject to termination fee refering to the management agreement which I have been not provided with before termination.
What can I do in order to get my money back? What is my legal position? Can the agent keep the rent as a withrawal fee in this case?

[Haggie]

My husband and I have a property rented out on an Assured Shorthold Agreement. The tenant has passed their 6 months and they are rolling on a months notice. We used an agent to find them, and paid a fee when the tenant first moved in.

My question is can I terminate the agreement with the agent, so I dont have to pay their fees again, after the tenant has been in the property for a year?

Thank you
Catherine

[Telometer]

Read the contract you have with your agent.

[gullarm4]

Hi all, have been lurking on the forum for a while reading the threads trying to get a definative answer to my situation. Mine is similar to alot of others but thought I'd post up as there seems to be alot of good feedback about and everyones circumstances are slightly different. I have tried to summarise as briefly as possible whilst retaining all the pertinent facts, if I have missed anything off please post a reply;

I have a property which I rent out, and have a property management contract with a letting agent (for last 6 years so have paid them quite a bit of money thus far). Current tenancy agreement ends on 18th May 2010. I now wish to self manage so, as per the contract, have given 3 months notice to terminate the agency contract and tenancy agreement (don't want them to renew tenancy or re-let). The current tenant is also not happy with letting agent and happy to sign new AST with me direct. Letting agent has acknowledged my notice letter but said they will give notice to vacate to current tenant in order to hand back empty property.
Q1- can they do this?, there appears to be nothing explicit about this in the agency contract. Q2- the agency contract says if I enter into a tenancy agreement with someone introduced by them after terminating the agency contract (which I do as current tenant found by them) certain fees (presumably a finders fee) are still payable to them. Is this legal, even though I have given the required notice period?

many thanks in anticipation of your much appreciated feedback

gullarm

[adria]

I would like to terminate the Managed Property Agreement with my Agent. They sometimes keep the Rents beyond the agreed time before transfer to my bank account.

I am concerned that it could be a sign of impending financial problems there.

I presume the present tenant (who the agents found for me) will remain, renting my property on a periodic tenancy.

In the T&C`s it states exactly as follows;

Either party has the right to terminate this Agreement in writing:

Upon the Tenant`s vacation;

Or if the other party breaks any important term or condition of this Agreement during a Tenancy where monetary compensation is wholly inadequate.

You may withdraw your instructions to us to manage the Premises upon giving us one month’s written notice.

We may terminate our retainer immediately if you breach any of the Terms contained in this Agreement or in the event that you do or do not do something which makes it impossible, impracticable or illegal to continue providing these services.

We reserve the right to assign our rights and or obligations under this Agreement upon giving you one month’s written notice.

In all other circumstances, we will give you one month’s written notice and we will honour the current Agreement until the end of the current tenancy.


On the face of it, it looks quite straightforward but I am not sure. Can any of you see a potential problem here?
I am also concerned about the complication regarding my Tenants bond.

Any advice on how I should proceed, and whether I should expect any fees, would be greatly appreciated.

[jeffrey]

It says You may withdraw your instructions to us to manage the Premises upon giving us one month’s written notice. That seems fairly clear. When serving such Notice on A, also notify T that- as from one month after the date on which you serve A- all rent is to be paid direct to you. You'll also need to serve on T a Notice under s.48 of LTA 1987, giving an E&W address for yourself as the place to which T can send any Notices for you.

[Nixie]

After 3 years with management company placed in writing our wish to terminate our contract leaving the tenant in situ.

Gave 56 days notice and notified the tenant of our intentions.

We paid a setting up/location fee and also pay 12%+vat monthly management fees.
The contract finishes on the 01/07/11 but our notice terminates on the 09/05/11.

However I have been informed that in the T&C I signed it states
"If for any reason either party,Landlord or Agent should wish to terminate this contract after the tenant or tenants have been introduced,two months written notice must be given. However fees remain due and payable by the Landlord on any tenancy for which
managment has found a tenant until that tenant vacates the property"

Which now means to severe contract with the management company I have to serve a Section 21 notice on a perfectly good tenant to get rid of the management company.

Can someone explain an easier way to go about terminating a contract please?
And why if you can't terminate without removing a tenant you need to give 2 months notice and still have to pay someone to take a fee for doing nothing until you remove the tenant even when you have also paid them a set up/introduction fee?
This clause was conveniently placed right on page 6 of 6 when the signatures for the contract where on page 1.(own fault really but did not read it in the context I have found myslef in)
This looks like I could be permanantly attached to this company.

I am new to this and feel somewhere along the lines there must be "unfair terms".

Any help for this novice landlord would be greatly appreciated:)

[Moderator1]

Several largely similar questions on separate threads have been merged into this thread (hence the repetitive nature of answers).

[gatekeeperuk]

While signing the agreement, one must check the details thoroughly in the agreement.

[Nixie]

Thanks. I never imagined that I could be tied to a company on the grounds of introduction. Should have gone with the original gut instincts and paid the set up fee and then looked after the property myself!!
You live and learn. It a costly way to learn though...:-0