Planning Application refused due to Isolation.

[Wrong time to graduate!]

Hello,

We would be extremely grateful if anyone could help. Planning application to turn two old farm buildings (attached to the main farm building) into one holiday home and one rented house has provisionally been refused based on the isolation of the farm and sustainability issues. Even thought the farm is within a village and only 10 minutes drive from the centre of a substantial market town (bus route connects town to farm).

The farm is already a b&b and so it has been suggested that the outbuildings could be converted into B&B rooms (with no kitchen) and then converted into houses in four years, but I don't really understand this and the capital outlay doesn't seem possible for four years of little return.

Just to make this even more frustrating there are tenants already lined up wanting to live in the houses.

The main question is: does anyone know any solutions to refusal based on isolation?

Many thanks for any help anyone can provide.

[islandgirl]

Are you in green belt?

[Wrong time to graduate!]

I believe it is, anywhere online I can check? I've just tried the council's website with little luck.

[jeffrey]

If you hold your title deeds, from when you purchased, look at the Local Authority items. These should comprise:
a. form LLC1 [Local Land Charge Search result]; and
b. form CON29 (various types) [Local Authority enquiry replies].

The answer's in there, somewhere"- to borrow a phrase.

[islandgirl]

there will also probably be a local zoning plan at the council offices - find out and go and have a look! The refusal should also say if it is. Isolation seems a strange reason.

[Wrong time to graduate!]

I shall have to confirm the green belt issue.

I don't believe that the refusal said anything about the green belt, it focused on isolation and that is what has sent us for six. We cannot think of any soloutions, the council have said that two new isolated houses would introduce at least two new cars, which isn't sustainable.

The planning consultant has come up with various ideas including turning the outbuilding into an annex, extending the B&B etc etc, but non of the ideas make the investment worthwhile.

[pilman]

You mention a planning consultant, so has there been talk of an appeal against the refusal.
Every new house built will probably require access by cars belonging to the occupants, so saying that is non sustainable flies in the face of reality.
There would be no new houses built if that was the case.

It seems that there are two buildings that currently have no productive use which you want to convert to a productive use.
That is a sustainable use of existing structures.

What were all of the reasons given for refusal and what Local Plan policies were given as references for these reasons.
You should read these policies yourself before discussing the possible options with the planning consultant.

Even a B&B generates traffic movements, so on the logic that it is increased traffic movements that renders a proposed development unsustainable, there should be no permission granted to an application for B&B facilities in rural cottages and farmhouses.

You need to see what the whole refusal was based on before decided your next step.

[Planner]

As stated - please do post the reason(s) for refusal. 'Isolation' seems an odd one when they could have gone for something such as greenbelt/greenfield given that this is in effect brand new development you are propoisng - unless of course the 'isolation' wording appears within the local plan policy. To this end please also let us know which LPA it is please.

[Wrong time to graduate!]

Thank you for your patience.
Firstly, the property is not in the green belt.
Secondly, thank you planner for suggesting referring to the local plan. The local plan refers directly to the village where the Farm is. It states that there is need for housing, but this need has been fulfilled by an allocated site.
The refusal we received does not suggest this; it just refuses the application based on increased traffic and sustainability.
It would seem that all the housing needs for the village are being crammed into one mixed use site, which apparently reduces sustainability and traffic.
This looks like the end to any appeal.

[pilman]

Before you give up completely, did you see if there is a policy for conversion of existing buildings in the countryside.
That is often considered in a local plan, or in the Local Development Framework as it is now referred to.

An appeal does not incur a fee, so if you read the LDF to see if there is any case to argue that permission should have been given, because this is a conversion of existing buildings, you could undertake an appeal yourself if you did not want to employ the planning consultant to do it for you.
Using written representations you would then know that an impartial Inspector appointed by the Planning Inspectorate will decide the matter, although that inspector will refer to the LDF and Government guidelines for development in the countryside.

Even if there is only a slim chance of gaining a permission, making an appeal at low cost will be worth while, rather than just giving up at this stage.

As an alternative ask the LPA would a planning permission be more likely if you convert both buildings to create just one additional dwelling. That will deal with the additional traffic to some degree.
If you post the reasons for refusal, the other poster, who also seems to be involved in planning, if the name "planner " is anything to go by, may also offer some free advice.

[Interlaken]

I am surprised you planning consultant has not suggested an appeal. Like Pilman says it is a cheap way to move forward. If it is any consolation I have been turned down for planning consent 3 times in my developing career and won on appeal each time.

[quarterday]

The planners can be a bunch of so and so-es. I have won applications initially refused on appeal. Try to make an appointment to go and see a senior wallah, if not the senior wallah in the planning department.

Sometimes they can concede that a colleague has been unduly harsh but to avoid losing face will make some suggestions as to one or two revised features which might result in the authority seeing an application in a more favourable light. "Eco" is the flavour of the month. Explain to them you need lots of open ground for your ground source heat pump loops, and that you intend that your B and B is to be carbon neutral and so forth.

[Wrong time to graduate!]

Thank you Pilman

Here is what the LDF days:

Conversion of Rural Buildings

H7 Outside the defined limits of settlements, the conversion of buildings to
residential use will not be permitted unless;
(A) the building proposed to be converted is of permanent and
substantial construction and:
(1) is in keeping with its surroundings;
(2) has a size and structure suitable for conversion without
major rebuilding or significant extension and alteration;
(3) is unlikely to attract a suitable business re-use; and
32
(4) is sited near a public road;
(B) and the proposal:
(1) will not harm the architectural or historic qualities of the
building;
(2) does not involve the creation of a residential curtilage
which would harm the rural character of the area; and
(3) will not lead to a dispersal of activity on such a scale as to
prejudice town and village vitality.

3.40 Planning permission will not generally be granted for new housing in the countryside,
in line with policies S7 and H2. There are, however, occasions when this strict
control is set aside for the conversion of rural buildings to dwellings as set out in
PPG7. However, the preference is for economic, tourism or other employmentgenerating
uses, rather than residential. Accordingly, the policy sets out the
circumstances where an exception to the normal strict control is warranted. In
particular, the applicant will need to show that there is little likelihood of an
employment-generating use. This is likely to require information on marketing over
approximately 12 months. The requirements of this policy are in addition to the
general policies such as S1 and S7.

PPG7 encourages farm diversification, recognising that with the changing structure of
the agricultural industry farmers increasingly look to diversify beyond agriculture in
order to supplement their incomes. These ventures can add value to local produce
and help to widen the rural economic base, whilst maintaining local employment.
This policy allows for farm businesses to diversify their activities beyond those
ancillary to farming. Whilst activities may not be directly agricultural, they should
allow for the remaining farm business to continue to be run effectively. Proposals are
encouraged that secure the re-use of existing buildings. There are a number of other
policies that are particularly pertinent to proposals for farm diversification. The
requirements of those policies may be relevant to a particular case, with the outcome
of this being the control of certain activities.

Therefore, does residential count as diversification?

There hasn't been anyone who requires such a big dwelling, so the void periods may be substantial. The information you provided on a appeal is very interesting and certainly worth considering.

[Wrong time to graduate!]

Thank you interlaken and quarterday for sharing your experiences, it certainly makes an appeal more appealing.

[quarterday]

Eco tourism
That should be your theme!

[islandgirl]

Where I live there is a complete ban on changing farm buildings to residential. Other kind of conversions are allowed. You would have to come up with some very "special circumstances" to win the day around here!

[Always Problems]

I am surprised you planning consultant has not suggested an appeal. Like Pilman says it is a cheap way to move forward. If it is any consolation I have been turned down for planning consent 3 times in my developing career and won on appeal each time.

Absolutely. But is your "Planning Consultant" a RTPI. Town Planner. You may also have to go to a specialist. My sister did on her Farm. She once read an article in the Farmers Guardian on Planning and contacted them, This particular Chartered Town Planner who worked for a firm of Solicitors who dealt with Planning Problems occasionally wrote articles for the Farmers Guardian about "Changes of use to Agricultural Buildings" or other Farm based Planning Problems so she contacted him, and it was money well spent. This particular Planner has since retired but certainly I believe in asking around.

[islandgirl]

I know a fabulous one in Lancashire but that probably won't help you!

[pdk]

It is probaly best that you get proper advice... any proposal needs a robust PLANNING STRATEGY that takes into account all eventualities... including risks etc. Please touch base with me if you dont have help yet...

Regards,

PETER

NOTE: Peter Kyte BSC (Hons) DipTP MRTPI CGeog FRGS is an official LandlordZONE Topic Expert… For more information on Peter D Kyte Associates and Enabling Projects please see the websites at http://www.enablinguk.com and http://www.development-seekers.com. Any advice given by Peter Kyte in this Forum is of a general nature only and should not be taken to be a final and binding planning opinion. Based on any initial advice given you are strongly advised to seek a further professional opinion, which may involve a site visit and a detailed analysis of the issues... For information on the sort of work Peter undertakes please see TRACK RECORD (http://www.enablinguk.com/track.html), WORKING WITH INVESTORS (http://www.enablinguk.com/ur-property-investors-planning.html), and PROJECT TYPES (http://www.enablinguk.com/planning-project-permission-appeal-UK.html).. Please also see our range of URBAN PHOTOGRAPHS (FOTOG) (http://www.fotog.info).