Will hot water tank jacket improve energy rating?

[JK0]

Any EPC assessors out there?

I have a 1960's rental flat that I recently bought. On the hip it had an Energy Efficiency Rating of 38, with a potential rating of 53. This would be accomplished by

1.) Cavity wall insulation which has an Energy Efficiency Rating of 'E50' (whatever that means.)
2.) Add additional 80mm jacket over foam lagged hot water tank. This has an Energy Efficiency Rating of E51
3.) Low energy lighting for all fixed outlets. This has an Energy Efficiency Rating of E53

Now, so far, I have only done number 2. How can I calculate from the above figures if this will be sufficient to put the property in band E rather than F?

[mind the gap]

In the recommendations, the letter preceding the number (e.g. E53) means the energy efficiency band you would put the property into if you carried out that particular recommendation (but bear in mind that the improved ratings are are cumulative, ie, the figures assume you've done 1. first, then 2. next, etc).

However, in your case, by lagging the tank (but not putting in cavity wall insulation) you have added one percentage point to the EPC rating (the difference between Rec. 1 and Rec 2) and made it 39% - just into Band E (but still low).

The biggest improvement (from its current rating of 38 to a potential 50), would be cavity wall insulation.

Hope that helps.

[JK0]

Thanks MTG.

[Ericthelobster]

In the recommendations, the letter preceding the number (e.g. E53) means the energy efficiency band you would put the property into if you carried out that particular recommendation (but bear in mind that the improved ratings are are cumulative, ie, the figures assume you've done 1. first, then 2. next, etc).In which case that's another good example of how ill-conceived this whole scheme is, then... if whoever dreamed this up had half a brain, why would they not start with the low-cost, no-brainer stuff (ie changing the lightbulbs or adding a cylinder jacket) rather than fitting cavity wall insulation, which nobody will bother with on the grounds of prohibitive cost?

[midlandslandlord]

In which case that's another good example of how ill-conceived this whole scheme is, then... if whoever dreamed this up had half a brain, why would they not start with the low-cost, no-brainer stuff (ie changing the lightbulbs or adding a cylinder jacket) rather than fitting cavity wall insulation, which nobody will bother with on the grounds of prohibitive cost?

Agree that the scheme is more than slightly questionable, but perhaps it is about as good (i.e., a crude guess ignoring a lot of the facts) as you can get with visual only tick-box inspections?

I'd focus on the energy efficiency itself rather than just the EPC if it were my flat. Ran into that one when installing high spec cavity wall insulation, which was no better than the cheap stuff on the EPC.

Of course if it is rented out the EPC encourages you to find the cheapest solution that will make them tick the box, rather than the best or most efficient solution.

Why not rent it to someone entitled to free cavity wall insulation ? :-)

Also, for a flat there may be implications from which storey it is on and provisions in the lease. Check first.

ML

[JK0]

Thanks guys. Funnily enough, I recently had to remove a redundant flue from the wall, and could find no cavity. I guess the energy assessor just assumed the place would have one, going by the year it was built.

[Ericthelobster]

I recently had to remove a redundant flue from the wall, and could find no cavity. I guess the energy assessor just assumed the place would have one, going by the year it was built.I rest my case!

[mind the gap]

In which case that's another good example of how ill-conceived this whole scheme is, then... if whoever dreamed this up had half a brain, why would they not start with the low-cost, no-brainer stuff (ie changing the lightbulbs or adding a cylinder jacket) rather than fitting cavity wall insulation, which nobody will bother with on the grounds of prohibitive cost?

Sometimes they do. It depends on which measure would make the most significant difference. In OP's case, the cavity wall insulation would. That is why they list it first.

It might make it clearer for property owners if they showed separately how many percentage points different each measure by itself would make, rather than expressing them in a 'cumulative' list, but it is otherwise logical to state the measure with the most potential (to improve the rating) first in the list.

Also, in OP's case the cavity wall insulation would not have been suggested if it were 'prohibitively expensive' - all the measures recommended are ones which would pay for themselves within 5 years in terms of reduced consumption of energy. In some properties CWI would not be suggested, e.g. if the construction of the building made it impractical. But since the greatest amount of heat is lost through the exterior walls of property, it is to be expected that CWI (if practicable) will make the most difference to its energy efficiency.

Where there is no cavity to be insulated the next best solution is to dryline and/or insulate the exterior walls on the inside.

[mind the gap]

The way I see it is this.

Energy efficiency in this first decade of the 21st century is a bit like inside toilets in the first decade of the 20th. In those days, LLs would not have dreamed of providing each family with their own inside lavatory - it was expected that they would use one outside and possibly even share it with their neighbours.

How many tenants nowadays would agree to live in a property with no inside toilet?

So Grumpy Git LLs can whinge and moan and harrumph until they are blue in the face about energy efficiency and what a load of nonsense it is and who cares that their property is only 35% energy efficient, but one day in the not-too-distant-future they will ring their letting agent to ask why they haven't found them any tenants yet after their first ever void period..to be told that tenants are demanding not only inside toilets these days but EERs of at least 60% and that the ones which are going like hot cakes are the ones of 70% and above because all other things being equal, those properties will cost hundreds and hundreds less in energy bills each year.

In both university towns where I know the student market well, the uni accommodation offices have for the first time emailed all students seeking private rented accomm. to advise them to demand to see the EPC for any house/flat they are considering and to use the projected energy costs as a negotiating tool with LLs/agents. All the groups of students who have viewed our property have asked about the EPC this year. Apparently this is also happening in the two cities where my sons are students and some rents have had to come down this year as a result.

[Brixtonia]

In which case that's another good example of how ill-conceived this whole scheme is, then... if whoever dreamed this up had half a brain, why would they not start with the low-cost, no-brainer stuff (ie changing the lightbulbs or adding a cylinder jacket) rather than fitting cavity wall insulation, which nobody will bother with on the grounds of prohibitive cost?

Interestingly, changing the lightbulbs would not improve the rating. You would need to change the fittings to low energy fittings which cannot take standard ES or BC bulbs (whether low energy or incandescent).

[Ericthelobster]

Energy efficiency in this first decade of the 21st century is a bit like inside toilets in the first decade of the 20th. In those days, LLs would not have dreamed of providing each family with their own inside lavatory - it was expected that they would use one outside and possibly even share it with their neighbours.Well as late as the 1980s I was renting a room in a student house with just an outside privvy - mind you, very upmarket as we didn't need to share with the neighbours... :p

[Always Problems]

Going back to the original thread of "Will a hot water jacket improve my energy rating" in my attic my hot water tank is in a box. I can add insulation round it by using the 2" rigid foam sheets (King Span)and duct taping the joints, OR wrapping it with a sheet of Insulating Foil (ecoflex ?) but which will be better.

[mind the gap]

Well as late as the 1980s I was renting a room in a student house with just an outside privvy - mind you, very upmarket as we didn't need to share with the neighbours...

You were lucky..! . We 'ad to mek do wi' a sawn off lard-barrel in back yard, from t' chippy next door and share it wi' 'ole street of a hundred and fifty houses :D

[JK0]

Going back to the original thread of "Will a hot water jacket improve my energy rating" in my attic my hot water tank is in a box. I can add insulation round it by using the 2" rigid foam sheets (King Span)and duct taping the joints, OR wrapping it with a sheet of Insulating Foil (ecoflex ?) but which will be better.

I don't think I would use either of those. If your tank is an awkward shape, could you maybe build a larger box round it and fill with loose lay insulation? (Put some kind of lid on box so that loose lay doesn't blow away.)

Alternatively, what about buying two cold water tank jackets, and putting one over the other for extra warmth?

[Always Problems]

I don't think I would use either of those. If your tank is an awkward shape, could you maybe build a larger box round it and fill with loose lay insulation? (Put some kind of lid on box so that loose lay doesn't blow away.)

Alternatively, what about buying two cold water tank jackets, and putting one over the other for extra warmth?

What I am trying to achieve is that when a surveyor comes round to do an EPC and sees how I have insulated the hot water tank that I get a good reading. Does it really matter how I do it, as long as it has been done.

[JK0]

If you do anything unusual, you may fall victim to the tick-box nature of the EPC. The lagging jacket only gave one point improvement in my case. Is it worth bothering with if you are selling?

[mind the gap]

If you do anything unusual, you may fall victim to the tick-box nature of the EPC. The lagging jacket only gave one point improvement in my case. Is it worth bothering with if you are selling?

Well, that one percentage point moved you out of Band F and into Band E! Don't knock it.