Payment frequencies on an AST

[icrecruitment@yahoo.co.uk]

Is a monthly payment of rent the standard on the six month AST and can it possibly be changed if another agreement is drawn up afterwards.

Do many landlords insist on weekly or fortnightly pay, after the standard initial months rent and deposit has been paid.

Are there any laws regarding this?

[lawstudent]

you could have the rent paid daily if either you or your tenant could be arsed. It would certainly put an end to worries about what date to put on a periodic S21. As amazing technicolor Joseph might have said, any day will do. :)

[icrecruitment@yahoo.co.uk]

So AT and AST could have clauses to detail dates of payments, and as you say it could be daily.

How likely is this I mean weekly or fortnightly.
Is there a specific part of the tenancy agreement which states this.

Also, how does this affect rent arrears.
As I understand a tenant has to be two months equivalent behind on rent to put forward an eviction.
Would changing the frequency rent payment alter this?
Is it still 2 months regardless of frequency? What does the notice say about this?

[lawstudent]

2 months' arrears is 2 months' arrears ... it has nothing to do with the rent period. It would be nice if having daily rent meant you could get away with 2 days' arears, but you can't ... so stop dreaming :)

[Energise]

I thought that if it was weekly it would be 8 weeks arrears not 2 months?

[lawstudent]

Energise - you are right :)

[icrecruitment@yahoo.co.uk]

Whats the diff?

[dazalock]

Not all months are exactly 4 weeks, in fact ..........

[Andy Parker]

I have a related question.Housing Benefit seems to be paid every four weeks in arrear.If there is no tenancy agreement is this a monthly tenancy?It is impossible to issue a notice based on the payment cycle as this changes every few months with the tenant's frequent change of circumstances (she is a recovering drug addict and constantly moves from one benefit to another).I gave her a rent book when she moved in and asked for rent to be paid weekly (never paid - just relied on HB payments).This leaves quite a few options for expiry date on the s21 notice :-
1. Weekly based on rentbook and oral agreement (I will have no proof of this if challenged).
2. 4 weekly based on HB payment cycle from start of tenancy (this does not tie up with any actual HB payments)
3. 4 weekly based on current HB payment cycle ending on a payment date (this might change before the expiry date of the notice)
4. Monthly - Oral agreement that intial period of tenancy would be six months.

[dazalock]

correction to my previous post - for "notice" read "arrears".

Why not just edit it? :rolleyes:

[MrWoof]

Andy, HB payment frequency is irrelevant, the tenant is responsible for the rent, if you agree that HB can be paid to you 4 weeks in arrears then this amounts to a private arrangement. HB have no responsibility for rent, if they pay directly to you then this is on behalf of the tenant, this is why you need the tenant's permission for it to be paid in this way

[Paul_f]

In reply mainly to Andy P's post, if HB payments are involved then I was under the impression that benefit was paid two weeks in advance and two in arrears, but I suppose this varies with different benefit offices.

If there is only a parol (oral) lease, in the absence of written terms then specific performance is about the best judge of whether it's a weekly or monthly tenancy. What is the frequency the tenant pays the rent?....or if it is (probably) paid directly to the landlord, then conceivably you would have a rental period of 4 weeks in this instance.

As Mr Woof points out the frequency does not necessarily determine the actual rental period.

Of course if the tenant should ever make a formal demand, the landlord is legally obliged to provide written basic terms of the tenancy to the tenant. Nobody has to sign this (and wouldn't have any significance even if it were) as the tenancy created is automatically an AST since February 1997.

So there you have it!

[Andy Parker]

Mr Woof,Paul - Thanks for your contributions.

Oral agreement was for rent to be paid weekly (hence rent book).It was never paid so I accepted direct HB payment instead after tenant kept the first couple of HB cheques and got into arrears.The HB payments are 4 weeks in arrear rather than 2 weeks in arrear and 2 weeks in advance.I would be happy to formalise the tenancy with a written agreement but the tenant does not want to do this.If the tenancy is accepted as having a 4 week rental period when does each period start?Is it in 4 weekly intervals from the start of the tenancy or does it coincide with actual payments received?I spoke to a solicitor about this who complicated matters further by suggesting that it might be ruled to be a monthly tenancy (I showed her an s21 I had served based on a weekly tenancy.She doubted that it was valid).I am tempted to use a notice with a qualifier such as 'or if this date is invalid the first valid date threafter ...' but I am not sure whether this is acceptable either.Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

[lawstudent]

Why not just edit it? :rolleyes:

Thanks - i just did - what a clever facility ;)

[Paul_f]

I would be happy to formalise the tenancy with a written agreement but the tenant does not want to do this.
No! You won't be able to do this even with the agreement of the tenant, but as I say, the tenant is entitled to written basic terms; no signatures necessary.

As you determined a weekly schedule of payments at the outset with the tenant then I would say you have already established a weekly periodic tenancy for a period of at least 6 months. The issuing of a rent book easily proves this, as a schedule of payments will be shown as weekly.

Another point is in the absence of written terms then I'm afraid the tenant is entitled to pay all rent in arrears as it has to be specifically stated "in advance" to be a valid payment due at the beginning of a rent period. I think you will be better served having a weekly tenancy as your tenant will only be obliged to pay "weekly in arrears" and that is better than monthly in arrears, surely?.

[MrWoof]

Something I hadn't thought of: As HB is paid on behalf of the tenant, assuming this is the bulk of the rent, is it possible for the tenant to be the required two months in arrears? For example, on a £600pcm rent, tenant should pay £30 pcm on top of HB payments but fails to do so. Will a court look at the overall payment or just the tenant's top up. This happened to me but it didn't get as far as court and the tenant has now received an S21, one way round it.

[Andy Parker]

Mr Woof - HB (by direct payment or otherwise) is just a payment vehicle for the rent so I am sure it would be included as part of the tenant's rent when calculating arrears for the purposes of Section 8 ie it will be deducted from the arrears when calculating whether arrears amount to 8 weeks/2 months.