A question from a confused tenant.

[BobKing]

I'm looking for some advice, I shall explain my situation:

I started to rent a room in a 5 bedroom house in September. At the time there was me, and four others. By the end of the month the landlord had started to rent out a 'spare room' to a sixth person. So that leaves persons A, B, C, D, E & F residing in the house paying rent.

Now person A has moved out, and been replaced, but the partner's of persons B & C have moved into their rooms, making the total number of people in a five bedroom house 8.

We have had no contract, and from what i can infer from these forums that would mean we are covered by the Housing act 1988?

Now my problem:

The contracts are for a shared property, not individual rooms, and as such there is a clause saying we are not allowed people to stay over for more than 14 days without the land lords permission. The partners of B & C won't sign an individual contract for fear of being charged extra rent, as they currently 'split' the rent on the room with their partners. If they don't sign and continue to occupy the room, surely those who do sign will be in breach? Also, the house still doesn't have fire alarms properly installed.

Are we best off not signing and going 'as is', trying to get all 8 people to sign, or trying to get written permission off the landlord for the partners to occupy the property without signing?

One last question, as there might be 8 contract holders, does that mean we'd have to have two fridges and two stoves? As we currently have only one of each.

Thank you for your time.

bob

[Snorkerz]

Are all occupants on one tenancy agreement?
Is the house 3 storeys of more?
Is there a HMO license pinned up anywhere?

[BobKing]

Hi thanks for the quick response.

The tennancy agreement we have been given is fairly generic. We each have a seperate one, but they are just copies of each other stating that we'll be a tennant at the address.

There is no HMO notice and the house is only two stories.

I think our landlord is a little naive when it comes to renting out, I know it isn't his main source of income, I doubt he'd know we have to have a HMO notice put up.

If I wish to leave the house, am I obligated to giving him any notice? If so how long?

Regards,

Bob

[jeffrey]

I started to rent a room in a 5 bedroom house in September. At the time there was me, and four others. By the end of the month the landlord had started to rent out a 'spare room' to a sixth person. So that leaves persons A, B, C, D, E & F residing in the house paying rent.

Now person A has moved out, and been replaced, but the partner's of persons B & C have moved into their rooms, making the total number of people in a five bedroom house 8.
Which 'letter' is you, in that array?
And, on the Letting Agreement (if there's only one, on which everyone has to sign), in what numerical position -within the list of joint tenants' names- is your name?

[BobKing]

I would be person E.

We each have a photocopy of a tenancy agreement, where there are no names, nor is the period of tenancy, or even the rent specified. They are left for us to fill in.

We assumed we'd each sign a copy?

Upon closer inspection maybe this thread is in the wrong section? The contract is titled:

Tenancy Agreement - for letting of a furnished dwellinghouse on an assured shorthold tenancy under part 1 of the housing act 1988.

To make things clearer, the house is an old-ish terrace house, two stories. Has no fire alarms (they got 'half installed' early December, mains wired ones, but the work man has never been back)

[jeffrey]

I would be person E.

We each have a photocopy of a tenancy agreement, where there are no names, nor is the period of tenancy, or even the rent specified. They are left for us to fill in.

We assumed we'd each sign a copy?
This is critical to the position. Is the position that:
a. all of you were on one Agreement; or
b. each one of you had his/her own tenancy?

[BobKing]

This is critical to the position. Is the position that:
a. all of you were on one Agreement; or
b. each one of you had his/her own tenancy?
Position b. Once again thank you for your replies.

[jeffrey]

I asked:

This is critical to the position. Is the position that:
a. all of you were on one Agreement; or
b. each one of you had his/her own tenancy?

You replied:

Position b. Once again thank you for your replies.

So let's go back to post #1, in that light:

We have had no contract, and from what i can infer from these forums that would mean we are covered by the Housing act 1988?

Yes, I think that you each had an individual AST. You did have a contract- you told us so.


The contracts are for a shared property, not individual rooms
Eh? How's that, if each has an individual AST?


there is a clause saying we are not allowed people to stay over for more than 14 days without the land lords permission. The partners of B & C won't sign an individual contract for fear of being charged extra rent, as they currently 'split' the rent on the room with their partners. If they don't sign and continue to occupy the room, surely those who do sign will be in breach?

No. Your AST is yours alone. It is unaffected by the doings of other occupants.

[BobKing]

Yes, I think that you each had an individual AST. You did have a contract- you told us so.

Sorry for any confusion my wording may have caused. In chronological order:
I moved in with no contract, then the events described in my first post, with people moving in etc all happened with no one having a contract. Now, the land lord has presented us with what I have now learned is an AST, but if I sign it, I am in breach right away due to the people living here who won't sign a contract. This is my main dilemma.


Eh? How's that, if each has an individual AST?
Well we all live at one address, the rooms aren't individually numbered like they have been in other shared houses I've lived in. The landlord has supplied us with several blank ASTs, the only filled in bits are his signature, and the house address. We assumed we'd have to sign one each?



No. Your AST is yours alone. It is unaffected by the doings of other occupants.
Ok, this makes sense. However does that mean we each should sign an individual AST, all for the same property. Or one AST with all of our names on it? If the latter is the case, is your advice here still valid, and does the order of names on the AST matter?

Sorry if I've not been the best at describing my situation. I appreciate your patience.

[Snorkerz]

A few observations...

What you should have is either an individual contract showing which room you have exclusive use of; or
a joint contract for the full property.

The reason for this is that the landlord can not let the same property in its entirity to multiple people - once he has let it to the first occupier, then he has nothing left to let to anyone else. There is an argument that everyone bar the first occupant is the first occupants lodger - but leave that for another day!

However, presuming

you have a tenancy agreement where the only tenants name is yours,
there is either no fixed term (duration) mentioned on it, or that date has passed
your rent is due (according to the agreement) monthly; then


you have a 'Statutory Periodic Tenancy' under section 5 of the 1988 Housing Act. Written notice required from tenants is a minimum of one month - with the leaving date being the last day of a tenancy period.

With a monthly tenancy, this is easy, it is the same day of the month as your fixed term ended, for ASTs that ended on the 29th - 31st of the month, then the last day of the month applies if your final month doesn't have the right day in it. If you didn't have a fixed term, then each period would run for one month from when you moved in - eg 24th to 23rd.

If you leave before the notice date shown above, you will be liable for rent until that date is reached - unless a new tenant moves in, in which case your liability ends the day before they move in.

[HMO Landlord]

Hi BobKing. I see you mention two stoves two fridges.

If there are 5 people in the house whether related, not related, living in a partnership, here in Linconshire the rules are that there must be two ovens or an oven and a microwave which is of similar capacity to a stove. Two hobs i believe too. There must also be a sink in every room and a separate bathroom to the toilet. (I think a bathroom including a toilet and a second separate toilet is fine). With the fridge, i think it's something odd like a small shelf each of a certain size, but i know it's quite a small amount of space that is required. I may be vague but if it starts you off in the right direction then we are on a winner.

This is all part of the Housing Health and Safety Rating System coming from the housing act 2004 (i'll always stand corrected by other persons in the know).

The Housing Health and Safety Rating System should be available on the net or from your local council and covers all matter of things from mould growth to food safety to overcrowding and the list goes on....

Non functional smoke alarms are a massive no no. If you want to get out of the accommodation i would suggest approaching the landlord and being honest, saying you don't feel safe without the smoke and fire detectors in place. He is breaking the law and may just let you leave easily if he thinks you will report him/her. Don't forget the fire doors that you should have, usually with three hinges on each too.