Redeveloping A House into 2 'dwellings'

[maisondevelopments]

Hi,
i was thinking of adding a small 2/3 bedroom house (already been rented out) an extra kitchen and a bathroom, making the upstairs in effect ;self contained' and the bottom half 'self contained'. Other than that i thought i would leave the house as one complete unit, one heating and hot water system and all adjoining doors intact so the tenats could be using whatever part of the house they wanted (but probably would not!)
Would this require planning permission to add this kitchen and bathroom as its still just one house?
Also could it come under an HMO if i had 3 unrelated people in it and NOT an HMO with 2 people in it.
Any advice is very welcome as i cant seem to find the information on this possible great area?
Many thanks

[Solent Watcher]

Go talk to your local Building Control and planners. I suspect you may find the cost of alterations/approvals on this,as you describe it "small" property will not pay for itself in either the short or long term!! On the finance side whatever budget you think it will cost then double it and see if the sums still work out at the upper figure. You shoudl do this as this is the worse case scenario. My advice is stick with what you have got!!! Its is occupied and generating cash!!

[maisondevelopments]

Thanks solent but i was hoping to avoid dealing with Building Control and Planning provided if the development didnt fall into a category they would definately be interested in.
In adding a kitchen and bathroom i can get a considerable amount more rent (like 50%), i have seen it done successfully and tenants dont seem to mind it technically still being one house. I do alot of building work myself so costs will be low whatever the eventuality.
Can anyone advise on the legalities of this scenario?
Many thanks

[Solent Watcher]

Hi, I think my point is that "hoping" it does not fall in a catagory is not the way go. If you push ahead without talking to them and it goes wrong you could then be enforced. It is not worth the risk for the sake of a visit to them /couple of phone calls to chat it through. is that 50% gross or net!!!!

good luck

[maisondevelopments]

Ah i see yes Solent i think a chat to them from a phone box would be a good idea! Although i suspect they will work out pretty quickly that i am trying to side step them a touch!
Its 50% gross. We shall see! thanks again

[Brixtonia]

If there are no external changes you are most likely able to do this without planning permission (unless property is listed). Planning cannot prevent you from having more than one kitchen or bathroom. Bear in mind though that you are probably devaluing your property because most resi lenders will not lend against homes which have been partially subdivided and it will mostly appeal to investors/developers.

However, I am pretty certain that you would need building regs approval for such works - and if you are renting out you could get yourself into all sorts of problems if someone was hurt as a result of works not meeting regs.

[mind the gap]

What you are proposing sounds like a bad idea nd I agree that it would be preferable to keep it as one dwelling. However, if you are determined to create two dwellings where one existed before, I would have thought you would need planning permission since it is likely to be tenanted by two unrelated households, which is an HMO. There may also be issues with noise and parking and you may need to satisfy the council that having two households living in the property will not cause overcrowding in the space available.

You will certainly need building regs approval.

Grow up and have an honest conversation with the council about what you hope to do. There is no point trying to do this anonymously. They will want to know the address of the property before they can advise you as it can be possible to get permission in some areas but not others. Just be open with them and don't hide anything.

[Conflicted]

hi,

I thought HMO was only if there are more than two tenants in the two units, so in this case it MIGHt be an HMO depending on how many people are on the tenancy agreements?:

The following buildings will be exempted from the HMO definition:
Buildings owned or managed by public bodies (local authorities, registered social landlords, the police, fire service or health service);
Student accommodation provided by educational establishments if they have signed up to the Code of Practice for university-owned accommodation (student accommodation provided by private landlords is specifically included as potential HMOs);
Buildings occupied by a religious community (unless it is a converted building which did not meet with building regulations approval in which case it will be an HMO);
Properties shared by only two unrelated tenants
Properties with a resident landlord and up to 2 lodgers in their accommodation
Childrens' homes, care homes, residential family centres, boarding schools or colleges which accommodate children, approved bail hostels, approved probation hostels, removal centres, prisons, remand centres, young offender institutions, secure training centres and accommodations centres for destitute asylum-seekers. These are already regulated by other organisations under separate legislation.

http://www.landlords.org.uk/archive/factsheets/factsheet-definitionofhmo.asp

[Richard Webster]

Isn't the point a straight planning one? It is not the building works (or relative lack of them) that are the issue but whether a single dwelling is being used as two separate dwellings. It would certainly seem as if it was.

Is OP going to create some artificial licence agreement so that the "tenants" do not have exclusive use of any of the rooms and are supposed to be "sharing" the whole house as one household? I can't see any normal people accepting anything other than a tenancy of a defined part of the building - once they have that and there is another such tenancy of another defined part then there is a evidence of a material change of use to two dwellings. Not being an HMO doesn't mean you don't need planning permission.

[mk1fan]

Plumbing work will require Building Regs approval. Kitchen upstairs will also create fire compartmentation issues that will need to be addressed - again under the Building Regs. Electrical changes will aslo need to comply with Building Regs.

Not eitirely sure what the OP wants to do as the post makes little sense. I don't see how losing a bedroom is going to make the rental value increase by 50%.