Condensation: window heaters

[MrTenant]

Hello,

Although I try to use a deshumidifier as much as possible I'm having a lot of condensation on bedrooms' windows when it's cold at night (good old single glazing sash windows with draught, etc).

To combat the issue I'm thinking of using window heaters (similar in shape to a neon tube light, to be placed at the bottom of the window). Unfortunately, so far I have only found some on sale on a Japanese website...

Has anyone experience using these devices? Can they be bought from the UK?

Thanks.

[jeffrey]

Even if they could, what about possible:
a. voltage difference; and
b. non-compliance with UK safety standards?

[MrTenant]

Even if they could, what about possible:
a. voltage difference; and
b. non-compliance with UK safety standards?

Exactly why I'm asking whether, to anyone's knowledge, such devices are available in the UK.

[mind the gap]

Exactly why I'm asking whether, to anyone's knowledge, such devices are available in the UK.

No idea about availablity here but I shouldn't think they would be much more effective than a quick once-over with a cloth. You would also need a socket near each window, or trailing wires.

[Solent Watcher]

Hi, I used to run a specialist damp company and although some time ago I think the solutions are the same!!

People think that heaters get rid of moisture in fact the do exactly the opposite. As As with any natural rain system the warmer the air the MORE moisture it holds and continues to do so until either total saturation is reached (clouds get bigger!!) when it starts to rain as the temperature falls. Window heaters will not solve the problem becuase the moisture is still in the room (view it as a cloud). Currently the water droplets form on the windows because it is the coldest surface in the room and then turns to rain (condensation!!). It seems that you use dehumidifier a lot which costs a lot!! In my view you are much better off letting natural air circulate in the room by day (if it is bedroom you are not in it anyway) an then at night central heating can give you a basic comfort level then switch it off!!! If possible leave bedroom door open or if not leave window open a small amount and then you will not get condensation on the windows (well not much anyway) and get good quality heavy drapes as curtains. They will keep the moisture away from the windows but still allow fresh air to circulate which you need to prevent mould establishing itself which it probably already has around the cold spots of the room including the corners of the room above skirting boards on the same wall as where the window is!! Bit long..sorry!! In summary do not add heaters use natural air as much as possible to "flow" through the room by night and screen the window at night with heavy drape to stop the draughts affecting you!!! PS Add duvet!!! Enjoy

[MrTenant]

Currently the water droplets form on the windows because it is the coldest surface in the room and then turns to rain (condensation!!).

Yes. That's why I was thinking of warming the window's glass so as to prevent condensation.


Bit long..sorry!!

Not at all! That's very informative and useful info, I'm going to put into practice immediately. Thanks.

[leaseholdanswers]

Yes. That's why I was thinking of warming the window's glass so as to prevent condensation.



Not at all! That's very informative and useful info, I'm going to put into practice immediately. Thanks.

even with triple glazing no air flow will lead to condensation on the windows or worse still moving around the room to cold surfaces behind wardrobes drawers etc.

[mind the gap]

even with triple glazing no air flow will lead to condensation on the windows or worse still moving around the room to cold surfaces behind wardrobes drawers etc.

Worse still, WHAT moving round the room? Please try to make sense. I know it's hard for you :rolleyes:

[jeffrey]

The windows moving round the room?

[leaseholdanswers]

The windows moving round the room?

Sigh; airflow is the subject of the sentence......... Still, you can't follow an argument that is not expressed in your terms so I hardly expect you to follow something mildy technical in nature. If you need me to "cut up your meat" then I can keep it very very simple.

"ROMANES EUNT DOMUS" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8

[jeffrey]

Sigh; airflow is the subject of the sentence.
Yes. Let's try re-punctuating/revising your earlier post to say just that, shall we?


even with triple glazing no air flow will lead to condensation on the windows or worse still moving around the room to cold surfaces behind wardrobes drawers etc.
BECOMES
Even with triple glazing, the absence of air flow will lead to condensation on the windows or- worse still- condensation moving around the room onto cold surfaces behind wardrobes drawers etc.
And that's not too good; condensation cannot move around, either.
So we'd better say:
Even with triple glazing, the absence of adequate air flow will lead to condensation on the windows or- worse still- damp air flowing around the room to condense onto cold surfaces behind wardrobes drawers etc.

[mind the gap]

Sigh; airflow is the subject of the sentence......... Still, you can't follow an argument that is not expressed in your terms so I hardly expect you to follow something mildy technical in nature. If you need me to "cut up your meat" then I can keep it very very simple.


Rubbish. It is nothing whatsoever to do with your 'argument' not being expressed 'in someone else's terms,' nor the fact that it is 'mildly technical' in nature. As you will see from Jeffrey's re-structuring of your incoherent and unpunctated post, he did (in the end) manage to make sense of it; he clearly has more patience with your nonsense than I do.

The point - which you constantly seem to miss - is that expressing yourself incoherently and failing to use any punctuation makes it necessary for the readers of your post to work a lot harder to extract your meaning than they should have to. Punctuation isn't just something which English teachers inflict on you at school to make life nasty; it's a formatting tool, if you like, to help you make your written-down thoughts/ideas comprehensible to others.

It's a matter of courtesy in the end and I think you are often plain rude in expecting the rest of us to puzzle over what you say simply because you cannot be bothered to say it clearly. Not all your posts are this bad and some are actually perfectly intelligible, which makes it even more irritating when you dispense garbage. I have more patience for people who genuinely struggle to express themselves accurately, but you are simply choosing not to.

[jeffrey]

Leaseholdanswers: don't make her angry- you wouldn't like her when she's angry...

[mind the gap]

Leaseholdanswers: don't make her angry- you wouldn't like her when she's angry...

Don't worry - I am not angry, nor am I made angry by things I see on internet forums! If I didn't think you would interpret it inappropriately, I would call it frustration, but that too may be too strong a term. In the end leaseholdanswers will have to accept that if he cannot be bothered to take the time to make his posts make sense, most people will give up trying to unscramble them and just ignore them (as I often do). He may as well be shouting up a drainpipe, for all the good his posting does and that might be a pity as we are then deprived of any useful knowledge/advice he might have to offer.

[Bel]

I have seen window heaters used in some shops where condensation is a problem, such as a florist.

They are very long so probably would not come in the size you require.

I think its best to use a dehumidifier to remove the moisture in the air. I suspect its safer and cheaper.

[mind the gap]

I think its best to use a dehumidifier to remove the moisture in the air. I suspect its safer and cheaper.
The trouble with dehumidifiers running at night in occupied rooms is that they are noisy and you can wake up with very dry/sore eyes. Did you mean having them on at night, or just during the day, Bel?

[jeffrey]

Modern units are very much quieter even at full blast and also have a lower-power 'whisper' setting for overnight use.

[mind the gap]

Modern units are very much quieter even at full blast and also have a lower-power 'whisper' setting for overnight use.

I still wouldn't like anyone/anything whispering at me all night long.

[jeffrey]

So stop going with that there Sting...

[MrTenant]

Thanks for these suggestions.

We already use a dehumidifier.
The issue is that we take showers in the evening so basically increase moisture a lot just before going to sleep... Obviously not ideal.

Anyway the dehumidifier does help, increased aeration also does help, but still quite some condensation during colder nights. And we don't like the dehumidifier's noise/airflow in the room at night.

I've found a low power tubular heater online (anti-freeze, cup board heater, etc) which fits the width of the window: condensation gone except where draught is too strong.

[mind the gap]

Thanks for these suggestions.

We already use a dehumidifier.
The issue is that we take showers in the evening so basically increase moisture a lot just before going to sleep... Obviously not ideal.

Anyway the dehumidifier does help, increased aeration also does help, but still quite some condensation during colder nights. And we don't like the dehumidifier's noise/airflow in the room at night.

I've found a low power tubular heater online (anti-freeze, cup board heater, etc) which fits the width of the window: condensation gone except where draught is too strong.

Simple. Don't breathe, and don't wash. :D

[jeffrey]

But perhaps he isn't a student after all?

[MrTenant]

Simple. Don't breathe, and don't wash. :D

Yeah tried that as well. It has some drawbacks, though: If I don't breath I tend to turn blue after a minute and if I don't wash my wife turns blue (probably for not breathing) after a week ;-)


But perhaps he isn't a student after all?

Er, I'm not. Hence I find that not washing hinders my social and professional life...

[westminster]

In summary do not add heaters use natural air as much as possible to "flow" through the room by night and screen the window at night with heavy drape to stop the draughts affecting you!!! PS Add duvet!!! Enjoy
Yes, I agree. I have the same problem in my sitting room and bedroom, with old single-glazed windows, and I just open windows regularly to keep the place ventilated. It doesn't prevent condensation 100% of the time, but I just accept the fact that I have to wipe down those windows occasionally.

[Bel]

Some people recommend smearing shaving foam or washing up liquid on the window, and polishing it off to leave a residue.

[rajeshk4u]

There are a lot of conflicting messages out there!

The Greens will tell you to keep windows shut, fit double glazing, keep draughts out, keep the heat in but when someone has problems with condensation you are told to do the opposite, keep windows open and circulate air, which as a consequences takes heat out, so not environmently friendly.

Both sets of people can't be right?

I am looking at mechnical extractor / heat extractor from Vent-Axia e.g. HVR30 HVR100. They take moist air out and bring in fresh warmed air using a heat exchanger. I would like to hear from people if this works?

At the moment experimenting with Humidstat extractors in the bathroom.....

[jeffrey]

The Greens will tell you to keep windows shut, fit double glazing, keep draughts out, keep the heat in but when someone has problems with condensation you are told to do the opposite, keep windows open and circulate air, which as a consequences takes heat out, so not environmently friendly.

Both sets of people can't be right?
But, oddly, they are!

[leaseholdanswers]

There are a lot of conflicting messages out there!

The Greens will tell you to keep windows shut, fit double glazing, keep draughts out, keep the heat in but when someone has problems with condensation you are told to do the opposite, keep windows open and circulate air, which as a consequences takes heat out, so not environmently friendly.

Both sets of people can't be right?

I am looking at mechnical extractor / heat extractor from Vent-Axia e.g. HVR30 HVR100. They take moist air out and bring in fresh warmed air using a heat exchanger. I would like to hear from people if this works?

At the moment experimenting with Humidstat extractors in the bathroom.....

Actually they are not, only truly stupid people say shut the property up tight, or leave the windows open. Normal residential rooms need to achieve around an air change of 1.5 times per hour, and a small vent is sufficient for that. That may need to be higher if there is a problem with condensation which means tackle the other causes cold walls poor circulation inadequate space heating etc first.

Kitchens and bathrroms need much higher extracts to ensure warm moist air leaves and does not go into other rooms. Ask the fan manufacturer to specify one appropriate for the kitchen and bathroom

[Solent Watcher]

We have just finished a job in a house which was running in condensation due to zero ventilation.

Given the layout of the house , bathroom off of kitchen/diner,we fitted two humidity control fans BUT they were triple function. ON all the time and then when switched off timer kicked in for further ten minutes Then if humidity was not below 50% (which can be manually set) then fan kept running until it was!! Kitchen was extracted through ceiling (but high up the wall is good alternative) into void space above then vented out, Bathroom replaced existing through wall with new fans. Trickle vents added to kitchen window and backdoor downstairs. Upstairs where vents could not be added (bodged DG fit) utilised loft hatch on main landing (central enclosed stairway) with an 8 x 8 square hole with 9 x 9 open cover vent.

Problem solved downstairs and condensation upstairs reduced by 90%. Have no experience of the heat exchanger type fans. Is not the "warm air in" just as a heat source??

[jeffrey]

A useful and interesting post: thank you!