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View Full Version : Broken window: who's responsible for repair, L or T?



Samsuka
15-05-2005, 21:33 PM
Hi guys,

My tenant (who lives in the flat below us) has a 14 year old daughter who for some reason is being bullied quite severely who come to outside our house and hurl abuse at her. For some reason they really don't like it and the mother (who is a nervous wreck anyway) has called the police several times. Recently however they threw a brick at the window, but luckily it bounced off. However on Saturday night they did it again at 3.30 in the morning and smashed the outer pane of a big glass window, although luckily the inner pane of the double glazing is ok.

Who is responsible for repairing the damage? Me or the tenant? I imagine it is me but the point is that it would not have been broken if they were not living there?

We are evicting her anyway at the end of June (S21 notice has been served), because we have my sister-in-law moving in with mates and she has not being paying her rent fully or on time because she lost both jobs within months of moving in!!

Also should i wait until she moves in or get it done straight away? I am tempted to wait because i want to replace the windows anyway? They are cheap stainless steel ones, although we may paint them to make them better.

Thanks for any help

Sam

Andy Parker
15-05-2005, 21:47 PM
You will have to foot the bill as the damage was not caused by the tenants or any of their guests.I would be tempted just to make running repairs until the tenants move out although if the tenants complain enough you might be liable for a full repair.

bob
08-03-2006, 16:47 PM
Hi all,
If a tenant has a window broken but was not there fault,for example a football gets kicked through the window,whos responsibility is it to fix,the landlord or tenant?.
Thanks.

susan 2
08-03-2006, 19:11 PM
Bob - my first thought would be -who kicked the football? Was it any relative or friend of the tenant. As a landlord if this happened to me I would definately want to know more.

P.S. Sorry to be niggly but it's "their fault" not "there fault"

bob
08-03-2006, 19:14 PM
Thanks susan,
It was just an example case with the football,didnt know if there was some law that it was the tenants responsibility to fix or if it could be passed over to the landlord.

susan 2
08-03-2006, 19:35 PM
Bob - yes generally a landlord is responsible for the upkeep of the building. And if no outside person can be chased for damage then the landlord would have to claim on his buildings insurance. Unless it's a small matter which is not worth claiming for. In that case I think I would try to come to some friendly 50/50 arrangement with the tenant. I am lucky I have nice tenants!

justaboutsane
08-03-2006, 19:55 PM
beware.. if the EHO get in on it it does not matter WHO broke the window .. they will expect the LL to deal with it. We had tenants who have damaged 6 month old uPVC windows... the EHO does not care ... the tenant has had the cheek to complain to them about it and we now have to foot the bill.... so section 21 here you come .....

Worldlife
09-03-2006, 13:00 PM
We had the situation of a reported break in to the property. We arranged for emergency boarding up and removal of broken glass (Health and Safety issues?). The emergency works plus replacement glazing through a 24 hour service proved quite expensive - about £180.

The Landlord is responsible for repairs as a result of burglary but we were covered by insurance but the insurers wanted a crime number.

The police had refused to give a crime number as they regarded the break in as a domestic incident as it was carried out by the tenant's ex-girl friend who had been previously living at the property under licence.

At the start of the tenancy we had documented our recommendation that the tenant arranges adequate personal contents insurance and check that the policy included third party liability for the tenant's responsibilities.

We suggested that the tenant made a claim on their policy but he had not taken out a policy. The guarantor therefore paid the cost of the emergency repairs and glazing replacement.

So if the EHO forces your hand it may be possible to reclaim the cost of works from the tenant or insurers dependant on the circumstances of the damage.

mike8888
31-07-2006, 14:28 PM
I am a tennant in a privately rented property. Recently A widow was cracked externally whislt the property was empty. (possible attempted burglary i'm not sure)

our contract states that any broken or cracked windows are the tennant's responsibility to replace.

Is this legally binding given the circumstances and the nature of what has happened?

Any help/advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
The landlord is unwilling to use household insurance due to the excess payments.

Many thanks

pippay
31-07-2006, 15:58 PM
Unless you can prove it was done externally and it was not as a result of your carelessness, neglgence or deliberate action I think you'd be hard pressed to make the LL responsible.

Why not suggest either going 50/50 or paying his excess?

Poppy
31-07-2006, 16:52 PM
If you think it was an attempted burglary, did you call the Police?

If you have not reported your suspicions to the Police, then I can understand why your landlord expects you to pay. Can you understand that point of view?

Alternatively, if you currently have good relations with your landlord maybe you can demonstrate your negotiation skills and offer to go halves on the cost.

You should also be aware that as a tenant you are responsible for minor repairs. (Someone please quote the legislation for me.)

Either way, it is best if you and the landlord can come to an amicable arrangement and get the problem sorted ASAP.

Jennifer_M
31-07-2006, 19:42 PM
Actually I believe that the landlord is responsible for it providing the tenant didn't damage the window himself.

If the tenant can prove he was away at the time this happened he can't be held responsible for the cost and the landlord will have to pay for it.

MrShed
31-07-2006, 19:47 PM
I agree with Jennifer on this. As the landlord cannot prove negligence on the part of the tenant with regards to this damage(unless the window was left partially open or similar), the tenant shouldn't be held responsible. I am not sure that the fact the property was vacant is all that important in this case however, I would say the same if they were in the property at the time and some kids kicked a football into the window.

In the interests of an easy life, however, I would suggest not arguing the toss too much over it and suggesting a 50/50 split....it is definitely easy to see why the landlord may feel aggrieved at paying out for this. How large is the window? And is it standard single glazing? Unless it is a massive window, it shouldn't cost much upwards of £80 if you shop around(depending of course whereabouts you live!). A similar situation happened to me, about one year ago, and the sash window pane took 30 minutes and cost £50 to replace in Newcastle.

mike8888
01-08-2006, 08:57 AM
thanks for the responses to this. i was really checking to see if I was being unreasonable or not. I can prove the residance was empty and it is clearly external damage. However a break in in just a sumise.

50/50 would probably be the best policy, however i feel reluctant to do this at this stage. is there a case for taking this sort of damage out of the bond? Looking at a quote of £200 ish.

thanks

lizzie
01-04-2008, 19:18 PM
During a recent tenancy the patio doors were smashed. Tenants claimed it was someone trying to break in so I had it repaired under my insurance. 2 weeks before they were due to move out I was informed that the glass in the shower door was broken. Tenants claim it was due to a fault in the glass and no fault of theirs. The lease states that "the tenant agrees to replace all broken glass in doors and windows damaged during the tenancy".
I would have thought that this makes the tenant liable to pay for the damage. My letting agent disagrees as they think that there is no way of proving that this is malicious damage. Why does it have to be malicious damage?
Agent also says that they have the final say as my contract with them stipulates that I authorise the agent to make the final decision re disputes with the deposit.

What do others think?

jeffrey
01-04-2008, 21:23 PM
1. 'Malice' not stated in lease. The glass is broken. T has to replace it.
2. Does your Agency Agreement allow A to override you?
A. If so, why did you sign it?
B. If not, A is wrong.

jeffrey
02-04-2008, 15:16 PM
1. 'Malice' not stated in lease. The glass is broken. T has to replace it.
2. Does your Agency Agreement allow A to override you?
A. If so, why did you sign it?
B. If not, A is wrong.
T's own contents insurance may cover glass broken by the supposed intruder.

lizzie
02-04-2008, 15:42 PM
My insurance has paid for the glass in the patio doors. Problem is I have difficulty believing the shower door broke of its own accord-more likely it was broken by one of the tenants, probably by accident, possibly when drunk. I don't see why I should have to claim again on my insurance as suggested by my letting agent. The tenancy agreement they signed does not mention that the damage to the glass has to be malicious. And it does state that the tenants are responsible for damage to glass.

Unfortunately the contract I signed does appear to give the letting agent final say regarding any disputes over damages and the return of the deposit. I was a bit hesitant about this when I signed and now appear to have been proved right. I thought the letting agent was supposed to work on my behalf.
We live and learn. I'm looking for a new agent.

Mars Mug
03-04-2008, 09:42 AM
Some shower doors can break, especially concertina type, if the mechanism rubs or jams or a hinge starts to fail. The frame of the door can distort to such an extent that the glass will break.

Another example of glass breaking through no fault of the user would be my Mothers oven door. The design was not too smart and the handle connected to the door through two small holes in the glass. As the door expanded with heat there was too much point pressure in the glass and on two occasions the glass shattered as the door opened.

So in the case of the shower door I would suggest inspecting the movement to see if it is free and easy, if there is any resistance in movement this could be a cause for the breakage.

obiwan
04-09-2010, 23:00 PM
If a tenant comes home and discovers a window in their rented property has been broken while they were out, who would be responsible for

1. repairing the damage
2. paying the cost of the repair,

the Landlord or the Tenant?

Thanks. :)

gardeningmad
04-09-2010, 23:12 PM
Is it an AST, in England and under 2083 pounds per month rent?

If so then you are responsible for repairs. Even if the tenant had broken the window [in which case they would foot your bill] it is still your responsibility to maintain the property and ensure it is habitable. If you don't do the repair then the T can arrange it himself and deduct it from the rent and/or bring a case against you.

Do you not have insurance to cover it? Have you reported it to the police so you can get a case number to facilitate insurance claim? Also to validate the breakage was from outside and not by tenant?

obiwan
04-09-2010, 23:46 PM
Yes, it's a standard AST in England.

I'm asking from the T's point of view really. Should the T just report the damage to the LL and let them deal with it, rather than arranging to repair it themselves?

thesaint
05-09-2010, 05:39 AM
If you don't do the repair then the T can arrange it himself and deduct it from the rent and/or bring a case against you.



Anyone can bring a case, but what makes you think that even if the tenant didn't do it, that the landlord would be responsible for recompensing the tenant in this situation?

Snorkerz
05-09-2010, 06:47 AM
Anyone can bring a case, but what makes you think that even if the tenant didn't do it, that the landlord would be responsible for recompensing the tenant in this situation?The windows are the landlords responsibility under s11 of the 1985 L&T. Therefore, if the landlord doesn't do the repair, OP can do so and expect to be paid.

As an aside - how weird is this - I had exactly the same issue last night - you're not my tenants are you???? Obviously not - I've already arranged a glazier :). (okay everybody - pat me on the head !!!)

thesaint
05-09-2010, 07:40 AM
The windows are the landlords responsibility under s11 of the 1985 L&T. Therefore, if the landlord doesn't do the repair, OP can do so and expect to be paid.


Would be helpful if you could quote the part that the tenant would be entitled to be recompensed, which was my question.

Just because it's the landlords responsibility to repair something, does not mean that he has to pay out of his pocket.
The tenant maybe be responsible for charges under the act.

Snorkerz
05-09-2010, 09:20 AM
Would be helpful if you could quote the part that the tenant would be entitled to be recompensed, which was my question.

Just because it's the landlords responsibility to repair something, does not mean that he has to pay out of his pocket.
The tenant maybe be responsible for charges under the act.No legislation - common law. Would you stand in court and argue that even though you were responsible, you didn't have to pay? What would your reasoning be?

Snorkerz
05-09-2010, 09:22 AM
Yes, it's a standard AST in England.

I'm asking from the T's point of view really. Should the T just report the damage to the LL and let them deal with it, rather than arranging to repair it themselves?In answer to your main question - yes, report to the landlord ASAP. If the landlord is a bit slow taking action, see this website: http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repairs_and_bad_conditions/repairs_in_private_lets/tenants_doing_repairs

theartfullodger
05-09-2010, 12:21 PM
As an aside - how weird is this - I had exactly the same issue last night - you're not my tenants are you???? Obviously not - I've already arranged a glazier :). (okay everybody - pat me on the head !!!)

Well done Snorkerz, take a gold star!

p_cas
05-09-2010, 18:40 PM
No legislation - common law. Would you stand in court and argue that even though you were responsible, you didn't have to pay? What would your reasoning be?

I think he was taking about recompense to the tenant even if the landlord had paid for the repair, which a previous post seemed to suggest might be the case.

I assume all this depends on how the window got broken as to who pays for it? I know it's not the OPs question but if the tenant clearly broke the window then the landlord may have to organise the repair but the tenant would surely pay, if not directly then out of his deposit?

On reading some of the previous posts it seems to imply that the landlord is responsible and is therefore liable to pay for any breakages of windows by the tenant. I assume this isn't correct, otherwise the tenant could break every window in the property with no come-back.

johnboy
05-09-2010, 19:18 PM
We have in our contracts that it is the tenants reponsibility to repair broken windows. 90% of the time it turns out to be the tenants or tenant guests that break the windows anyway. This seems to solve the issue and the tenants get them fixed in most cases. Right or wrong it works.

mind the gap
05-09-2010, 19:25 PM
We have in our contracts that it is the tenants reponsibility to repair broken windows. 90% of the time it turns out to be the tenants or tenant guests that break the windows anyway. This seems to solve the issue and the tenants get them fixed in most cases. Right or wrong it works.

It must be wrong since - as pointed out above - organising repairs to the windows are statutorily the LL's responsibility. Do you also make your Ts responsible for getting the gas safety checks done?

Sounds as though as an agent, you're doing yourself out of job, there.:rolleyes:

jeffrey
06-09-2010, 16:08 PM
We have in our contracts that it is the tenants reponsibility to repair broken windows. 90% of the time it turns out to be the tenants or tenant guests that break the windows anyway. This seems to solve the issue and the tenants get them fixed in most cases. Right or wrong it works.
No, if it's wrong under s.11, L is laid open to proceedings. Why invite problems?

thesaint
06-09-2010, 17:15 PM
We have in our contracts that it is the tenants reponsibility to repair broken windows. 90% of the time it turns out to be the tenants or tenant guests that break the windows anyway. This seems to solve the issue and the tenants get them fixed in most cases. Right or wrong it works.

What does the contract actually say?
I don't think that you should say that it's their responsibility to repair them(although, as you know, you can say what you like, and it usually works), but there is nothing to stop them being responsible for the costs.

johnboy
06-09-2010, 18:06 PM
As i said most of the time it turns out it is the tenants who have broken the window.

It goes like this, Monday morning the tenant will phone up and state someone broke 2 of my windows on saturday night . I will then ask if they know who did it which the reply will be "Oh no i was having a quiet evening in with a cup of coco and a brick came through the window"
Then later in the day a neigbour or two will phone up and complain about the all night party and the fight the tenant had with their partner.

I will point the tenant to the clause in the tenancy agreement and 9 times out of ten they accept it and get the window fixed if they make a issue of if we dont try to enforce it due to s11.
I see no differance to any other damage to the property that the tenant would be responsible for.

If a tenant moved out of a property and you did a check out and 2 windows were broken you would make a deduction from the deposit regardless who broke them.

If it saves the landlord money I,m doing what I'm paid for and i wouldnt allow the situation to go as far as proceedings.

MTG you would soon be complaining if you were charged for broken windows and then charged again when it happen again a month later and the agent just willy nilly passed the bill to you without question.;)

mind the gap
06-09-2010, 18:48 PM
MTG you would soon be complaining if you were charged for broken windows and then charged again when it happen again a month later and the agent just willy nilly passed the bill to you without question.;)

Fortunately I am confident that I will never be in that situation since I would have to be at the insane end of desperate before I let an agent manage my properties.

In any case, you did not read what I said.

First, for the reasons which have been explained above, it is inadvisable to include clauses in your TAs which override the Ts statutory rights or make them responsible for the LL's statutory obligations, whether or not you feel you have 'got away with it' so far.

Second, I did not say the LL should assume responsibility for paying for broken windows to be replaced, simply ensuring that the work is done, and done promptly. Otherwise, if it is left up to the Ts, there's a risk the property is left unsecured, which is in nobody's interests. If they fail to pay up at the time, and have not informed the police in case of a crime, then you can deduct it from their deposit when they move out, can't you?

johnboy
06-09-2010, 23:02 PM
. If they fail to pay up at the time, and have not informed the police in case of a crime, then you can deduct it from their deposit when they move out, can't you?

Of course you can. But if you lived in the real world you would know that it could cost £300 for 2 good size double sealed glazed units to be replaced.
So if you only had a deposit of £600 which is a fair average it doesnt take a rocket scientist or even a school teacher (maybe not a school teacher if you believe whats writen in the newpapers nowadays) to work out that doesnt leave much for other dilapidations at the end of a tenancy. So if it is possible to get the window fixed to a acceptable standard by the person responsible in a acceptable timeframe agreed by both parties it makes sense doesnt it?


May I remind you that most contracts state you can do an inspection with 24hours notice but will all know its not enforcible.

And before you bleat on about that doesnt leave a property unsecured if you read my post correctly I never said I would allow that. Also as more and and more properties have uvpc double glazed windows you will find a lot of the time it is only the outer glass that is broken and the property still secure and i doubt s11 applies.

We all know going down the abandened property route also isnt strictly correct also but is a fairly accepted practise that goes on with a certain amount of risk.

Part of my job is to protect my landlords interests and save him money if possible and I make no excuses for that.

mind the gap
06-09-2010, 23:10 PM
Of course you can. But if you lived in the real world you would know that it could cost £300 for 2 good size double sealed glazed units to be replaced. It is actually extremely difficult to break sealed double glazing units and it is even less likely that a T would break two at the same time. Plus, although I have had tenants who have broken windows, I have never had a problem getting the money from them, usually straight away. Perhaps I find myself more honest tenants than you?


So if you only had a deposit of £600 which is a fair average it doesnt take a rocket scientist or even a school teacher (maybe not a school teacher if you believe whats writen in the newpapers nowadays) to work out that doesnt leave much for other dilapidations at the end of a tenancy. So if it is possible to get the window fixed to a acceptable standard by the person responsible in a acceptable timeframe agreed by both parties [B]it makes sense doesnt it? I don't know, since I cannot make much sense of this rambling error-strewn, chunk of text. You need a teacher!



May I remind you that most contracts state you can do an inspection with 24hours notice but will all know its not enforcible.Yes it is, ultimately (by obtaining a court order); the same is not true of clauses which put two fingers up to the concept of a LL's statutory obligations (the clue is in the word 'statutory'!)



We all know going down the abandened property route also isnt strictly correct also but is a fairly accepted practise that goes on with a certain amount of risk.In the murky pond inhabited by a certain kind of letting agent, perhaps.


Part of my job is to protect my landlords interests and save him money if possible and I make no excuses for that.:rolleyes:Oh, please! You make it sound like some noble calling. Don't kid yourself. You job is to make money for yourself and to minimise the time and effort you have to expend in doing so. You don't seem to mind cutting a few legal corners, that's all.

johnboy
06-09-2010, 23:33 PM
:rolleyes:Oh, please! You make it sound like some noble calling. Don't kid yourself. You job is to make money for yourself and to minimise the time and effort you have to expend.

Of course I am in buisness just same as you are in your proffession to earn a living but dont tar us all with the same brush just because you have had a bad expirence.

Using your view point my school which was pretty crappy had a couple of teachers who were a bit too friendly with the some of the young kids does that make you same? Of course not? You are supposed to be a educated person pity you let yourself down with some of you comments it doesnt reflex well on you at all. Must try harder.

jeffrey
07-09-2010, 10:24 AM
Of course I am in buisness just same as you are in your proffession to earn a living but dont tar us all with the same brush just because you have had a bad expirence.

Using your view point my school which was pretty crappy had a couple of teachers who were a bit too friendly with the some of the young kids does that make you same? Of course not? You are supposed to be a educated person pity you let yourself down with some of you comments it doesnt reflex well on you at all. Must try harder.

Or maybe that should read (with my corrections in capitals):

Of course I am in buSIness just THE same as you are in your proFession to earn a living but doN'T tar us all with the same brush just because you have had a bad expERIence.

Using your vieWPoint my school which was pretty crappy had a couple of teachers who were a bit too friendly WITH SOME of the young kids. Does that make you THE same? Of course not? You are supposed to be a educated person. IT'S A pity THAT you let yourself down with some of youR commentS. It doesN'T refleCT well on you at all. Must try harder.

Must try harder yourself!

mind the gap
07-09-2010, 10:57 AM
Of course I am in buisness just same as you are in your proffession to earn a living but dont tar us all with the same brush just because you have had a bad expirence.

Using your view point my school which was pretty crappy had a couple of teachers who were a bit too friendly with the some of the young kids does that make you same? Of course not? You are supposed to be a educated person pity you let yourself down with some of you comments it doesnt reflex well on you at all. Must try harder.

You seem here to have shot yourself in the foot, somewhat. My comments were a direct response to some of the ill-advised things written by you. You cannot on the one hand tell us that all letting agents are not as bad as the dodgy ones, whilst admitting you have yourself engaged in some of the very practices which make LLs and the public suspicious of you (e.g. derogating a LL's statutory duties to the T because you think you can get away with it, or ignoring the legal protocol for abandonment because it suits you better).

Incidentally I have not personally as a LL had 'a bad experience' with an agent, since I am very choosy about the management of my rental property. My inclination to avoid them stems primarily from the catalogue of incompetence which constitutes the Letting Agents' forum on this site, plus the experiences of friends, my children and my student tenants when renting elsewhere through agents. I also know several LLs who have reverted to self-managing because of the inefficiency and unjustifiably high charges of agents. They have a woeful reputation I'm afraid, and your defence of wrong practices will do nothing to improve it.

APM
06-10-2010, 13:56 PM
Hi everyone

I am looking for some clarification to whom the responsibility lies in regards to broken glass in an internal door. Is it Landlord or Tenant?

The tenant has replaced the glass in the door without consulting the landlord. This happened some time ago.

The tenant is now seeking monies from Landlord as it turns out the glass in the door was not toughend. Not sure why they are only now asking for this.

Is there a requirement to have toughend glass in internal doors (I know current regulations require this) as the glass door was already in the house prior to letting?

I don't want to fall out with tenant neither do I feel I should pay for their damage. There have been a number of problems lately which I have repaired at my expense but are questionable as to how they became broken.

Hope you can help.

A.

P.S Tenancy agreement states that tenant 'To repalce any broken window or door glass ......'

Jmoore11
06-10-2010, 15:49 PM
I think that if the door glass was replaced before you got there, you should not pay for its change!

But it´s true that you need it by regulation...to be safe


There is a lot of information on the web about this.

good luck with it!

mind the gap
06-10-2010, 20:13 PM
Not sure where the advice above is coming from...it's wrong.

In principle, organising repairs to fixtures and fittings is the LL's responsibility. However, if the T broke the glass (whether accidentally or deliberately), the cost of repair can be charged to him.

However, if T is correct in saying the glass should have been toughened/safety glass (or even 6mm glass as opposed to what was there before), then LL would be advised to bear the cost. Check with the tenancy dept. of the local council what thickness of glass is required in a door of that design.

Alternatively, this site may help you work out what is necessary/safe;

http://www.diydata.com/planning/glass/glass.php

thesaint
07-10-2010, 11:06 AM
The tenant is now seeking monies from Landlord as it turns out the glass in the door was not toughend. Not sure why they are only now asking for this.


Best to find this out first.

APM
13-10-2010, 19:49 PM
Many thanks for your replies.

I have managed to sort out the issue.

mind the gap
13-10-2010, 20:29 PM
Many thanks for your replies.

I have managed to sort out the issue.

That's good. Are you able to reveal how?

APM
15-10-2010, 11:04 AM
After taking some further advice I discussed the issue with the T we came to an amicable agreement about the glass.

APM

gullarm
15-10-2010, 21:28 PM
after taking some further advice i discussed the issue with the t we came to an amicable agreement about the glass.

Apm

amicable how........................................Im nosey

Mars Mug
15-10-2010, 21:30 PM
The landlord paid for the new glass and in return got to keep the old broken bits.

87ka11
05-12-2010, 20:05 PM
Hello

Im looking for some advice if possible please.

I live in short hold managed, which is managed by Your Move (we are unaware of the actual landlords details).

16 days ago some youths broke the front living room window by throwing two large bricks through it, the police have investigated but haven't been able to find out who did it.

I immediately contacted Your Moves's maintenance line and they send a glazier to board up the window within a few hours. But since nothing has been done about the broken window. I have been told that the double glazed unit for the window has been cut and is sitting in the glazers van ready to be fitted but he cannot attend the property because of the bad weather conditions, although there have only been 2 days in the past 2 weeks where the roads haven't been passable and are now completely clear of any snow or ice.

I have spoken to 2 other local glazers and they said they have no problem working in the snow or any other weather condition for that matter. I am also having to turn down work because I need to make sure there is someone in the property at all times because you can break into my house with a phillips screwdriver at the moment! Also the property is very cold and drafty meaning I have to run my heating all the time!

Could someone please give me advise on where I stand? I understand that if i had broken the window myself I would be responsible to repairing it, but as it was broken by vandals it will be covered by the landlords buildings insurance.

Thanks
Karl

Glenn Ackroyd
05-12-2010, 22:44 PM
It is the landlords duty to repair as it fails within the structure of the building. It should be remedied very quickly as it effects the security of the building! These agents are shocking. I would give them written notice that unless they deal with the repair within 72 hours, you will do so yourself and offset the cost from the next rent. Replacement glazing is a modest expense.

mind the gap
05-12-2010, 23:31 PM
@ Glenn : Please remove the footers from all your posts as they are advertising, which is contrary to forum rules. if you do not remove them the Moderator will - and probably you with them. For LLZ policy on advertising, please see:

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_advertising

Glenn Ackroyd
05-12-2010, 23:50 PM
Apologies - I was unaware and I've removed.

MrJohnnyB
06-12-2010, 10:36 AM
It is the landlords duty to repair as it fails within the structure of the building. It should be remedied very quickly as it effects the security of the building! These agents are shocking. I would give them written notice that unless they deal with the repair within 72 hours, you will do so yourself and offset the cost from the next rent. Replacement glazing is a modest expense.

If you actually do this you need to follow strict guidelines otherwise you face a hefty bill & legal courts when LL takes you to court. In any event 72 hours would undoubtedly be deemed unreasonable. You need multiple quotes - you need to have contacted them numerous times and shown that LL has acted unreasonably in not undertaking the work.

mind the gap
06-12-2010, 10:43 AM
It is the landlords duty to repair as it fails within the structure of the building. It should be remedied very quickly as it effects the security of the building! These agents are shocking. I would give them written notice that unless they deal with the repair within 72 hours, you will do so yourself and offset the cost from the next rent. Replacement glazing is a modest expense.

It is not quite so simple. Replacement custom-made double-glazed units (which is what OP needs) are not 'a modest expense' at all, and even if it were acceptable to put single glazing in (which it isn't), there is a protocol to be followed. OP cannot just get the job sorted himself and deduct from the rent. He must first give LL due notice and time to respond, then obtain 3 quotations in writing; he must communicate these to the LL and if LL still does not act within a certain time, then LL can instruct the repair. That does not seem practical here, though, given that the units are being made.

Paul_f
06-12-2010, 15:14 PM
If you actually do this you need to follow strict guidelines otherwise you face a hefty bill & legal courts when LL takes you to court. In any event 72 hours would undoubtedly be deemed unreasonable. You need multiple quotes - you need to have contacted them numerous times and shown that LL has acted unreasonably in not undertaking the work.It's -5°C out there and 72 hours is plenty of time. It's not Ts problem but Ls, and there would be no requirement by T to obtain several quotes (how long do you think this would take?). T does however first show that L is not responding.

mind the gap
06-12-2010, 15:17 PM
It's -5°C out there and 72 hours is plenty of time. It's not Ts problem but Ls, and there would be no requirement by T to obtain several quotes (how long do you think this would take?).

I agree that it is the LL's problem, however if the LL is doing nothing about it then T would still have to go through the correct procedure unless it were a case of life and limb being at risk. I would have thought a boarded up window was no more drafughty than a single glazed one, but in any case the fact remains that the LL has ordered a replacement double glazing unit so T will just have to wait for it to be fitted as any householder would. I agree with OP though that if the property can be broken into with a screwdriver, that's not acceptable. LL needs to improve the security while the unit is being made and if he does not do this, I would think T could do that (ie get his own joiner in to reinforce the boarding up) and deduct from rent.

The LL should after all be a bit more interested in the security of his property, should he not?

87ka11
07-12-2010, 14:44 PM
Thank you for all the replies

I have just received a text message from the glazier himself saying that he will be here tomorrow between 12 and 3 to fit the new glass. At least its getting done now, although 18 days since it was first broken seems like a very long time to wait, maybe yourmove should think about getting some more reliable contractors on their books.

Karl

swampydrill
21-12-2010, 07:40 AM
I got a tennant who has been a nuisance to the other tennants, he has a 1 bed flat and has had his music too loud and too many friends hanging around, i served hi with notice that i need him to leave or i will take him to court, he has had a few issues in the flat as well which his father has guaranteed to put right as he is the guanrantee, the boy has had 2 dealings with other tennants whereby the police have been called, on both occasions windows in this boys flat have been broken by the other tennants (so he says), the police say that it is one word against the other so not sure what is going to happen there, if the other residents don't get charged then who pays for the windows being broken

jta
21-12-2010, 08:10 AM
i served hi with notice that i need him to leave or i will take him to court,

You have to make your mind up, either serve the notice and carry it through or don't serve notice at all.

The broken windows? Get them fixed and deduct the cost from his deposit, don't forget to get receipts.

jjlandlord
21-12-2010, 08:33 AM
The broken windows? Get them fixed and deduct the cost from his deposit, don't forget to get receipts.

T did not break the window (at least he claims he did not and seems to have a police report about it), so unless it can be proven otherwise I believe that the LL is fully responsible for the repair.

jta
21-12-2010, 13:33 PM
T did not break the window (at least he claims he did not and seems to have a police report about it), so unless it can be proven otherwise I believe that the LL is fully responsible for the repair.

I disagree, if he has a crime number then he should claim from insurance, if not then hold the tenant responsible for the damage. Windows don't normally break themselves, if a guest of the tenant broke them then it's T's responsibility. 'tenant like manner' remember?

jjlandlord
21-12-2010, 13:48 PM
if a guest of the tenant broke them then it's T's responsibility.

Of course. But nowhere is mentioned that the window was broken by a guest.

I'm basing my reply on previous threads, e.g.:
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?34028-Broken-Window&highlight=broken+window
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?31682-Broken-window-who-s-responsible-for-repair-L-or-T&highlight=broken+window

but I admit I could be wrong.

Moderator1
21-12-2010, 14:22 PM
Several threads on the same topic (including the two mentioned in the previous post) have been merged here.

cymro123
11-05-2012, 15:35 PM
Broken window issue so I thought I would tag it onto the 'broken window' thread:

* Inventory (written and photographic) at start of tenancy show double-glazed window had no cracks.
* Window now has large crack.
* Upon looking closely at the broken panel it is clear that the window was stuck shut through excessive painting. It is possible that the tenant used brute force to open window causing it to crack.
* Tenant says it may have been caused by excessive temperatures and not his problem.

I appreciate windows are the responsibility of the L under S11 but given the above facts what would a reasonable settlement be on this? Opinions please.

Thanks in advance

thesaint
11-05-2012, 16:13 PM
Who painted the window?

cymro123
11-05-2012, 16:15 PM
Landlord painted window

thesaint
11-05-2012, 16:22 PM
So you think that the tenant was using the window as intended, but due to the landlord painting it incorrectly, it was subsequently broken?

cymro123
11-05-2012, 16:37 PM
So you think that the tenant was using the window as intended, but due to the landlord painting it incorrectly, it was subsequently broken?

I am sure when the window was orginally constructed it opened but over the years going back before the landlord bought the property the window had been painted shut with successive layers of paint. The landlord knew it didn't open and never tried to open it. I 'suspect' the tenant looked at the window 'assumed' it did open and gave it a good tug, breaking the glass. I can see where you are coming from though :-)

theartfullodger
11-05-2012, 16:58 PM
Reasonable settlement would be whatever the Judge decided.. I suspect he'd decide tenant acted reasonably, assumed window opened, not having been given written instruction to the contrary (and anyway he'd need to be able to get out if there were a fire..)

Personally,I'd IMMEDIATELY get window repaired @ LL expense and (perhaps..) gently hint to T would he like to contribute, but expect a curt "No, go forth & multiply..".

Cheers!

cymro123
11-05-2012, 17:03 PM
Good answer - many thanks