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Mitz
13-02-2008, 15:51 PM
My tenants moved out without paying previous 3 months rent :mad:
They also left the place in a mess: missing white goods, light fitting, carpets, built in cupboards.

I want to pursue them for the rent and damage/repairs. Can someone recommend a debt collection agent?

I have their forwarding address so the agent won't need to to looking.

jeffrey
13-02-2008, 16:23 PM
My tenants moved out without paying previous 3 months rent :mad:
They also left the place in a mess: missing white goods, light fitting, carpets, built in cupboards.

I want to pursue them for the rent and damage/repairs. Can someone recommend a debt collection agent?

I have their forwarding address so the agent won't need to to looking.

I have used Hunter Services (UK) Ltd. and it seems OK.
82 Castle Lane West, Bournemouth BH9 9JU
Telephone: 01202-516625

nellster100
14-02-2008, 12:19 PM
I would highly recommend:
Thornbury Collection Services Ltd
Thornbury House
Thornbury Close
Rhiwbina
Cardiff
CF14 1UT
0844 8000 236 ask for Peter Hopkins

AuntyEm74
18-02-2008, 19:22 PM
Hello
My nightmare tenant moved out a couple of weeks ago leaving a string of unpaid bills. I told the electricity company to change the bill into my name for 2 weeks and then into my new tenant's name - they say they have done this but can't set up the account properly until my new tenant has given meter readings. I have been round there tonight and she will call them with the readings tomorrow. But the debt collectors visited the flat in person today looking for the ex-tenant. They left a letter threatening disconnection and expensive reconnection charges. I left a message on the number given and will call them tomorrow too. I have already told them that the ex-tenant has left so I am not sure why they are pursuing her there- maybe the debt collecters were instructed before that. She didn't leave a forwarding address so I gave them her dad and sister's (her guarantor) addresses. Should I be worried that either:
a) they will cut supply, leaving my new tenant without service, or
b) I will get lumbered with the bill.
Hopefully it will get sorted tomorrow but I could so with some calming words tonight.
I text the tenant telling her to sort it but she will probably ignore it and refuses to give me a forwarding address.
Any advice?

Thanks
Emma

jeffrey
18-02-2008, 22:02 PM
It could not remotely be your fault if Utility Co. disconnects new T's service on [wrong] ground of previous T's arrears.
You as L would not have done anything wrong, and new T's gripe/action would be against Utility Co. (not against you).

PI Guy
20-02-2008, 10:14 AM
I would recommend Nick http://www.cred-x.co.uk/index.shtml

graham08
22-02-2008, 08:58 AM
A friend of mine used an online debt collection service, said it was fantastic to use and got really quick results. Ideal when you need the money back asap, you can find it here (http://www.debtcollectorsolution.com) :)

JackMacyntire
07-03-2008, 09:57 AM
I'm intrigued by the option of using debt collectors but I want to hear more success stories before taking the plunge.

In particular I want to know about the wisdom of using them while the tenant is still living in the property. Can I land in hot water for harassment? Is it better to wait until the tenant has been evicted?

Please Rodent1 and anyone else with experience fire away.

VueHomes
19-05-2008, 09:29 AM
I can recommend www.dfsdebt.com
I have used them in the past and still use them todate.
They come highly reccomended with a fast and effective services

Poppy
19-05-2008, 09:39 AM
VueHomes are you also known as speedy31 on the SingingPig forum? Why are you pushing dfsdebt so intently?

VueHomes
20-05-2008, 21:23 PM
I am just offering them as help to other company's as it is so rare to find a decent company I was really chuffed with their service provided after being ripped off by two other companies, this is only my advice after all. :)

tsu3000
08-07-2008, 11:08 AM
Hi

I recently had to serve notice on a problem tenant who was in rent arrears and also did not pay his utility bills. After he left the property, I spoke to the gas company and they said that its got nothing to do with me but to expect letters in the following months because it was their procedure. They also said to return all letters that were not specifically addressed to me.

Today I got a letter (addressed to "occupier") from a debt collection agency asking for details about the tenant and my contact details. Do I assist or do I take the advice from the gas co. and simply ignore it?

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks.

Poppy
08-07-2008, 11:11 AM
Well, is there anything you can actually tell the debt collector apart from the date the tenancy ended?

tsu3000
08-07-2008, 11:15 AM
Not really. I do not have a forwarding address for the tenant and his phone number doesn't work any more. Apart from proving that the property was rented by him by sending the agency a copy of the AST, I cannot give further info.

Poppy
08-07-2008, 11:24 AM
You've answered your own question.

Don’t let this cost you anything. Simply write on the letter they sent to you - "tenant moved out X date". Put it back in their envelope without a stamp, re-address it and let them pay to receive it. It's what I do.

If these agencies truly want to find someone let them use more considered methods.

Cem
08-07-2008, 11:33 AM
Here's I look at it.

If it were you who wanted to locate the tenant (who owes you money) and you requested the info. from a company who you knew had dealings with your tenant, would they give up this info? Doubt it!

Planner
08-07-2008, 11:35 AM
I thought debt collection letters addressed to the "Occupier" where against OFT debt collection regs?! I would be ringing trading standards rather than the debt collectors, unless of course you want to shop the former tenant.

Pelican eats pigeon
08-07-2008, 22:04 PM
I thought debt collection letters addressed to the "Occupier" where against OFT debt collection regs?! I would be ringing trading standards rather than the debt collectors, unless of course you want to shop the former tenant.

They can be occasionally useful, though. Neither my Landlord at the time nor I as a tenant had any idea the Bradford and Bingley were repossessing one of the previous properties I rented till one of these came through. We'd been passing all his post to the agent, but for some reason, they'd decided to put it all in a nice large folder and neglect to give it to him.

Cue much frantic scrabbling around on landlord's part.

Fozzy
08-10-2008, 11:45 AM
Can any help on this matter?

The tenants abandoned the property in August, owing rent of approx £800. The property has now been secured, notice left in the window to claim their remaining belongings etc. They have left me with a repairs to do which has cost me approx £1200. The tenants have appeared to have split up and one is known to live in the next town.

Can a debt collection agency be useful to reclaim the rent and repairs? Or is it better to go via the small claim court.

Many thanks.

sparkie
02-02-2009, 12:05 PM
Anyone used a one, with good results?

I think I'm gonna need one, so would be good to have a really good one on hand. Maybe even a no collect, no fee one if they exist.

thanks in advance

PaulF
02-02-2009, 12:46 PM
What's wrong with the courts?

jeffrey
02-02-2009, 13:04 PM
What's wrong with the courts?
Pin back your lug-holes; how long have you got?

MetropolitanAnthony
02-02-2009, 13:42 PM
Avoid "First Locate" www.1stlocate.com

PI Guy
02-02-2009, 13:56 PM
i can personally recommend;

Personal Information

Name: Steve White Location: Pontyclun, United Kingdom Email Address: steve.thornbury@tesco.net Telephone Number: 01443 224407 Website Address: http://www.thornburycollections.co.uk (http://www.thornburycollections.co.uk/)

jax2503
02-02-2009, 18:55 PM
Hi,

I can recommend SLC Collections, they operate a big door to door collectors area. A few of the guys there are also landlords so it does help that they realise that we are all not moneyless pits. They done a few deals for me and collects the debts fairly well. They will also issue the court papers on your behalf and assist with other things outwith there remit. They also offer a credit checking service. The guy there I deal with is Derek, his telephone number is 0191 616 6888

Lastly just when thinking the last 2 debts that they done for me they got the tenants a loan and released the funds in full to myself, so was a nice quick result.

If you need any details on them let me know.

Jax

redex
02-02-2009, 22:59 PM
Anyone used a one, with good results?

I think I'm gonna need one, so would be good to have a really good one on hand. Maybe even a no collect, no fee one if they exist.

thanks in advance

Didn't think such a thing existed, if there are any they certainly know nothing about the job and or about the can and can't dos'.

They all seem to have there own little laws that apply to no one else and are expert liars.

Haven't really had any dealings with these people as I don't like their manner very much.
I think any one that was to be mentioned here someone could put you off, best of luck.

mind the gap
02-02-2009, 23:04 PM
Didn't think such a thing existed, if there are any they certainly know nothing about the job and or about the can and can't dos'.

They all seem to have there own little laws that apply to no one else and are expert liars.

Haven't really had any dealings with these people as I don't like their manner very much.
I think any one that was to be mentioned here someone could put you off, best of luck.

We see your point, as through a glass darkly...

Rodent1
02-02-2009, 23:05 PM
i can personally recommend;

Personal Information

Name: Steve White Location: Pontyclun, United Kingdom Email Address: steve.thornbury@tesco.net Telephone Number: 01443 224407 Website Address: http://www.thornburycollections.co.uk (http://www.thornburycollections.co.uk/)


I have also used these guys, extremely good and personalised service.
They will explain how you pay nothing for service ..the T pays :)

The Rodent

Rodent1
02-02-2009, 23:34 PM
Didn't think such a thing existed,
Yep and some very good and efficient ones at that!



if there are any they certainly know nothing about the job and or about the can and can't dos'.
They all seem to have there own little laws that apply to no one else and are expert liars.

Wow ..these pearls of wisdom are no doubt based on the fact that:

1. You don't know they exist
2. As below:You have never had any dealings with any", never even heard of them probably and you yourself clearly dont know the first thing about them, the "rules" they operate under(licensed) or how they operate ??


Haven't really had any dealings with these people as I don't like their manner very much.



I think any one that was to be mentioned here someone could put you off, best of luck.


I would end with thanks for a completely ridiculous post BUT
you have made a very strong point, it is this:

The vast majority of people(like you) have a knee jerk, adverse reaction from preconceived ideas about the involvement of a Debt Collector, and a T with one on their case reacts just like you ...and wants absolutely NOTHING to do with one ....and so the very threat of using one sorts out arrears 99% of the time on the first hurdle !

If T is a bit more reticent to pay his dues, then hand over to DC (with T picking up collection fees) and this starts to get mighty expensive(for T-but with due warning) and T usually pays up on first contact from DC (by letter not a bit of 4bi2- contrary to popular opinion!!!)

Anyone considering using a DC ( a proper licensed one i mean, not Mr baseball bat and brother iron bar- fresh out of the steroid shop ) will find the above mentioned extremely open helpful and almost certainly fruitfull.
(i have no interest or connection with them other than being a happy client and knowing several other HC's)

Redex, in short your post was irresponsible, to say the least, as you clearly have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

I have posted on this topic at great length in the past, search for "debt collector" on this forum for some long and interesting threads on the subject.

I have in excess of 100 T at any time and have NEVER had to take any legal action, or go to court in my 15 years of being a LL. This used correctly as part of a properly thought out management system, is infinitely easier, quicker, cheaper, less stressful(to both LL and T) and far more efficient in everyway.

Being a LL is being in business, any one care to come up with any "proper business" that doesn't use /have a debt collection agency/dept/credit control dept etc ....

Bt,Bgas, cc co's just to get you started.

Question is : Why would you want to skip this vital step out of Debt Management and protract a situation to ridiculous time scales and costs by going straight to court ...and almost certainly increase T debt to an impossible amount that they REALLY cant pay ?

There are far easier and more sensible solutions to the problems that plague these boards on a daily basis.

I explain to my T wha will happen ...if you dont pay on time that's fine, but it wil become very expensive very quickly and here's why and how ........
This BEFORE they sign any AST...

The Rodent

sparkie
03-02-2009, 00:32 AM
Thanks to everyone who has responded with constructive advice and recommendations. Its very much appreciated

sparkie
03-02-2009, 00:35 AM
There are far easier and more sensible solutions to the problems that plague these boards on a daily basis.

I explain to my T wha will happen ...if you dont pay on time that's fine, but it wil become very expensive very quickly and here's why and how ........
This BEFORE they sign any AST...

The Rodent

Hi Rodent, this is very savvy. Do you have this in writing that you could you share?

Lawcruncher
03-02-2009, 01:18 AM
If T is a bit more reticent to pay his dues, then hand over to DC (with T picking up collection fees)

What is the legal basis for T paying the DC's fees?

jax2503
03-02-2009, 05:48 AM
Hi Lawcruncher,

I think so long as it is in the contract then you could pursue the debt recovery costs. I may be wrong in this one, no doubt someone will be along shortly to give us some satute law.

Jax

Findermonkey
03-02-2009, 09:04 AM
Have you considered using a trace company to trace any debtor and then getting a solicitor to send out a letter before action? Usually works, if you know the address of the debtor, obviously bypass the trace company and go straight to the letter before action.

A letter from a solicitor is going to be more effective than a letter from a DCA, in my opinion.

sparkie
03-02-2009, 10:55 AM
Have you considered using a trace company to trace any debtor and then getting a solicitor to send out a letter before action? Usually works, if you know the address of the debtor, obviously bypass the trace company and go straight to the letter before action.

A letter from a solicitor is going to be more effective than a letter from a DCA, in my opinion.

Know any good tracing companies? (and good solicitors for that matter)

Rodent1
03-02-2009, 11:53 AM
What is the legal basis for T paying the DC's fees?

If proceedure is clearly set out in AST and a LBA sent with time frame naming DC agency and fees (15% + any extra cost T decides to drum up) then this leaves T liable, if T is not informed informed before hand fees CANNOT be charged, not a legal bod so cannot quote chapter and verse on it, but taken advice from licensed DC agent, have also had it confirmed by several others.

Perhaps one of the legal eagles can confirm relevant statute ?

The Rodent

sparkie
03-02-2009, 12:07 PM
ummm, what does LBA stand for? also, can you shed any light re post #12

jta
03-02-2009, 12:11 PM
LBA =letter before action.

sparkie
03-02-2009, 12:12 PM
ahhh. Thanks!

Rodent1
03-02-2009, 12:17 PM
Hi Rodent, this is very savvy. Do you have this in writing that you could you share?


I do not use DC as a alone solution to debt management it is a small cog in a well oiled machine. My management system is built to attempt to deal with most problems and steps and measures are in place automatically b4 T even enters the prop.

Search some of my early threads for details like:
1. Proper and detailed referencing (not "just" a credit search , which is about as much use as txts on a bull on it's own) we need to know outgoings as well as income to verify that both T & G are in a financial position to perform their financial duties as such)
2. Having a very good file of background info on T(copy of Passport D/L as photo ID, next of kin details, car reg no, Ni no, alt addresses, contacts etc) if they dissappear i want to be able to find them!
3. Late payment fees, interest on o/s amounts, admin fees lots of things to deter late/ non payment.
4. A clear and "in place" system to deal with this problem wich is actioned promtly - so T clear that their priority payment is rent not pub etc.

It is rare that I need to go to far with these steps but they are there if/when i need them.
My general approach if sit starts to get out of control is to send LBA warning of impending action(DC) with associated costs detailed....then in same letter, offer to remove ALL extra costs on proviso a mutually agreed (and signed)payment plan is sumbitted immediately, also detailing that failure to adhere to plan will result in immediate involvement of DC and removal of cost discount.
Also at this point, as it is clear that they cannot afford to live at the prop i negotiate a fairly swift exit from the property in order to allow them to find somewhere they CAN afford, and extricate themselves and me from a financially undesirable situation. I do not charge them relet fees regardless of where we are with ast in this situation. I need them out fresh T and rent in ..and they need to be living somewhere they can afford.
Usually have them out "having surrendered the prop" within a week or 2 , a mth at most.
In several situations i have earned respect from T for being efficient and prompt with action by "forcefully" pulling their head out of the sand over rent problems early! and have moved them to cheaper props within my portfolio and they are still T of mine as i write ...and very good one's at that!

The challenge is to keep amicable communication channels open through out and get situation sorted before;
a. the debt is too large for T to service and head goes into the sand.
b. it gets to serving legal action as this, sure as eggs is eggs, will instantly cut all amicable comms instantly and make sure T debt is 2/3 months worth of rent bigger !

It is a system that has served me well over the years, as i have posted many times i have never been to court and hopefully will never need to.

Is every bit of it legally enforceable ? honestly dont know ! but so far have never had anyone challenge it, i cant see why it shouldn't be !

The Rodent

sparkie
03-02-2009, 12:45 PM
Thank you Rodent for taking the time to write and share. Its very much appreciated and valued. You should write a book. (I'm not kidding).

Is there a way to contact you off-site? I have a couple of questions that may be appropriate 0ff-forum.

Rodent1
03-02-2009, 13:27 PM
Just "private message" me (click on "Rodent1" above)


The Rodent

Rodent1
03-02-2009, 13:49 PM
Further to the above:

A long, but interesting thread on use of DC
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=7553&highlight=bonkers (http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=7553&highlight=bonkers)

mind the gap
03-02-2009, 14:03 PM
Redex, in short your post was irresponsible, to say the least, as you clearly have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

So I am not the only one to have spotted this...

Lawcruncher
03-02-2009, 17:37 PM
It is a system that has served me well over the years

You certainly seem to have an efficient management system in place and appear to deal with your tenant's firmly, but fairly. I am sure that if you come across as a no nonsense person this has to help - psychology has to play its part. However, I fear there is danger in believing that because a system has worked, and worked well, that it must be based on sound legal principles, although to be fair you concede that that may not be the case. Without you telling us what is in your agreements and what exactly it is you say to your defaulting tenants it is impossible to comment further.

I am only interested in the narrow point of whether a landlord can recover the fees of a DCA.

We can first of all say with certainty that if the terms of the tenancy are silent about costs associated with the recovery of rent that the only costs a landlord can recover are those allowed by the court.

If the terms say that legal costs may be recovered then there has to be some doubt that that includes the fees of a DCA.

But suppose the terms say that all costs may be recovered or specifically refer to the fees of a DCA?

First of all I think we can say that the costs must be reasonable and reasonably incurred.

Secondly, the term is an agreement for indemnity. Nothing is due until the costs are incurred. If the DCA is engaged on the basis that their fee is a percentage of what they recover or is only payable on the basis that they recover something, no fee is payable until something has been recovered. Accordingly no fee is payable at the time the DCA makes its demand for the oustanding rent. Since no fee is payable it cannot be demanded at the time the rent is demanded. Indeed, it cannot be payable or demanded until all or some of the rent has been paid. If and when it is paid, the fee immediately beomes payable by the landlord to the DCA. The DCA cannot recover the fee from the tenant since they have no contract with the tenant. Once the fee has been paid, the indemnity kicks in. If the tenant declines to pay, there is then a debt that the landlord can instruct the DCA to recover, though he cannot yet instruct the DCA to recover their fee for collecting that debt.

It follows from all this that a clued up tenant faced with a demand from a DCA will enquire as to the basis on which the DCA get their fee. If he discovers that it is on a "no win, no fee" basis, he will not pay, because simply by paying he will owe more.

Ericthelobster
03-02-2009, 18:05 PM
It follows from all this that a clued up tenant faced with a demand from a DCA will enquire as to the basis on which the DCA get their fee. If he discovers that it is on a "no win, no fee" basis, he will not pay, because simply by paying he will owe more.I'm not with you - what difference does it make how the DCA gets their fee, if it's going to be charged back to the tenant anyway? ie, what's the point in asking?

Izzycam
03-02-2009, 18:16 PM
Good advice,PI Guy and Rodent.

Rodent1
03-02-2009, 18:57 PM
Have you considered using a trace company to trace any debtor and then getting a solicitor to send out a letter before action? Usually works, if you know the address of the debtor, obviously bypass the trace company and go straight to the letter before action.

A letter from a solicitor is going to be more effective than a letter from a DCA, in my opinion.


In your opinion OR in your experience ?
The threat of a solicitors letter -v- threat of DC involvement.
Which one to have greatest effect?

I know what my educated(thru experience!) opinion is ;)


The Rodent

Lawcruncher
03-02-2009, 19:10 PM
I'm not with you - what difference does it make how the DCA gets their fee, if it's going to be charged back to the tenant anyway? ie, what's the point in asking?

In a situation where the tenant is liable to pay the fees of a DCA and where:

1. The DCA's fee is payable if and only if rent is recovered by the DCA

and

2. No rent is recovered

Then,

No fee is payable.

If no fee is payable there is nothing in the way of fees to recover from the tenant.

Paying the rent to the DCA makes the fee payable and recoverable from the tenant.

Why should a sensible tenant pay the DCA and incur expense, when by not paying no expense is incurred?

Rodent1
03-02-2009, 21:05 PM
In a situation where the tenant is liable to pay the fees of a DCA and where:

1. The DCA's fee is payable if and only if rent is recovered by the DCA

and

2. No rent is recovered

Then,

No fee is payable.

If no fee is payable there is nothing in the way of fees to recover from the tenant.

Paying the rent to the DCA makes the fee payable and recoverable from the tenant.

Why should a sensible tenant pay the DCA and incur expense, when by not paying no expense is incurred?

Not paying in a timely manner will incur a "larger collection fee" by drumming up DC time effoerts and overheads as expenses i guess (on top of the fee maybe?) and more interest accumulating on a daily basis, to bury head in sand and use logic of "just dont pay it it will be cheaper" clearly wont help sit as the final outcome will be court and all the fees and costs associated with this on top when T loses.

If a T asked me to clarify the sit i would just say "I have no idea how they are able to this, but once they have the case, i'm sure they will be very happy to explain it to you !"

I do not profess to understand the legalities of this as this is DC charging system, would be interested to clear this point up tho !
Once Debt is passed to DC, 15% is chargeable by DC, it is then up to DC just how far and long he decides to pursue the case..(apparently?)

I really only get to "illustration stage" ie breakdown of what the cost will be "next" week,should i pass case over to DC (inc late payment fees, admin fees, interest on bal and 15% Dc fee) then as a shining Knight show them the one and only way to avoid this sit and have all MY fees removed as well, is just pay the basic O/S rent fig ....simple carrot and stick psychology really nothing too clever!

Ericthelobster
03-02-2009, 21:40 PM
In a situation where the tenant is liable to pay the fees of a DCA and where [...]
Why should a sensible tenant pay the DCA and incur expense, when by not paying no expense is incurred?Sure, I follow that - but what I'm getting at is how else would a DCA receive their fee, other than as 'no win no fee' so as to render the tenant not liable to pay it?

Rodent1
03-02-2009, 23:59 PM
Hi Rodent, this is very savvy. Do you have this in writing that you could you share?

Further reading on "Well Oiled Machine" Here :

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=7947&highlight=debt+collector

Post 25 then 24 ! in particular

A search for debt collector using rodent1 as user will find you most of what you have asked for from me !!!

When you have read that lot i wont need to write the book ;)

The Rodent

Paul Gibbs
04-02-2009, 07:44 AM
Much will depend on the wording within the tenancy agreement, and I agree broadly with Lawcruncher's comments.

Essentially when the DC says to T how much is owed he is adding on his costs. IF DC is operating under a no pay no fee basis then the letter from DC is correct that IF T pays now then the fees of DC would be recoverable.

What if T does not pay?

If T does not pay and DC writes again saying that the outstanding amount has increased this again is correct, but ONLY if T pays. The nature of the agreement DC has with L is that DC's fees are only payable on a successful recovery. This means that if T does not pay then should L or DC bring a court claim for the rent plus DC's costs the element that relates to DC's costs would not be recoverable as DC's actions were not successful.

So Lawcruncher is saying that if the T was aware of the manner in which DC gets paid there is no incentive for T to pay as he has to pay more. This leaves the L with only the option of legal action and as soon as the claim is issued T could pay (and L could not recover DC's fees).

This really is a moot point to some degree as if the DC fails to recover money then L is not liable for DC's costs (so L does not lose out)

The problem for T is that he does not know how DC gets paid - DC is unlikely to disclose the funding arrangement.

If DC's manage to get payment then great - but if they dont then L has to consider court action - the time of involving DC would delay that claim.

Each option of enforcement has pro's and con's. Solicitors threatening legal proceedings and the resulting CCJ will only influence a T if they have a reasonably good credit history.

Bel
04-02-2009, 08:28 AM
Some interesting legal arguments.

Question: if DC is instructed to collect debt and T pays (or attempts to pay) LL direct afterwards, where does this leave DC?
Is LL not allowed to accept?

If LL is not allowed to accept payment of the debt by terms of DC contract, then by LL not accepting rent from tenant, surely a court would recognise that it's the LL's action that has kept tenant 'in arrears' so a section 8 claim for possession/money judgement would fail?

jeffrey
04-02-2009, 09:13 AM
Some interesting legal arguments.

Question: if DC is instructed to collect debt and T pays (or attempts to pay) LL direct afterwards, where does this leave DC?
Is LL not allowed to accept?

If LL is not allowed to accept payment of the debt by terms of DC contract, then by LL not accepting rent from tenant, surely a court would recognise that it's the LL's action that has kept tenant 'in arrears' so a section 8 claim for possession/money judgement would fail?
L must be allowed to accept T's rent! A deal between L and DCA does not bind T, and- after all- the rent ultimately belongs to L.

Ericthelobster
04-02-2009, 09:31 AM
if DC is instructed to collect debt and T pays (or attempts to pay) LL direct afterwards, where does this leave DC?
Wouldn't this be analagous to instructing the sale of a house through an estate agent, and then trying to avoid paying the commission by negotiating a sale directly with a buyer (which the agent's T&Cs would almost certainly prevent)?

ie, if L has warned T that a DC will be instructed (at T's cost) if T doesn't cough up by a certain date; then T cannot circumvent any DC fees by paying the LL direct after the cut-off date (provided it's all covered by the LL-T and DC-LL T&Cs of course)?

Bel
04-02-2009, 09:43 AM
Wouldn't this be analagous to instructing the sale of a house through an estate agent, and then trying to avoid paying the commission by negotiating a sale directly with a buyer (which the agent's T&Cs would almost certainly prevent)?

ie, if L has warned T that a DC will be instructed (at T's cost) if T doesn't cough up by a certain date; then T cannot circumvent any DC fees by paying the LL direct after the cut-off date (provided it's all covered by the LL-T and DC-LL T&Cs of course)?

Further to my post 35

It would be my feeling that the AST would have to specifically allow for this (if T doesn't cough up by a certain date; then T cannot circumvent any DC fees by paying the LL direct after the cut-off date ) to happen to even stand a chance.

But even so, can the TA bind the tenant to that extent. Can the right of the T to be able to pay the LL rent direct, be contracted out of? In the same way that a LL cannot contract out of certain safety checks and repairs? Would the clause be void?

BTL Novice
20-04-2009, 11:05 AM
I have obtained a court order for former tenant arrears. Can anyone recommend a good debt collection agency?
Thanks

PI Guy
21-04-2009, 22:54 PM
http://www.thornburycollections.co.uk/

tubbs
13-08-2009, 16:30 PM
hi people

have a T who basically done a runner or technically gave up the tenancy by leaving. Anyway they left owing £610 in rent, the £550 bond was supposed to pay that to which i agreed assuming there was no damage. However on inspection of the property there was damage done, basically to the tune of £500. therefore after deductiong the deposit (should my claim for that go smoothly) the T would still owe me £560, I have tried tirelessly to contact T but they have simply ran off with forwarding address and basically have no intention of paying any money, they simply refuse to return my calls.

My main point is... is it worth chasing this debt of £560 throught the courts? My thought is no, which goes against the grain because why should they get away with it, I'm sure many have been in this spot before, but does it make financial sense to chase it? Could i do it all myself without involving solicitors? Though i wouldnt know where to start, plus they have not paid a penny in council tax so I doubt that i'd get it back anyway as I'm not the only one after them.

Even if I choose not to chase them officially I do intend to try and track them down and chase them personally, but I just dont know if its worth going down the official route.

Thanks

westminster
13-08-2009, 16:46 PM
Was it an AST and if so, was the deposit protected? - it sounds like it but just checking...
Can you prove the T caused the damage? - did you have an inventory carried out at commencement of tenancy?
You say "they have simply ran off with forwarding address" - do you mean they gave you a valid forwarding address which is their new residential address?
Is T employed, and do you know their employer details?

tubbs
13-08-2009, 17:17 PM
Was it an AST and if so, was the deposit protected? - it sounds like it but just checking...
Can you prove the T caused the damage? - did you have an inventory carried out at commencement of tenancy?
You say "they have simply ran off with forwarding address" - do you mean they gave you a valid forwarding address which is their new residential address?
Is T employed, and do you know their employer details?


the AST had ran out so was in a periodic, no notice was actually given, just the T saying by text they were hopin to move out an such an such date, which was fine by me as wanted shot, despite trying i never got anything signed from them as they simply avoided me at all costs, even the changeover never happened as i simply got a text saying house is empty and keys through the door. she prob didnt want to meet as I would have noticed the state of the place. deposit is protected and agent trying to contact T but so far with no luck, now trying their bank, hopefully i will get eventually.

the inventory was carried out and left with T to sign on moving in, but they didnt pay rent from day one so they avoided me at all costs tbh and although got most of rent it was through bank or meets with her boyfriend etc and never at the house, I'm afraid no inventory was recovered. The things I can prove with witness statements from neighbours if necessary was that she had cats in the house which was against the terms and without my consent, the biggest damage is the lounge carpet having to be completly replaced due to heavy cat urine, professional cleaning did not fix it and as last resort had to replace. other things such as damage to kitchen cushion floor and damaged blinds I guess without the inventory would be difficult to prove, but of course I will ahve receipts to prove they have been replaced.

Sorry typo! they have ran off with NO forwarding address, just left with a lot of unpaid bills, and they think that as long as i dont know where they live then stuff me kind of thing.

I know they work for an agency and where too. was hoping to use that info to track down where she has moved to, bit detective work!

tubbs
14-08-2009, 13:21 PM
any more thoughts westminster?

westminster
14-08-2009, 14:07 PM
deposit is protected and agent trying to contact T but so far with no luck, now trying their bank, hopefully i will get eventually. When you claim back the deposit from the protection scheme, include the unpaid rent in the claim as that much is 100% provable.


the inventory was carried out and left with T to sign on moving in, but they didnt pay rent from day one so they avoided me at all costs tbh and although got most of rent it was through bank or meets with her boyfriend etc and never at the house, I'm afraid no inventory was recovered.
Was the inventory carried out by a professional inventory firm, with photos? If so, the signature of the tenant is less crucial.


The things I can prove with witness statements from neighbours if necessary was that she had cats in the house which was against the terms and without my consent, the biggest damage is the lounge carpet having to be completly replaced due to heavy cat urine, professional cleaning did not fix it and as last resort had to replace. You may have enough evidence to show replacement was necessary. You'd need the carpet cleaners to confirm it was not cleanable. However, you couldn't claim 100% value of the replacement, as the carpet was not new in the first place. You would need to claim for the remaining life of the carpet - so, for example, if it was 2.5 years old, and you'd normally expect to have to replace it after 5 years, then claim for 50% of the cost of replacement.


other things such as damage to kitchen cushion floor and damaged blinds I guess without the inventory would be difficult to prove, but of course I will ahve receipts to prove they have been replaced. Proof of replacement is not proof that T damaged them.


Sorry typo! they have ran off with NO forwarding address, just left with a lot of unpaid bills, and they think that as long as i dont know where they live then stuff me kind of thing. Any unpaid utility bills are not your responsibility. If the T didn't put the accounts in their name, send a copy of the tenancy agreement to the utilities company to prove T's liability.


I know they work for an agency and where too. was hoping to use that info to track down where she has moved to, bit detective work! With agency details and bank details, this should be sufficient for a tracing agency to find them. If you serve a claim on T, it must be sent to their current residential address. Alternatively, it may be served in person (i.e. handed to them) by a process server if you know where the T is likely to be.

In answer to your original question, is it worth it for £560? Yes, but only if you can prove the liability for the damage (and it's not certain you can), and the T is employed. When it comes to enforcement, they can be ordered to pay in installments, or have the installments deducted from their wages.

You don't need a solicitor to issue a claim. If you obtain T's residential address, firstly send T a letter before action, advising her she owes £x and has X days to pay. Then, after X days pass without payment, you can issue a claim online at https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp
(the online form is tiny, so just give concise details of dates of tenancy, breakdown of rent owed & cost of damage. you get the opportunity to give full details later in proceedings. court fee can be added to the claim).

It may be worth buying a book on the small claims track procedure, like this (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Small-Claims-Procedure-Practical-Guide/dp/1858113946/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1250258275&sr=8-1) - even if you don't issue a claim this time, it's worth knowing how it works.

Neil75
14-08-2009, 22:14 PM
iv just gone thru the small claims procedure and then paid for baylifs, complete waste of time. all the ex tenant has to do is not answer the door and the baylifs reports "unable to contact at address"

waste of time & money

Rodent1
14-08-2009, 22:19 PM
Is former T in postion to pay when you do track them down or "man of straw"?

If they any assets or income then go get it if not, still go get it you can keep chasing for 6 yrs min!

Neil75
14-08-2009, 22:48 PM
does a small claim award last for 6 years?

jeffrey
16-08-2009, 20:37 PM
For any contract, the Limitation Act 1980 period is six years from the cause of action (i.e. from when the right to sue arose).
I imagine that this applies to enforcement of a Court Order too, unless the CPR provide otherwise.

rich hand
20-08-2009, 15:45 PM
I have come to the conculsion that if tenants are going to pay, it would done before a CCJ is issued which is obviously before the bailiffs stage. Once the bailiffs are brought in forget it, the tenant has the CCJ and has nothing more to lose. They simply hide behind close doors and the courts let them win.

Taking it a stage further ie. to gain employment details and an attachment of earnings, this could be fiddly and maybe the tenant hasn't got any money anyway in which case the courts let them win again by paying you next to nothing monthly. This then collapses if the tenants changes employment.

Using private debt collectors is no better either, I sent mine 10 debts to chase and months later they have also shown to be powerless.

I suppose the best way is to check potential tenants thoroughly and to avoid the parasites in the first place.

Ash1
29-06-2010, 14:39 PM
Sadly in the last 6 months Ive had two flats not pay rent. Ive done the Court thing and the good news is that my flats have been vacated.

The whole thing has made me ill and I now need to get a third party to collect (or try to collect) the money owed to me.

Can anyone recommend a good debt collection agency or solicitor in the Bournemouth area? Ideally one on a no win no fee basis.

Julie

jeffrey
29-06-2010, 14:43 PM
Solicitors: try Lester Aldridge (01202-786161 or http://www.lesteraldridge.com).
Ask for Sarah Brown, with whom I've dealt satisfactorily on various transactions. Her e-mail address is sarah.brown@LA-law.com.

Snorkerz
29-06-2010, 15:49 PM
Sadly in the last 6 months Ive had two flats not pay rent. Ive done the Court thing and the good news is that my flats have been vacated.

The whole thing has made me ill and I now need to get a third party to collect (or try to collect) the money owed to me.

Can anyone recommend a good debt collection agency or solicitor in the Bournemouth area? Ideally one on a no win no fee basis.

Julie

I have dealt with, but never employed, a firm called "Jack Russell" who will do no-win-no-fee on certain jobs. Google them.

Ash1
30-06-2010, 11:08 AM
Thank you both, I shall check them out

joe p
17-10-2010, 08:57 AM
Has anyone had any dealings with debt colection firms as i;ve had a couple and they were not very succesfull as they seem to take your money then tell you that they have found them but canot do any more after telling you they will definitley can

Snorkerz
17-10-2010, 10:34 AM
Has anyone had any dealings with debt colection firms as i;ve had a couple and they were not very succesfull as they seem to take your money then tell you that they have found them but canot do any more after telling you they will definitley canAny debt collection firm can only have real sucess with a court order for the debt - which they will charge you to get.

You can do exactly the same yourself and then use the court bailiffs to recover your money.