Lease to property-management company which sublets

[platforminc]

Hi All,

I have a leasing arrangement with a property management company, this arrangement has been on for almost 2 years but recently I have had problems with the tenant living at the property, so much so that the freeholders are threatening to take the matter to court, after a lot of dirty wrangling. I informed the agent that they have since been sacked and that the property be returned back to me, since I have informed them about the troublesome tenant for almost a year and they have done nothing about it, by the way the letting agent gets tenants from the council and the flat is sued as a temporary accommodation for such people.

Now, the situation is that the freeholders got in touch with the agency; they informed freeholders that I am tied into them for 3 years, then freeholders decided to issue a section 146 notice, so that they can seek to determine the lease should any more problems occur. On going to read the agreement signed with the agents, I noticed that the agreement doesn’t favour me at all, it places each and every responsibility on the landlord and doesn’t give them any responsibilities at all, it uses phrases like

“the landlord agrees to pay all taxes, legal, professional fees relating to the property etc” In effect, they do not have any legal responsibilities, yet they are giving me a change on what they get from the housing benefit rent amount. The freeholders have served a section 146 notice which comes with legal fees amount, now to cover myself one year ago when the problem with the tenant started, I wrote them a letter stating they they should evict the tenant and that should the freeholders decide to take any actions, they will be footing the bill. I didn’t get a response back from them stating that they disagree. They are also stating that in the agreement, there is a clause stating that I agree to pay all legal, professional fees etc.

There is also a clause in the agreement stating that they will be vetting tenants brought to them by the council. In a recent email, when I pointed out that fact they stated that they couldn’t vet tenants as that would be against the councils anti discrimination procedures, now I am thinking those 2 statements contradicts each other, in the agreement they claimed that they will vet tenants, now verbally and on email they are saying that its not possible for them to refuse tenant etc.

My main problem now is that I feel hard done paying the legal costs.

Any ideas as to what I can do?

Kind regards

[jeffrey]

Your post is a bit unclear. Do you actually own a long-leasehold estate, and is the property a house or a flat?

[platforminc]

Just to also add, I will like to know whether its worth pursuing a small claims against the agent in order to recover the cost of the legal fees, also in a court of law will the agreement have any leg to stand on ? I have signed agreements with a council directly and I think the agreements are fair, they are about 8 pages or so, it sets out the responsibilities of each party and cases where the agreement can be determined. The agreement in question is just a page or so.

[platforminc]

Your post is a bit unclear. Do you actually own a long-leasehold estate, and is the property a house or a flat?

I am a leaseholder who owns a flat, now this flat has been let out to a letting agency on a long term arrangement i.e a lease.

Let me know if you require any more info.

[thesaint]

There is also a clause in the agreement stating that they will be vetting tenants brought to them by the council. In a recent email, when I pointed out that fact they stated that they couldn’t vet tenants as that would be against the councils anti discrimination procedures, now I am thinking those 2 statements contradicts each other, in the agreement they claimed that they will vet tenants, now verbally and on email they are saying that its not possible for them to refuse tenant etc.


Can you explain further?

[jeffrey]

I am a leaseholder who owns a flat, now this flat has been let out to a letting agency on a long term arrangement i.e a lease.
If you sub-let to the Agency which sub-underlets to T, your sub-letting to the Agency is not within the Housing Act 1988.

[platforminc]

If you sub-let to the Agency which sub-underlets to T, your sub-letting to the Agency is not within the Housing Act 1988.

Thanks for clarifying this.
In this case now, what should my next course of action be now, as the Letting agents are saying they are not paying the charges, and right now I'm trying to be as diplomatic as possible just to get the tenant out, they have said that once the tenant leaves, they are willing to hand the property back and cancel contract.

[jeffrey]

If your own T (= Agent) is in default, you terminate your letting contract that T holds and- if necessary- make a claim for breach of contract.
The occupant is not your T so he's not your problem but the Agent's. You cannot evict the occupant- you have no contract with him.

[platforminc]

If your own T (= Agent) is in default, you terminate your letting contract that T holds and- if necessary- make a claim for breach of contract.
The occupant is not your T so he's not your problem but the Agent's. You cannot evict the occupant- you have no contract with him.

In terms of default, in the agreement the default I can see here is that they said they would verify the tenants, when they knew technically they couldn't. Would you treat that as a default ?

I wrote to them last year saying that if the situation does get to this stage, where the freeholder is taking legal matters, they will be footing the cost. No reply from them since last year, now the worse has happened. where do i stand.

On the contract, it gives them little or no responsibility/liability.

[jeffrey]

Why did you not include (in the Letting Agreement granted to A) an obligation to comply with all restrictive covenants binding you as long-leaseholder?

[platforminc]

Why did you not include (in the Letting Agreement granted to A) an obligation to comply with all restrictive covenants binding you as long-leaseholder?

With hindsight, this is something that i could have done. But the agreement was given to myself by the agent. I didnt draw up the agreement.

[jeffrey]

And did you not take legal advice about it either?

[platforminc]

And did you not take legal advice about it either?

Correct. :mad:
Anything i can do now ?

[jeffrey]

Correct.
Anything i can do now ?
Not a lot, no.

[platforminc]

Not a lot, no.

One thing though is that on the agreement. it says that the agency will check the tenants coming into the property i.e sent from the council. Clearly, this hasn't been done and doesnt correspond to what they had already told me before (i have this in writing) that they cant vetting any tenant from the council as this could lead to discrimination.

The fact that these facts are inconsistent, does that not give me any form of rights as well to make a point on this.

[jeffrey]

Maybe. If they have broken their contract with you, you will have rights to claim compensatory damages (for any loss that you've provably suffered).

[Always Problems]

Correct. :mad:
Anything i can do now ?

I would be "pro-active" Its your flat. What do the Americans say "If you have a problem, you throw money at it, and the problem goes away"
Your Agents are acting on your behalf. You need to act on your behalf.
I would consider going round to the Flat and having a word with the Tenant who perhaps knows that he will be leaving. I would say that on the day that they are leaving you will give them £200 in Cash if you can be there and they hand the keys to you. That way you will have taken possession.
This must be a cheaper way than spending fortunes on legal fees and all the hassle. You may perhaps need to say that you want to live there yourself, whatever. Perhaps to the Council supplied tenant £200 (or more ?)would be a very welcome suggestion. You will obviously say to the tenant that nobody apart from you and them will know about this arrangement.

[platforminc]

Thanks for the update, I did take this approach as well and I have a meeting scheduled with the tenant to talk about outstanding matters, he was quite sympathetic of my case and has told me that the council are working towards rehousing him. So during the meeting I will get an update and also a contact number as well, so as to be on top of things.

[Snorkerz]

I would be "pro-active" Its your flat. What do the Americans say "If you have a problem, you throw money at it, and the problem goes away"
Your Agents are acting on your behalf. You need to act on your behalf.
I would consider going round to the Flat and having a word with the Tenant who perhaps knows that he will be leaving. I would say that on the day that they are leaving you will give them £200 in Cash if you can be there and they hand the keys to you. That way you will have taken possession.
This must be a cheaper way than spending fortunes on legal fees and all the hassle. You may perhaps need to say that you want to live there yourself, whatever. Perhaps to the Council supplied tenant £200 (or more ?)would be a very welcome suggestion. You will obviously say to the tenant that nobody apart from you and them will know about this arrangement.OP is not the tenants landlord and as such, tenant will have to give keys to his landlord, not OP. I would say that even with an offer of £200, a clever tenant could turn this into a harassment / intimidation / illegal eviction case - especially one on Legal Aid who doesn't have to worry about solicitors bills.

[platforminc]

Just to clarify, no money is involved here. I am just having a gentlemans conversation with the tenant and nothing more. During my last meeting with him, I showed him the legal notice and pages of complaints against him, so he seemed reasonable.

I hope it stays that way, as most of these tenants under such schemes etc are unpredictable for obvious reasons eg drugs .

[Snorkerz]

Just to clarify, no money is involved here. I am just having a gentlemans conversation with the tenant and nothing more. During my last meeting with him, I showed him the legal notice and pages of complaints against him, so he seemed reasonable.

I hope it stays that way, as most of these tenants under such schemes etc are unpredictable for obvious reasons eg drugs .In post #19 I wasn't suggesting you were doing anything illegal - although as they are not your tenants, the agency may have a problem with you dealing with the occupier. HOWEVER, just because you are not doing anything illegal does not mean that a 'professional tenant' with nothing to lose could not cause you considerable trouble by making claims against you.

You have a contract with the agency. Enforce that. I would strongly suggest you keep clear of the tenant and thus force the agency to deal with the matter. Obviously, if they don't, then you will be looking to them for damages for your losses.

[platforminc]

Hi All,

If I have a contract which looking at it properly now, doesnt cover me at all, is there some other kind of law which overrides such contracts. My Agent is taking me for a ride and the contract is so flawed that it doesnt protect me now.

[jeffrey]

No. You are an adult. You are bound by what you agree. Why did you not read it (and, if necessary, take legal advice) before agreeing?
Exception: if you can prove to a Court that the matter falls within the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

[platforminc]

ok, how about recovering things like costs ?

[Snorkerz]

Who do you want to recover them from?